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proving evolution as just a "theory"

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joshua 1 9

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And I asked what Creationist theory explains the fossil record?
Traditionally that would have been attempted by OEC. Unless of course you want to have a talk with Dr Dino and his version of YEC or maybe the appearance of age group may want to chime in. Gerolds Schroeder's OEC would have each age/day half the length of the day/age before it. Then Schroeder goes back 1,000 years to a famous kabbalah Rabbi to show that his modern day theory is not tainted by modern sciences and the current natural evidence we are working with. Of course Charles Lyell the father of geology was a creationist.

We have gradualism, uniformism and catastrophic theory. They would say that gradual uniform events created the record then catastrophic events exposed that record for us to examine today.
 
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joshua 1 9

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If each of these creatures was created separately over the course of hundreds of millions of years it's almost an unbelievable coincidence that they are (without exception) in the sequence that we would expect to see if evolution were true.
According to Harvard Professor Gould's punctuated equilibrium:

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The theory that new species evolve suddenly over relatively short periods of time (a few hundred to a thousand years), followed by longer periods in which little genetic change occurs. Punctuated equilibrium is a revision of Darwin's theory that evolution takes place at a slow, constant rate over millions of years. Compare gradualism.
 
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_-iconoclast-_

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Okay, I've missed that in conversation then...

Cool! :D

Whats up doc!!!

Hey my friend, im 3/4s done. Sorry for these delays but i dont usually have to reply to such a vast post.

Cheers. I hope you are safe and had a great day :)
 
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Jimmy D

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What needs clarified? Every fossil of T-Rex remains the same from the youngest to the oldest found. Not a single solitary fossil shows evidence of evolution. Each one is distinct and remains that way for every one you can find.

When is a T-rex not a T-rex? When it's Tyrannosaurus bataar.

Tyrannosaurus is the type genus of the superfamily Tyrannosauroidea, the family Tyrannosauridae, and the subfamily Tyrannosaurinae; in other words it is the standard by which paleontologists decide whether to include other species in the same group. Other members of the tyrannosaurine subfamily include the North American Daspletosaurus and the Asian Tarbosaurus,[66][67] both of which have occasionally been synonymized with Tyrannosaurus.[29][page needed] Tyrannosaurids were once commonly thought to be descendants of earlier large theropods such as megalosaurs and carnosaurs, although more recently they were reclassified with the generally smaller coelurosaurs.[28]



Diagram showing the differences between a generalized Tarbosaurus (A) and Tyrannosaurus (B) skull
In 1955, Soviet paleontologist Evgeny Maleev named a new species, Tyrannosaurus bataar, from Mongolia.[68] By 1965, this species had been renamed Tarbosaurus bataar.[69] Despite the renaming, many phylogenetic analyses have found Tarbosaurus bataar to be the sister taxon of Tyrannosaurus rex,[67] and it has often been considered an Asian species of Tyrannosaurus.[28][70][71] A recent redescription of the skull of Tarbosaurus bataar has shown that it was much narrower than that of Tyrannosaurus rex and that during a bite, the distribution of stress in the skull would have been very different, closer to that of Alioramus, another Asian tyrannosaur.[72] A related cladistic analysis found that Alioramus, not Tyrannosaurus, was the sister taxon of Tarbosaurus, which, if true, would suggest that Tarbosaurus and Tyrannosaurus should remain separate.[66] The discovery and description of Qianzhousaurus would later disprove this and revealed that Alioramus belonged to the clade Alioramini.[73][74] The discovery of the tyrannosaurid Lythronax further indicates that Tarbosaurus and Tyrannosaurus are closely related, forming a clade with fellow Asian tyrannosaurid Zhuchengtyrannus, with Lythronax being their sister taxon.[75][76] A further study from 2016 by Steve Brusatte, Thomas Carr et al., also indicates Tyrannosaurus may have been an immigrant from Asia, as well as a possible descendent of Tarbosaurus. The study further indicates the possibility that Tyrannosaurus may have driven other tyrannosaurids that were native to North America extinct through competition.[77] Other finds in 2006 indicate giant tyrannosaurs may have been present in North America as early as 75 million years ago. Whether or not this specimen belongs to Tyrannosaurus rex, a new species of Tyrannosaurus, or a new genus entirely is still unknown.[78]

LOL.

There were tens of thousands of peer reviewed papers saying the Milky-Way was the entire universe too.

Good to see that scientists aren't dogmatic in what they accept.

There were peer reviewed papers about the coelacanth too, until we actually found a living one and tested its DNA tho. Funny how we don’t hear anything about the transitional colecanth anymore.

What specifically is wrong with the papers written about coelacanth's?

Already have, it’s called reality, you know, Husky A and Mastiff B make Chinook C. Or Asian A and African B make Afro-Asian C. Ahh but what’s a little empirical evidence have to do with evolution. My bad.

No one disputes that an "african and asian make afro-asian". What is disputed is where you think african and asian came from in the first place.

You mean it’s sudden appearance fully formed with no predecessors? Maybe you should ask your theory that same question......

If I meant that I would have typed it.

Why do you think it doesn't have predecessors? Surely they would have been lobe finned fish, anatomically they're very similar aren't they?

I actually wondered how would you account for the fact that theory of evolution predicted that it would be found in a specific geographical region within a specific geological time frame? Was it coincidence? luck?

Would prefer to believe that they were specially created during the Devonian period, at a very specific time just before the emergence of land based tetrapods?

You mean the same biologists and paleontologist that see animals mate right in front of their eyes, ignore their own scientific definitions and call them separate species? And you wonder why you can’t follow them either......

LOL, I'm starting to think that you use the fact that you don't like the taxonomic classifaction system as an exuse to ignore anything you don't agree with.

200 years of scientific enquiry dissmissed!

Same Kind. Are you claiming they are separate species? Why not, no more differences in finches.

It's been explained and explained why not... see my previous post to you. Please desist from dishonestly feigning ignorance.

Why wouldn’t there be differences as the races interbred?

Because you seem to be claiming that the races began at the end points (geographically - africa and asia in this example) and met in the middle. I'm saying that if evolution is a fact they would have a start point and radiate outwards with a gradual change in appearance from Africa to Asia.

What part of Asian mates with African and produces an Afro-Asian escaped you?

Please don't say this to me again. I have a mixed race daughter, I know how it works.

Right, like they inferred with those ceratopsia? Starting with Triceratops and Torosaurus? But then we’ve already seen how well they did there in getting things all messed up.... and that’s with babies and adults of the same exact species, let alone different breeds or subspecies within the species..... yah, I am sure they’d get it all wrong just as they have with ceratopsia.

I don't know, it's your hypothetical. The classification of dogs doesn't seem to confuse anyone apart from you.
 
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Jimmy D

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Traditionally that would have been attempted by OEC. Unless of course you want to have a talk with Dr Dino and his version of YEC or maybe the appearance of age group may want to chime in. Gerolds Schroeder's OEC would have each age/day half the length of the day/age before it. Then Schroeder goes back 1,000 years to a famous kabbalah Rabbi to show that his modern day theory is not tainted by modern sciences and the current natural evidence we are working with. Of course Charles Lyell the father of geology was a creationist.

We have gradualism, uniformism and catastrophic theory. They would say that gradual uniform events created the record then catastrophic events exposed that record for us to examine today.

I appreciate the answer and I realize it was slightly unfair of me to ask as I am aware that you actually accept evolution.

I'll be honest though, I'm not really getting an explanation of the sequence of fossils we see from that paragraph.
 
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bhsmte

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Perhaps you should read the article on evolution as a fact and a theory.

Drawing conclusion from those so called mutations is called a theory. Stephen Jay Gould described fact in science as meaning data, not absolute certainty. A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of such facts.

Creationism and Evolution has all the same facts. They just have different theories to explain those facts. I consider theistic evolution - creationism and this is where creationism and evolution starts to blend together.

LOL. What is the scientific theory of creation?
 
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DogmaHunter

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This turns out not to be entirely correct. Though I don't think this is what is being referred to in this thread, Mutation Theory was the prevalent way to account for evolution in the early 1900s. IIRC this arose out of the discovery of Mendel's work by de Vries, Bateson and Correns. The notion was that speciation occured by large jumps caused by mutations. Natural Selection was discounted as of no real importance. Haldane and Sewall Wright resolved the issue in the 1920s.

It would make sense that certain creation types are stuck with knowledge of more then a century ago...
 
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xianghua

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Its predecessor had a different function. Try again.
you cant do that. you can check it by yourself with your watch. if you will remove some of it's crucial parts you will not get a different system (say a gps), you will just get a non functional watch.
 
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DogmaHunter

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According to Harvard Professor Gould's punctuated equilibrium:

(pŭngk'ch
oomacr.gif
-ā'tĭd)
The theory that new species evolve suddenly over relatively short periods of time (a few hundred to a thousand years), followed by longer periods in which little genetic change occurs. Punctuated equilibrium is a revision of Darwin's theory that evolution takes place at a slow, constant rate over millions of years. Compare gradualism.

That has literally nothing to do with what Jimmy stated.
 
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DogmaHunter

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you cant do that. you can check it by yourself with your watch. if you will remove some of it's crucial parts you will not get a different system (say a gps) you will just get a non functional watch.

mechanical watches are not biological systems.
 
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joshua 1 9

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It would make sense that certain creation types are stuck with knowledge of more then a century ago...
Nothing has been added to the Bible in 3500 years and with all the modern science we have people that still can not figure out the message GOD has for them and how HE wants them to apply that message to their lives today.
 
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Ophiolite

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What business is that of yours?
If you wish to have a private conversation, go somewhere private. If you choose to voice your opinions here, publicly, then any member may legitemately respond to them. And if you insist on voicing irrelvancies then it becomes every participant's business.
 
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PsychoSarah

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Just bring a species in from outside of the group.
-_- would you suggest bringing in "another species" if humans experienced a severe population bottleneck in which only 300 individuals of our species were left? Because last I checked, human's can't actually interbreed with any other species currently alive. There are a select few organisms for which people have tried to "save a species through hybridization", but that doesn't usually work very well.

As it were, your suggestion is only generally applicable if the bottlenecked population isn't the only population remaining of individuals that can (and are willing to) breed and produce fertile offspring. However, regardless as to whether or not 20% of a population dies or 80% does, when large portions of a population dies, it inevitably reduces the variety of the gene pool, even if who ends up dying is completely random.



A lot of problems will not be expressed if only the mother or the father carries it. My wife comes from the other side of the world. I could not have gone any further to find a wife. But our son is very healthy.
You're correct in that one of the easiest ways to help ensure that a child will be healthy is for the parents to be from distant populations that are unlikely to have the same recessive diseases. But, this doesn't work out well for populations that experienced bottlenecks due to a large portion of the species dying out.
 
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PsychoSarah

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There are 26 species of wild hamster that run free in parts of Europe, Asia, and the Middle East.
Neat.

The ones we see in the pet store are Syrian hamsters. They like to draw conclusions using the Syrian hamster without taking the other 26 species of hamsters into consideration.
https://voices.nationalgeographic.org/2014/03/07/hamsters-origins-syrian-aleppo-animals-world-pets/
I'm not sure what conclusions in this you take issue with, since this is just a piece that goes over the history of how Syrian hamsters became common pets... from National Geographic, which is not a scientific journal, and no citations from any primary sources.

However, I did find it interesting that it mentioned something I already did to you; hamsters come in a variety of colors. It even suggests that there is more color variety in these hamsters now than there was in the wild population when they were discovered.
 
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joshua 1 9

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I'm not sure what conclusions in this you take issue with
I am not the one making the conclusions, men and women of science just assume that the different colors in the syrian hamster are from mutation and I do not believe that. Lots of animals if not all animals have variations in color and it could not have happened independently in each and every species they way they suggest.

It is interesting the way the different colors combine and are expressed. That is why leopards have their spots and lions have their spites. This is why evo devo is beginning to explain a lot of stuff that defunct mutation theory fail to explain.

Syrian Hamster Colours Derived From Combining Mutations
Read more at Hamsters : Syrian Hamster Colours Derived From Combining Mutations
 
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rjs330

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What do you mean by "fully formed?" Are you saying that all fossils are of adult creatures?
Fully formed creature if some kind. Maybe not an adult. I suppose it depends on what we know for sure about it. Like a baby triceratops vs an adult one. But a triceratops nonetheless.
 
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gaara4158

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you cant do that. you can check it by yourself with your watch. if you will remove some of it's crucial parts you will not get a different system (say a gps), you will just get a non functional watch.
You're not a watch, no creature is a watch or a car or a GPS or any actual machine. That's the point. If you can point out a specific oragnism, organ, organelle, or any biological matter that's irreducibly complex and can't have arisen organically then you can prove intelligent design. You can't just keep naming machines and saying they're irreducibly complex therefore so is life. That's nonsense.
 
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rjs330

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Similarities is exactly what we'd expect to see if evolution is accurate.....which it is.

Just saying "That's not evidence!" won't make the overwhelming evidence go away.

Explain what common design is and why species will fall into a perfect nested hierarchy. What falsifiable test did you run to come to this conclusion?
Similarities is precisely what we expect to see in common design if it is accurate, which it is. A designer uses common materials to create and sustain life in order for it to flourish and adapt.
 
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