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Protesting Protestantism

JustHisKid

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Do you think in some ways that the reformation did not go far enough in removing catholic elements from church in making it more "christ like?" In what ways? what do you envision?

The closer your church resembles the first church in the book of Acts the better.
 
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interpreter

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Do you think in some ways that the reformation did not go far enough in removing catholic elements from church in making it more "christ like?" In what ways? what do you envision?
Most Protestant Churches went too far. I like my Church, where some Catholic elements were kept. And the main thing for me is, the priests are descended from St. Peter, through the process of laying on of hands.
 
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Light of the East

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The closer your church resembles the first church in the book of Acts the better.

That would be the Catholic Church, not Protestantism. You need to do some serious historic research.
 
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Light of the East

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Do you think in some ways that the reformation did not go far enough in removing catholic elements from church in making it more "christ like?" In what ways? what do you envision?


1. Prove to me that any form of Protestantism or any of their unique doctrines existed prior to 1517. I'm not talking about the doctrinal truth they got from the Catholic Church, such as the Trinity, the deity of Christ, etc. I'm talking about those uniquely Protestant man-made inventions like "believer's baptism."

2. Show me who your leaders were in the first, second, third, etc. centuries.

3. If God said that rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft (meaning that anyone who rebels against lawful authority is in deep kimchee) then how are the Reformers not in hell right now?

4. Tied into number three, show me the verse where God says that if you don't like the way the Church is being run, you can leave and start your own church.

5. Tell me why the Catholic Church is not, in your opinion, "Christ-like."
 
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JustHisKid

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That would be the Catholic Church, not Protestantism. You need to do some serious historic research.

I was raised in the Catholic church and there is nothing similar between that religion and the first church in the Book of Acts. I don't need research. I can read the Book of Acts and look at my church.. and the Catholic church.
 
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donfish06

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Most Protestant Churches went too far. I like my Church, where some Catholic elements were kept. And the main thing for me is, the priests are descended from St. Peter, through the process of laying on of hands.
I was raised in the Catholic church and there is nothing similar between that religion and the first church in the Book of Acts. I don't need research. I can read the Book of Acts and look at my church.. and the Catholic church.


What church do you go to? If you don't mind my asking
 
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Gregory Thompson

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That would be the Catholic Church, not Protestantism. You need to do some serious historic research.

1. Prove to me that any form of Protestantism or any of their unique doctrines existed prior to 1517. I'm not talking about the doctrinal truth they got from the Catholic Church, such as the Trinity, the deity of Christ, etc. I'm talking about those uniquely Protestant man-made inventions like "believer's baptism."

2. Show me who your leaders were in the first, second, third, etc. centuries.

3. If God said that rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft (meaning that anyone who rebels against lawful authority is in deep kimchee) then how are the Reformers not in hell right now?

4. Tied into number three, show me the verse where God says that if you don't like the way the Church is being run, you can leave and start your own church.

5. Tell me why the Catholic Church is not, in your opinion, "Christ-like."

Of the older traditions, I tend to identify Eastern Orthodox as more christlike, that being their teachings are based on the teachings of Christ from the gospel more emphatically. The protestant teachings that tend to take after the catholic way and whatever criticism you have of "them" is really a criticism of the catholic way.

What I'm talking about is, a way that's closer to "the way" that doesn't turn the worship of God into a means to empower the beast, and the dragon that gives it its power.

The main element of the catholic church that is not christ like is that Jesus taught that servants are the greatest, the catholic church uses the romanist structure of greatness and government turning christ's teaching on it's head, thus becoming worldly.

a historical element is that the popes are much like the kings of Israel, they were permissible but also acknowledged as an act of rebellion because Christ is our king, the reformation that occurred after the Pope dominancy era and the babylonian division and such that we see today, illustrates prophetically, that popes are still an act of rebellion, God works through it as he did through the kings of Israel and Judah, but as nice as Francis is .. he's not my king, Jesus is.

The monopolistic idea of catholic worship through the sacraments is giving like the world gives ... and Jesus does not give as the world gives. He said, let the little children come unto me.

But the protestant apple did not fall far from the catholic tree of the knowledge of good and evil, most of them became microcosms of the catholic church right down to the "one pastor" model of churches.

Thus the reason for this thread, protesting protestantism, because Jesus just isn't glorified enough.
 
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Light of the East

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I was raised in the Catholic church and there is nothing similar between that religion and the first church in the Book of Acts. I don't need research. I can read the Book of Acts and look at my church.. and the Catholic church.

First of all, the New Covenant Church in the book of Acts was in transition from the Old Covenant, so it was hardly the model you should look at. Jesus said that the Church would be like a mustard seed which would be planted. Acts is the seed. Why would you look at the seed and try to compare it to the full grown plant?

Now, as for your oblivious to the truth comment: There was no such thing as "believer's baptism" only in the Early Church.
There was no such thing as "making a decision for Jaaaaazuz." There was no such thing as Holy Communion with grape juice and soda crackers. There was no such thing as 30,000 churches, each having their own little pope who thinks that his sermons are a direct mouthpiece to God.

You don't need to research? People like you are why the Body of Christ remains shredded. You prefer to remain utterly ignorant instead of listening to others to find out if you might be wrong. You know what that is? The sin of pride.
 
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Light of the East

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Calvary Chapel. It's the one founded by Chuck Smith.

Precisely. Not founded by Jesus. And where did he get the authority to start a "church?"
 
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Light of the East

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Of the older traditions, I tend to identify Eastern Orthodox as more christlike, that being their teachings are based on the teachings of Christ from the gospel more emphatically. The protestant teachings that tend to take after the catholic way and whatever criticism you have of "them" is really a criticism of the catholic way.

What I'm talking about is, a way that's closer to "the way" that doesn't turn the worship of God into a means to empower the beast, and the dragon that gives it its power.

The main element of the catholic church that is not christ like is that Jesus taught that servants are the greatest, the catholic church uses the romanist structure of greatness and government turning christ's teaching on it's head, thus becoming worldly.

a historical element is that the popes are much like the kings of Israel, they were permissible but also acknowledged as an act of rebellion because Christ is our king, the reformation that occurred after the Pope dominancy era and the babylonian division and such that we see today, illustrates prophetically, that popes are still an act of rebellion, God works through it as he did through the kings of Israel and Judah, but as nice as Francis is .. he's not my king, Jesus is.

The monopolistic idea of catholic worship through the sacraments is giving like the world gives ... and Jesus does not give as the world gives. He said, let the little children come unto me.

But the protestant apple did not fall far from the catholic tree of the knowledge of good and evil, most of them became microcosms of the catholic church right down to the "one pastor" model of churches.

Thus the reason for this thread, protesting protestantism, because Jesus just isn't glorified enough.
 
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Light of the East

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Of the older traditions, I tend to identify Eastern Orthodox as more christlike, that being their teachings are based on the teachings of Christ from the gospel more emphatically. The protestant teachings that tend to take after the catholic way and whatever criticism you have of "them" is really a criticism of the catholic way.

I almost spit my coffee all over my monitor when I read this! You have GOT to be kidding! The difference between the Eastern Orthodox and Catholic Churches is so small you could put it in a thimble and have room for a Mack truck! Same seven Sacraments and the same understanding of them. Outside of the issue of the authority of the papacy, the same hierarchical structure.

Criticisms of the Protestants: (these things are NOT found in Catholicism) Worship of the Bible over Christ. Sola Scriptura (which is not found in the scriptura!) Salvation by "making a decision for Jaaaaaayzuz." Prohibitions on drinking wine, going to movies (the more uber Fundamentalists) long hair on men, etc. Lack of the Sacraments, which God gave to us to unite us to Him. Lack of any defined and single authority to speak on behalf of God. (30,000 voices all speaking something different is chaos) Lack of unity with other Christians. Supporting immorality (liberal Protestantism) Worship which glorifies the man in the pulpit rather than the Christ on the altar. Utter contempt for the saints and the Mother of God..

I could probably find more.


What I'm talking about is, a way that's closer to "the way" that doesn't turn the worship of God into a means to empower the beast, and the dragon that gives it its power.

Bunkum! You have been reading too many Chick tracts.

The main element of the catholic church that is not christ like is that Jesus taught that servants are the greatest, the catholic church uses the romanist structure of greatness and government turning christ's teaching on it's head, thus becoming worldly.

What utter hogwash! All through the Bible you see authority structures. Do you think that Moses lacked authority? Look at what happened to those who opposed him. David was set up as king, not servant. Just because someone has authority, it does not mean that they cannot be a servant to others. That is, in fact, the responsibility of those in power, to use their power to serve and protect those under them.

a historical element is that the popes are much like the kings of Israel, they were permissible but also acknowledged as an act of rebellion because Christ is our king, the reformation that occurred after the Pope dominancy era and the babylonian division and such that we see today, illustrates prophetically, that popes are still an act of rebellion, God works through it as he did through the kings of Israel and Judah, but as nice as Francis is .. he's not my king, Jesus is.

When a king leaves his kingdom, he does not leave it without a guiding authority in his stead. Following the principles of kingdom, Jesus has appointed the office of the papacy to rule in his stead. You are in rebellion against that office, and shall answer for your rebellion. Kings do not take it lightly when those whom they have appointed to rule in their absence are insulted and ignored.

The monopolistic idea of catholic worship through the sacraments is giving like the world gives ... and Jesus does not give as the world gives. He said, let the little children come unto me.

You have no idea what you are talking about. (Which is typical of most Protestants). The Sacraments are at the heart of covenant making. The word Sacrament comes from the Latin word "sacramentum," which means "oath." One enters into a covenant relationship by the making of self-maledictory sacramentum (oaths). Oaths and sanctions are a profound part of covenant making. There is no such thing in Evangelicalism, which shows it to be a false religion. Jesus established a New Covenant, therefore, anyone who wishes to follow Him must enter into that covenant by the principles of a covenant. Making a "decision for Jaaaaayzuz" does not qualify at all.

If Jesus established the New Covenant in His Blood, and you have not entered that covenant by the means that He set out in covenant principles, and are not obedient to the covenant headship which He appointed to rule in His absence, how can you say you are being an obedient Christian?


But the protestant apple did not fall far from the catholic tree of the knowledge of good and evil, most of them became microcosms of the catholic church right down to the "one pastor" model of churches.

Thus the reason for this thread, protesting protestantism, because Jesus just isn't glorified enough.
 
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JustHisKid

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Precisely. Not founded by Jesus. And where did he get the authority to start a "church?"

Oh, yes that church is very much founded by Jesus Himself. I mentioned Chuck Smith because there are other "Calvary's" out there and I didn't want you to mistake for something else.
 
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JustHisKid

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First of all, the New Covenant Church in the book of Acts was in transition from the Old Covenant, so it was hardly the model you should look at.

Actually, it replaced the first covenant and it exactly what I should look at.

Jesus said that the Church would be like a mustard seed which would be planted. Acts is the seed. Why would you look at the seed and try to compare it to the full grown plant?

What grew is the number of believers. It didn't mean it would morph into something totally unrecognizable to the first believers and certainly not into a new religion.

Now, as for your oblivious to the truth comment: There was no such thing as "believer's baptism" only in the Early Church.

Paul preached a baptism of repentance but Jesus baptizes us with the spirit and fire.

There was no such thing as "making a decision for Jaaaaazuz."

Why are you mocking Jesus?

There was no such thing as Holy Communion with grape juice and soda crackers

No doubt. Holy communion is not a term I would ever use. We break bread together in remembrance of Him.

There was no such thing as 30,000 churches, each having their own little pope who thinks that his sermons are a direct mouthpiece to God.

I quite agree. I do not acknowledge any pope. There is one mediator between God and man, that is Christ Jesus ALONE.

You don't need to research? People like you are why the Body of Christ remains shredded. You prefer to remain utterly ignorant instead of listening to others to find out if you might be wrong. You know what that is? The sin of pride.

Ignorant about what?


.
 
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Light of the East

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Oh, yes that church is very much founded by Jesus Himself. I mentioned Chuck Smith because there are other "Calvary's" out there and I didn't want you to mistake for something else.

You obviously do not understand anything about the establishment of authority. Jesus gave the keys to the Kingdom of God to Peter, not Chuck Smith. The Church is the Kingdom of God on earth, as seen in Matthew 21: 33-46, where it is referred to as "the vineyard" in Jesus' parable.

There has only ever been one Church established on earth, not thousands. It began in the wilderness with Moses as he led out the Hebrew children. God established Moses as His authority on earth and national Israel was the congregation of God, or Church (edah in Hebrew). When the Jews rejected the Messiah, the Kingdom, or vineyard of the Lord, was taken from them and given to "another nation" (the Jew/Gentile congregation of God).

The idea that Jesus would establish another "congregation of God" which teaches doctrines not found in the Apostolic teachings and that contradicts the teaching of the one Church which Jesus did establish upon St. Peter, is laughable upon the face of it. There is only one Church on earth. It began with Moses and was put under new rulership and a New Covenant under St. Peter.

All others are fraudulent.
 
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JustHisKid

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You obviously do not understand anything about the establishment of authority. Jesus gave the keys to the Kingdom of God to Peter, not Chuck Smith. The Church is the Kingdom of God on earth, as seen in Matthew 21: 33-46, where it is referred to as "the vineyard" in Jesus' parable.

What kind of authority?

There has only ever been one Church established on earth, not thousands. It began in the wilderness with Moses as he led out the Hebrew children. God established Moses as His authority on earth and national Israel was the congregation of God, or Church (edah in Hebrew). When the Jews rejected the Messiah, the Kingdom, or vineyard of the Lord, was taken from them and given to "another nation" (the Jew/Gentile congregation of God).

There is only one Bride of Christ, the Church, which is the body of all born again believers, regardless of whether the attend a "church" service or not.

The idea that Jesus would establish another "congregation of God" which teaches doctrines not found in the Apostolic teachings and that contradicts the teaching of the one Church which Jesus did establish upon St. Peter, is laughable upon the face of it. There is only one Church on earth. It began with Moses and was put under new rulership and a New Covenant under St. Peter.


Jesus established salvation. He didn't establish a new religion. In fact, He eliminated the need for one.
 
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Chicken Little

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Do you think in some ways that the reformation did not go far enough in removing catholic elements from church in making it more "christ like?" In what ways? what do you envision?
I like the question! but his spirit has to come alive to every person.. it does no good for it to come "alive" in a organized thing because the next generations which are not alive will just turn control freakish. and then some new Doctrine BECOMES their new god/ idol .. and only it can
" save you" , it matters not what the new is if it isn't alive from him to our souls , then it is death to our souls.
the only thing we were ever meant to introduce men too was HIM..and few if any doctrines...... except each man con-science and the bible . because nothing else has power but Him to saves.
so there is no Church good enough, or who has pure enough doctrines. because doctrines don't save, Jesus does .
Covenants with a pew don't save. covenants with Doctrines don't save . Only relationship with him will save us.

a whole lots of people are going to hear
" depart from me ....... I never knew you"
I hope I am not one of them! I hope I know him and that I have followed him and faithful to HIM! ... and not been faithful to things or concepts or doctorines or buildings which have no power to save or redeem to raise me from the dead. Jesus says "I only DO what I see my father in heaven doing", he is our example !
 
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