I recognize the fact that the Catholic Church was the first church, and they are the reason that Christianity is as widespread as it is today. And I appreciate that. But I think that they have strayed from their original doctrines over the past millenia or so.
Somehow you managed to dig an old thread up on my board. What I've wrote in the past has come back to haunt me.
You have all surrounded me like a swarm of killer bees. I, a lonely Protestant in a forum filled with Catholics.
If you accept that the Catholic Church was the first church, commissioned by Jesus, with Peter as the head and the Apostles as the leaders, then how can you NOT accept the words of Jesus to the Church, namely, "You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 16: 18-19) Does this sound like Jesus would ALLOW the church to "stray from their original doctrines over the past millenia or so"????
Protestants say that the Rock referred to is Jesus.
"Thou art Peter, thou hast the name of a stone, but upon this rock, (pointing to himself), I will build my church.
Paul rebuked Peter over a matter of personal behavior, not over a matter pertaining to faith or morals; this does nothing to lessen Peter's position as Vicar of Christ over the universal Church.That still does not prove
(1) The Peter was a "Pope" in the sense that you Catholics have a pope now, or that the other disciples regarded him that way. In fact, Paul publicly corrected him for a mistake he made (Galations 2:11).
Not only a cardinal, but how about a lowly nun? St. Catherine of Siena publicly took Pope Gregory XI to task in 1376 for not moving the headquarters of the Holy See from Avignon back to Rome, as he said he would do. Her rebuke worked, because Gregory finally did relocate back to Rome.Would the Catholic Church put up with a Cardinal rebuking the Pope?
If there is no such thing as Apostolic succession, where the authority of the officeholder passes to his replacement upon the officeholder's death, then how do you explain Acts 1:20-26, where the Eleven confer Judas' authority as an Apostle on Matthias? How do you explain the many references to the mantle of authority being passed on by laying on of hands or by Apostolic appointment (Acts 14:23, Eph 2:20, 1 Tim 4:14, 1 Tim 5:22, Titus 1:5)?(2) That the authority Jesus gave would be passed on to other successors and realized in the organization of the Catholic Church.
I recognize the fact that the Catholic Church was the first church, and they are the reason that Christianity is as widespread as it is today. And I appreciate that. But I think that they have strayed from their original doctrines over the past millenia or so.
"You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 16: 18-19
Does this sound like Jesus would ALLOW the church to "stray from their original doctrines over the past millenia or so"????
Think back over the scriptures. Peter was not perfect; he had some very memorable screw-ups. Yet, at NO time did Jesus say, "Hey, Pete, I changed my mind. You've blown it, Man. Gimme back the Keys to Heaven."
If we could 'knock it down' with solid proof, then that means that you are afraid of the TRUTH. Is that what you are saying? That you think it's more important to hold on to your beliefs, even though they may be wrong, than to admit the Church has the better interpretation? That's not even funny. That's just sad.I have another interpretation.... I'm afraid you might knock it down.
Apparently the revolving door is still open.I might go back to this thread, or not.
Numbers don't balance debate, evidence does. And besides, we can only post one at a time. No-one is crowding you.I'm clearly outnumbered so this debate isn't remotely balanced.
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