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Protestant/Catholic

Discussion in 'One Bread, One Body - Catholic' started by Hoonbaba, Apr 17, 2002.

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  1. VOW

    VOW Moderator

    +15
    Catholic
    Married
    To Lizzi:

    Please don't be upset at the Catholic Church for their position that non-Catholics are not in full fellowship with the Church. You are absolutely right, you are in fellowship with God. However, you do not have the availablity of all the Sacraments that Jesus established for the Church. THAT is what the Catholic teaching means.

    The biggest loss, in my heart and in my mind, that non-Catholics suffer is the lack of belief in the Real Presence of the Eucharist. Think about it: when you have Communion at your church, what happens to the leftovers? I bet the broken crackers get swept into the trash, and the grape juice is rinsed down the drain.

    In the Catholic Church, a MIRACLE occurs! The humble bread and wine are transformed into the actual Body and Blood of our Savior! We get to TOUCH GOD. We take God within us, and use Him as building blocks to create the person that He wants us to be.

    To the Baptist, or the Methodist, or the Presbyterian, or other non-Catholic who gets indignant and says, "You crazy Catholics! Communion is supposed to be symbolic! That CAN'T be the true Body and Blood of Jesus!" my heart breaks. Oh, how I mourn for our brothers and sisters in Christ, who deny themselves the Real Presence!


    Peace be with you,
    ~VOW
     
  2. VOW

    VOW Moderator

    +15
    Catholic
    Married
    I've cried during the Stations of the Cross.

    And I've been made breathless and teary-eyed when I've fallen in love (again!) with the Real Presence at the Consecration!

    But the one recurring sensation that I have during the Consecration is best described as a shiver, or a chill that starts at the top of my head and travels down my body. The hairs on my arms actually stand up! When my children were old enough to understand, I explained to them, "Look, guys, I'll answer questions, tie shoelaces, kiss boohoos, offer kleenex, rub backs, referee fights, I'll do WHATEVER you need from me....just leave me ALONE during the Consecration!"

    If I don't receive that shiver....I consider myself unworthy of the Body and Blood, and I will not only NOT receive Communion, I know it's time to go to Confession!


    Peace be with you,
    ~VOW
     
  3. AngelAmidala

    AngelAmidala Legend

    +617
    Methodist
    Single
    I say, Communion is what you want it to be. I was brought up as it being symbolic. It's what I believe. But that's not going to make me say that a Catholic is wrong for saying it is the true Body and Blood of Jesus. That's what they believe. I would never tell someone their beliefs were wrong...unless they truly were. (Like if someone told me 1 + 1 = 4...then I'd have to help them out. ;) )

    This also got me thinking about something. What mindset do you think the disciples were when Jesus was giving them the Last Supper. Do you think they were in the mindset that it was his true Body and Blood? Do you think they were thinking it was a symbol? Or do you think they were so confused and unsure of what was happening that they didn't really take into account what was going on?

    I'm just curious. :)
     
  4. VOW

    VOW Moderator

    +15
    Catholic
    Married
    To Angel:

    Jesus was behaving very strangely ever since He and the disciples had arrived in Jerusalem. I would imagine they were still pretty buzzed that he KNEW someone would have a room and a Seder meal prepared for them!

    I think they were dumbfounded at His presentation during the Seder. I can almost see them around the table, mute, each taking the matzoh and eating it, chewing almost absentmindedly, their eyes fixed on Jesus.

    After they finished eating, the night became a jumble for them. Peter, James, and John, KNOWING that the Teacher was troubled, remembering the words He had said, that He was going to DIE, and terrified that this might be occurring soon. Then, when they fell asleep, and Jesus gently scolded them, and the rest of the night passing in a blur when the centurions arrived to arrest Jesus.

    The next day, they watched in horror as the gentle Teacher was brutally, shamefully killed.

    I believe it was at the Pentecost, when the Holy Spirit arrived to infuse the new Church with the power of God, that the Apostles eyes were finally opened, and their minds were able to finally pull all the little pieces together. It was then that they recalled the famous "Bread of Life" discourse, when Jesus emphasized that he was giving his flesh for the Life of the world. Over and over He said it, "My flesh is true food, my blood is real drink; you must eat my flesh and drink my blood to have Eternal Life." That teaching, the memory of the confusing things that Jesus said at the Seder meal, and the agonizing recollection of watching the blood flow from the body of the Lord as he hung on the Cross, dying, it all came together for the Apostles when the flames of fire danced above their heads.

    That's what I believe.


    Peace be with you,
    ~VOW
     
  5. isshinwhat

    isshinwhat Pro Deo et Patria

    +605
    Eastern Orthodox
    Amen, VOW! Can you imagine being present at the meal that celebrated the Passover with the One who brought it about! Whew!

    I've always found these passages interesting. It recounts the Apostles' first recognition of the Risen Christ.

    Luke 24
    30 When he was at table with them, he took the bread and blessed, and broke it, and gave it to them.
    31 And their eyes were opened and they recognized him; and he vanished out of their sight.


    34 who said, "The Lord has risen indeed, and has appeared to Simon!" 35 Then they told what had happened on the road, and how he was known to them in the breaking of the bread. 36 As they were saying this, Jesus himself stood among them.

    Come Lord Jesus!

    Neal
     
  6. Lizzi4Christ

    Lizzi4Christ I'm worth waiting for.

    +116
    Baptist
    Engaged
    US-Others
    I want to post something on this, but I'm really too depressed to get into details. i have experienced the "real presence" of God. He hugged me just now.
     
  7. PrinceJeff

    PrinceJeff Well-Known Member

    +0
    :) the best hug you could ever get!
     
  8. SSPX

    SSPX Member

    135
    +0


    I say, Communion is what it is regardless of what you want it to be, just like 1+1=2 regardless of whether you believe 1+1=4 instead. Truth is not relative, its objective, and stays true even if no one believes it.


    Joe
     
  9. ZooMom

    ZooMom Thanks for the memories...

    +983
    United States
    Catholic
    Married
    "Taste and see the Goodness of the Lord. Taste and see."

    We sing this psalm during Communion. It elevates and humbles me at the same time. I am very often moved to tears at the Consecration..."Lord, I am not worthy to receive You, but only say the word and I shall be healed."...that just says it all. I am forever grateful for the Gift we have been given in the Eucharist.

    This will sound weird, but every time I go into the church, I feel a sigh go through my whole body. Tension, stress, worry...it all melts away, and the only word to describe my thought is, "Safe". I'm safe, I'm home, I'm in the Presence of the One who is the whole reason for my life and I'm always reluctant to leave. If I wasn't a wife and mother, I would be a contemplative Religious. I could stay on my knees adoring Him for hours. Maybe that's escapism, but a truer peace I can't imagine.
     
  10. Hoonbaba

    Hoonbaba Catholic Preterist

    +39
    Catholic
    o_O!?!? Now I know I HAVE to read Scott Hahn's "The Lamb's Supper"!!!! I had NO idea this is how the Catholic church understood communion!!

    My church values communion a bit more than simply symbolic, especially when scripture says: "this is my body". Yet it's so clear to me that I had little knowledge about the reality of the Eucharist!!

    Thank you for sharing! =)

    -Jason
     
  11. Hoonbaba

    Hoonbaba Catholic Preterist

    +39
    Catholic
    I'm a protestant, and I also meet with Christ everyday. It's awesome! In fact I love experiencing God daily. It's great stuff! =) And God commands it (i.e. love the lord your God, etc)

    Yet, scripture also tells us that fellowship is necessary with others (I.e. love your neighbor as yourself). Fortunately my church has awesome fellowship, but I think fellowship in the Catholic church goes much deeper levels.

    God bless!

    -Jason
     
  12. Hoonbaba

    Hoonbaba Catholic Preterist

    +39
    Catholic
    By the way, what exactly is Transubstantiation?

    God bless!

    -Jason
     
  13. VOW

    VOW Moderator

    +15
    Catholic
    Married
    To Jason:

    Open a new thread, Hon, and sit back and prepare to be amazed at what Jesus left for us!


    Peace be with you,
    ~VOW
     
  14. PrinceJeff

    PrinceJeff Well-Known Member

    +0
    Transubstantiation is a teaching/doctrine/dogma (whatever you want to call it) of the Catholic church. It is the belief that when a priest consecrates the bread and wine/juice during holy communion, a miracle occurs where the bread and juice/wine become the actual body and blood of Jesus Christ. I think they base this on passages like Matthew 26:26-29 and Luke 22:17-22. Of course if you follow the links given you, you can find more information as well for ye self.

    So guys, did I explain it right from a non-catholic perspective? :)
     
  15. AlphaPhi

    AlphaPhi Member

    279
    +0
    Close, except for the wine/juice comment. It must be wine, alcoholic wine. Grape juice, or non-alcoholic wine is not proper substance for the Sacrament.
     
  16. PrinceJeff

    PrinceJeff Well-Known Member

    +0
    You know what.....they drank wine on passover and at Last Supper.....it works for me now. :)

    I didn't know whether or not all churches used wine or not, so that's why the "wine/juice" thing. The insistence on non-alcoholic juice is definitely a "fundy" ideal.
     
  17. VOW

    VOW Moderator

    +15
    Catholic
    Married
    To Jeff:

    Transubstantiation also needs John 6, "The Bread of Life Discourse" to fully understand. But yes, you do have the basics.


    Peace be with you,
    ~VOW
     
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