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Protestant--seeker seeking truth

J. Elias

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Hello! I am a theology freshman, and I'm sure I'll learn more about Catholicism and Orthodoxy in my studies, but I have been raised a Protestant all my life and was just looking for some knowledge on the subjects. Example questions:

--What makes the Virgin Mary so significant a figure that we ought to pray to her? (same goes for the saints as well)
--What basis do we have to believe prayer for those saint who have passed will be of any effect?
--How does Purgatory work?
--What kind of feasts and/or traditions do you have and why?
--Are laypeople allowed to minister, or just ordained clergy?
--Where do you believe Protestantism is mistaken?

These are just some examples, like I said I'm just looking for a general understanding of your views and seeking to find what's true! Any other facts/opinions/answers you may have are greatly appreciated as well!
 

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Hello! I am a theology freshman, and I'm sure I'll learn more about Catholicism and Orthodoxy in my studies, but I have been raised a Protestant all my life and was just looking for some knowledge on the subjects. Example questions:

--What makes the Virgin Mary so significant a figure that we ought to pray to her? (same goes for the saints as well)
--What basis do we have to believe prayer for those saint who have passed will be of any effect?
--How does Purgatory work?
--What kind of feasts and/or traditions do you have and why?
--Are laypeople allowed to minister, or just ordained clergy?
--Where do you believe Protestantism is mistaken?

These are just some examples, like I said I'm just looking for a general understanding of your views and seeking to find what's true! Any other facts/opinions/answers you may have are greatly appreciated as well!
I'll take these one by one, and I'm glad you are interested in Catholicism and I hope I can be of help! I'll do a quick piece on each one just to keep it short, and then if you'd like we can talk more in depth about a specific question.

Mary is so important because she is the Mother of God. You have to affirm this, otherwise you'd be saying that Jesus isn't God, and you'd be separating his natures. Being the Mother of God, she has a special intercessory power. At the wedding of Cana, Jesus's first miracle was performed by the intercession of Mary. One aspect of Mary's importance are her Old Testament archetypes. You see, where there was Adam, there was also Eve. Where there was Moses, there was also the Ark of the Covenant. Where there was Solomon the Wise, who built the Temple, there was also his Queen Mother. Jesus is obviously the fulfillment of many Old Testament archetypes, just some of them being listed above, but so is Mary. For the sake of brevity, I'll just focus on the last two. The Ark of the Covenant was designed by God Himself to carry the Ten Commandments (The Word of God), Aaron the High Priest's Staff, and manna from the desert. It was so pure and holy, that two men who touched it died. Now Jesus is the Word made Flesh, He is the High Priest, and He is the Bread of Life, and He carried in His Mother's womb, so Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant. Being that the New Testament fulfillments of the Old Testament Archetypes are always much greater, just imagine the holiness of Mary, being that the Ark of the Old Covenant was designed by God Himself. Also,in the Apocalypse, St. John sees a vision of the Ark of the Covenant, and instead of going on to describe a gold plated box, he describes a woman clothed in the sun and standing on the moon, crowned with twelve stars who gives birth to a Child. So we see that Mary, being crowned with twelve stars, is the Queen Mother. Jesus will not refuse anything His Queen Mother asks of Him. This is where you get the intercessory power of Mary's prayer. In the Book of James, You see that the prayers of a righteous man are much more effective than those men who have more sinful habits. So how much more powerful are the prayers of the Queen of Heaven?

Now touching on the power of the saints in general, once again in the Apocalypse you see that the Altar of God is built upon the Martyrs, and that they cry out to God to avenge them. Now, God starts entire wars on Earth for the sake of His martyrs. You also see, in the 11th Chapter I believe, that the angels and saints carry our prayers up to God in the form of incense. These images show that the saints and angels are very much aware of what happens here on Earth, and being that they are perfect in heaven (righteous), their prayers are much more effective than our own.

Purgatory is a place where reparation is made for sin, and where the souls of those in a state of grace are perfected. The easiest way to understand it is like this. We humans are not ready to live the life of Heaven. The life of Heaven consists in being perfect and perfectly loving God. Sin and attachment to the things of this world prevent that. Purgatory is the place where we are purged of all attachment to sin and the things of this world, which is a necessarily painful process. Purgatory is not a second chance or a waiting place to see if you will go to Heaven or Hell. If you are in Purgatory, you will go to Heaven once you have been made perfect, as gold in a furnace.

The Catholic Church is filled with many feasts and traditions, which are much too numerous to elaborate in this post. They are usually centered around a specific event in the life of Christ, such as His birth (Christmas, literally Christ's Mass), His resurrection (Easter), His Ascension (Feast of the Ascension), Pentecost, etc. Or they are in honor of a specific saint (Feast of Sts. Peter and Paul). Traditions/Devotions can be based on private revelation (Sacred Heart Devotion, the Rosary, Our Lady of Fatima, etc.), so while they are highly encouraged by the Church, they are not absolutely binding on the faithful.

All Catholics are called to spread the Gospel anyway they can. Teaching, however, is left primarily to the clergy, it is they to whom Christ specifically commissioned and gave His own mission. The offering of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is also left only to ordained priests, following Jesus's command to "Do this in memory of Me".

I believe all the differences between Catholics and Protestants could eventually be traced back to two doctrines. Sola Scriptura (Scripture Alone) and Sola Fide (Faith Alone). Essentially, the disagreements are on who exactly has the authority to teach; Catholics would say the Church using both Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture alone has the authority to bind and loose i.e. define doctrine, make laws, etc., and how is salvation attained; Catholics would say faith alone is not enough, as stated by St. James, but that you must also follow the commandments of the Lord and perform the good works that He has commanded.

Like I said, these are just brief overviews of the subjects mentioned, I hope it helps. If you would like to go more in depth on a specific issue (I think it is better to focus on one issue at a time), I would be more than happy to continue correspondence with you.
 
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Job8

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These are just some examples, like I said I'm just looking for a general understanding of your views and seeking to find what's true!
J. Elias,

The only way to determine what is true and what is false is to firstly know what the Bible teaches, what is the true Gospel, and what is Bible Christianity. So before you undertake an investigation into false beliefs, know the truth. What you will find as you go along is that those who hold to false teachings and false practices will never frankly admit that they are unbiblical. Instead they will find some justification, no matter if it means grasping at straws.
 
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J. Elias

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The only way to determine what is true and what is false is to firstly know what the Bible teaches, what is the true Gospel, and what is Bible Christianity. So before you undertake an investigation into false beliefs, know the truth. What you will find as you go along is that those who hold to false teachings and false practices will never frankly admit that they are unbiblical. Instead they will find some justification, no matter if it means grasping at straws.

Well, as good as that sounds, unfortunately much of the Protestant church seems increasingly unbiblical. Further, Paul expresses in 2 Thessalonians 2:15 that they were to pass on what they were taught, by either word or epistle. That suggests they taught some things by word without epistle. Which means, at least to me, it's plausible that New Testament Scripture does not address all matters in the Christian faith, which has caused me to probe deeper into Orthodoxy and Catholicism.

You seem well-meaning, but what you're arguing is circular. If the only way to determine truth is to know the true Gospel, then how do I know a true Gospel from a false one? I'm sure an Orthodox investigating Protestantism would be warned similarly to know the truth before "investigating false beliefs."

As I said, you seem very well-meaning, and if you'd like to PM me I'd be happy to hear from you on whatever matters concern you in the Orthodox and Catholic traditions. But this isn't the place for that, here I'm searching for Catholic and Orthodox opinions, answers, and advice.

Blessings!
 
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Albion

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Well, as good as that sounds, unfortunately much of the Protestant church seems increasingly unbiblical. Further, Paul expresses in 2 Thessalonians 2:15 that they were to pass on what they were taught, by either word or epistle. That suggests they taught some things by word without epistle. Which means, at least to me, it's plausible that New Testament Scripture does not address all matters in the Christian faith, which has caused me to probe deeper into Orthodoxy and Catholicism.
That sounds reasonable, but I'd love to know what doctrines that are essential to salvation fall into this category, especially since we are told in the Gospel of John that all that Jesus said and did is not recorded in Scripture (obviously) but that it is nothing that we need to know.
 
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Cappadocious

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Hello! I am a theology freshman, and I'm sure I'll learn more about Catholicism and Orthodoxy in my studies, but I have been raised a Protestant all my life and was just looking for some knowledge on the subjects.
I will provide answers from my Orthodox opinion.

--What makes the Virgin Mary so significant a figure that we ought to pray to her? (same goes for the saints as well)
We do not believe that the Virgin Mary and the saints are dead, but alive. And since we see fit to pray to the living that they might help us and petition God on our behalf, so we ask the holy who have gone before. And since the holy who have gone before are those whose light shone before men as righteous, and the prayer of the righteous man avails much, so we seek them.

--What kind of feasts and/or traditions do you have and why?
Our biggest feasts are Pascha, Christmas and Theophany.
Theophany marks the baptism of Christ and the revelation of his divine ministry... the word means "God-appearing." This is where St. Peter began when preaching Christ.
Christmas is the birth of Christ and makes more sense to those already initiated into Christianity.
Pascha is the greatest feast, and a small version of it is held every week because it is so important. This is the feast of Christ's Resurrection and the fulfillment of Passover. Pascha means Passover.

--Are laypeople allowed to minister, or just ordained clergy?
Clergy are what we call people who are called to minister in certain ways. So the question is a bit off.

--Where do you believe Protestantism is mistaken?
Speaking generally, it is mostly mistaken in its idea of discipline and where it thinks Christianity takes place.
 
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Major1

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Hello! I am a theology freshman, and I'm sure I'll learn more about Catholicism and Orthodoxy in my studies, but I have been raised a Protestant all my life and was just looking for some knowledge on the subjects. Example questions:

--What makes the Virgin Mary so significant a figure that we ought to pray to her? (same goes for the saints as well)
--What basis do we have to believe prayer for those saint who have passed will be of any effect?
--How does Purgatory work?
--What kind of feasts and/or traditions do you have and why?
--Are laypeople allowed to minister, or just ordained clergy?
--Where do you believe Protestantism is mistaken?

These are just some examples, like I said I'm just looking for a general understanding of your views and seeking to find what's true! Any other facts/opinions/answers you may have are greatly appreciated as well!

Hello my brother. I am glad to see you are a seminary student. I will be glad to speak to your concerns.

1. Catholics error in that she is to be prayed to. That my friend is Catholic denominational teaching and is not found in the Word of God.

2. That is also Catholic traditions based on 2 Macabees where there is a prayer for the dead. Of course Macabees is not in the cannon of Scriptures and nowhere in the Bible is a doctrine found for praying for the dead.

3. Purgatory does NOT WORK as there is NO mention of such a thing in the Word of God.

4. NONE. Feast days were done by Jews because they were looking forward to the coming of Messiah. We do not have to have feast days as we know Jesus the Messiah has in fact come.

5. ALL people are encouraged to minister to others. Every Christian has a gift and it is up to that person to recognize it and use it to glorify the Lord Jesus.

6. LOL!!!! My dear friend, it is the Catholic religion which is mistaken as they believe more in the triditions of men than they do the written Word of God.

Example. Have YOU been told as a Catholic to not worry about being "Born Again"????

My dear brother, that is the ONLY way you will get to heaven. Look it up for yourself in John 3:1-10.

"Master, what does a man have to do to enter the kingdom of heaven"?

YE MUST BE BORN AGAIN"!!!

I hope this has helped you. Come again any time!
 
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Panevino

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Hello! I am a theology freshman, and I'm sure I'll learn more about Catholicism and Orthodoxy in my studies, but I have been raised a Protestant all my life and was just looking for some knowledge on the subjects. Example questions:.....
Please be aware when investigating, that there are generally a lot of misunderstandings from Protestants on the meaning / intent / result (for lack of a better word) of most Catholic/Orthodox doctrine.

All the best
 
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Raggedyman

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Catholicism failed in my heart when I was told that the pope was Gods word on earth.
Effectively the pope became Jesus, a usurper of the one true priest

The pope, just another man working in a holy sea that is more interested in money than people

I knew a Phillipines Catholic, said he was saddened that the Spanish colonised the Islands, wished it was the British, Protestant country's were for the most part much more Westernised than Catholic country's.
Look what the Spanish done in South America.

Anyway, I know wonderful Catholics, some very Godly people, sadly there are some bad ones as well.

I never understood why Catholic priests don't get married (no wonder the child abuse), why the priests are called father when the bible expressly forbids it, how they can think money given to the church can buy dead people out of sin.
 
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Panevino

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Catholicism failed in my heart when I was told that the pope was Gods word on earth.
Effectively the pope became Jesus, a usurper of the one true priest
please consider that you may of been misled.
The pope, just another man working in a holy sea that is more interested in money than people
which pope, all? Would you conceed this may be a slight generalization
I knew a Phillipines Catholic, said he was saddened that the Spanish colonised the Islands, wished it was the British, Protestant country's were for the most part much more Westernised than Catholic country's.
Look what the Spanish done in South America.
consider How many indigenous are left in Australia, Canada and the USA. Don't forget the Irish and their relationship/history.
Just need to be balanced when making a decisions based on some examples and consider things deeper than....
Anyway, I know wonderful Catholics, some very Godly people, sadly there are some bad ones as well.
as with any group
I never understood why Catholic priests don't get married (no wonder the child abuse),
a married peadophile is still a peadophile the sickness /evilness is deeper than that "solution"
why the priests are called father when the bible expressly forbids it,
rom4:16
how they can think money given to the church can buy dead people out of sin.
strawman, sorry don't mean to be abrupt.
 
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Raggedyman

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please consider that you may of been misled. which pope, all? Would you conceed this may be a slight generalization consider How many indigenous are left in Australia, Canada and the USA. Don't forget the Irish and their relationship/history.
Just need to be balanced when making a decisions based on some examples and consider things deeper than....
as with any group a married peadophile is still a peadophile the sickness /evilness is deeper than that "solution" rom4:16 strawman, sorry don't mean to be abrupt.
No you are not being abrupt and I was generalizing, I appreciate the generous and even reply

Irrespective, I don't think the Vatican has any idea about who Christ was and how he lived, sorry
Please understand I am equally disgusted by the Hinns, Meyers and creflo dollar types as well

Men who don't marry are more inclined to become perverted
Look at the cults in South America and the Philipines, the Catholic Church encourages them.
The Protestant church not so much

I did consider things deeper and was happy to leave Catholicism behind
 
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Panevino

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No you are not being abrupt and I was generalizing, I appreciate the generous and even reply

Irrespective, I don't think the Vatican has any idea about who Christ was and how he lived, sorry
Please understand I am equally disgusted by the Hinns, Meyers and creflo dollar types as well
consider the type people it chooses to celebrate in the canonized Saints. There are some extrodinary people who very much had a good understanding of Christ. These are the people the "Vatican" acknowledges and understands people should now about.
There are many other things to consider that do show an understanding from the Vatican.
Consider the "corporal and spiritual works of mercy" and how strongly the Church as a body has sought to address them.
Practically all nursing homes in the state I live in (even secular) have a priest or arranged lay person who brings the Eucharist weekly to the elderly who can't get up. And facilitated the largest non -government school system in Australia and the world (I think)....
Men who don't marry are more inclined to become perverted
Look at the cults in South America and the Philipines, the Catholic Church encourages them.
The Protestant church not so much
consider that they may of been peadophile prior to becoming a priest.
Also don't forget /consider that there may be a reason that men choose to give thier life to Christ and the church..(for the sake of the kingdom).. It's pretty extrodinary
I did consider things deeper and was happy to leave Catholicism behind
 
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Bob Carabbio

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--What makes the Virgin Mary so significant a figure that we ought to pray to her? (same goes for the saints as well)

Absolutely NOTHING except for Catholic SUPERSTITION. Mary was a normal Jewish gal, who was obedient to God's Call to a VERY difficult ministry. She's WAS NOT "Sinless", nor "Immaculately Conceived", nor "Ever Virgin", nor any of the other "Traditional foolishness" the Romanist Church ascribes to her, and there's NO BIBLICAL evidence for ANY of it.

--What basis do we have to believe prayer for those saint who have passed will be of any effect?

In order to BE "Canonized, the "Dear departed" has to produce (what are considered to be TWO Miraculous occurrences as the result of Prayers Directed To them. If uyou take ANY of that seriously, then that's your "Basis" such as it is.

--How does Purgatory work?

There's NO SUCH THING as "Purgatory", so it doesn't work. It's based on the Romanist belief that when Jesus "Cleansed us, he didn't do a complete job, and we STILL have to "Atone" in a place of torment for stuff we did, until we're "Clean enough for heaven (OR until somebody pays for 30 "GRegorian Masses" from The Salesian Fathers of Don Bosco - that'll get you OUTTA there an a month).

--Are laypeople allowed to minister, or just ordained clergy?

Lay people ARE allowed to perform CERTAIN Ministries, and BARRED from others.

--Where do you believe Protestantism is mistaken?

We Don't take the Romanist Organization Seriously, Don't consider the Pope to be anything other that the CEO of Rome Inc. Don't take much of ANY Romanist Doctrine/Sacraments/Beuracracy etc. as being either accurate OR important and WORST OF ALL we Believe that Salvation is By FAITH and that not of yourselves; it is the GIFT OF GOD. NOT by Works, lest any should boast (Eph 2:8,9)
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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Consider this verse when thinking about the Catholic liturgy of transubstatiation... not sure if it's the same in the Orthodox.

Hebrews 6:6
... seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
 
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masmpg

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Hello! I am a theology freshman, and I'm sure I'll learn more about Catholicism and Orthodoxy in my studies, but I have been raised a Protestant all my life and was just looking for some knowledge on the subjects. Example questions:

--What makes the Virgin Mary so significant a figure that we ought to pray to her? (same goes for the saints as well)
--What basis do we have to believe prayer for those saint who have passed will be of any effect?
--How does Purgatory work?
--What kind of feasts and/or traditions do you have and why?
--Are laypeople allowed to minister, or just ordained clergy?
--Where do you believe Protestantism is mistaken?

These are just some examples, like I said I'm just looking for a general understanding of your views and seeking to find what's true! Any other facts/opinions/answers you may have are greatly appreciated as well!

I would like to encourage you to investigate both sides of the catholic/orthodox, and now lutheran issue. I was raised catholic, and love the catholic church but there are certain doctrinal teachings they promote and make non negotiable that are not biblical at all. Please do a study from more then just catholic sources on transubstantiation, even though catholic sources will suffice if you believe in being saved by the biblical method and not by tradition. This act borders on blasphemy. I try never to down any denomination, but the errors taught by the RCC are not even Christian. If you have any foundation in the bible you will find this out for yourself. Another study to research thoroughly is the immaculate conception. If you study these two doctrines, which are extremely important in the RCC, and pray that the Lord will show you the truth, and un biased accept the conclusion you will be blessed. I can give you statements from the RCC catechism about these that would blow your mind unless you believe in tradition over the word of God.
 
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Greg J.

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Hello! I am a theology freshman, and I'm sure I'll learn more about Catholicism and Orthodoxy in my studies, but I have been raised a Protestant all my life and was just looking for some knowledge on the subjects. Example questions:

--What makes the Virgin Mary so significant a figure that we ought to pray to her? (same goes for the saints as well)
--What basis do we have to believe prayer for those saint who have passed will be of any effect?
--How does Purgatory work?
--What kind of feasts and/or traditions do you have and why?
--Are laypeople allowed to minister, or just ordained clergy?
--Where do you believe Protestantism is mistaken?

These are just some examples, like I said I'm just looking for a general understanding of your views and seeking to find what's true! Any other facts/opinions/answers you may have are greatly appreciated as well!
It's one thing to learn church history and what others believe and quite another to learn what is trustworthy and what is not—and there is only one way to do that.

and again, “The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile.”So then, no more boasting about men! ... (1 Corinthians 3:20-21a, 1984 NIV)

If you rely on thoughts and explanations of men, you will make yourself a follower of men.

Jesus speaking:
I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them.” (John 17:26, 1984 NIV)

But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. (John 14:26, 1984 NIV)
 
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J. Elias

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Thanks for your input, guys!

One trend I seem to notice in the opposition to the liturgical traditions is that the Church is not authoritative (e.g. Sola Scriptura). If the Holy Spirit is just as capable of preserving the Scriptures for us, why can the Spirit not preserve correct tradition in the Church through men? For example, the understanding of the Real Presence in the Eucharist, or "transubstantiation" was unchallenged until the 15th and 16 centuries of the Church. While the doctrine of transubstantiation is not "biblical" per se, could it not be just as valid? Consider that the Jewish people had the written Tanakh (Old Testament) and oral Mishnah (oral traditions passed down through generations).

Why is it the Scriptures are infallible, while Church tradition is not?
 
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