Protein configurations

[essentialsaltes]

'They assume the shapes that natural forces push them into.'

... the Natural Forces of the Gaps! Excellent.

No, primarily electromagnetism, which is perfectly cromulent, and gapless.

Gravity is a sufficient explanation for the shattering glass, even if we have no way of calculating the result beforehand. There is no 'gap' remaining that demands explanation.

 

[sfs]

You really haven't grasped the meaning of non-locality, have you?

I think I've got a decent handle on it.

It means originating from outside of space-time, ergo, 'supernatural' by definition; from outside teh natural world, ergo, 'magic'. We passed beyond the Newtonian mechanistic paradigm 80 plus years ago!

You don't, though.

 

[Papias]

Paul, back in post #4, I asked you, as a fellow member of our Holy Church, you were aware of the RCC stance on evolution. I see that you've been back to this thread, and wonder if you just missed post #4. For your convenience, here it is:

Paul wrote:

All explicable by random chance, of course...

Paul, are you aware that the Vatican and recent Popes have come out again and again in support of evolution? Evolution is acceptable for Catholics accoring to Papal encyclicals Vatican statments, Papal statements, and more. Please do read what our Holy Father has written about evolution. He has written extensively about it, supports it, and doesn't see it as causing any problems for Christian faith

Here is a large paper overseen by the Pope on this:

Cardinal Ratzinger and International Theological Commission on Creation and Evolution

From it:

Since it has been demonstrated that all living organisms on earth are genetically related, it is virtually certain that all living organisms have descended from this first organism. Converging evidence from many studies in the physical and biological sciences furnishes mounting support for some theory of evolution to account for the development and diversification of life on earth, while controversy continues over the pace and mechanisms of evolution. While the story of human origins is complex and subject to revision, physical anthropology and molecular biology combine to make a convincing case for the origin of the human species in Africa about 150,000 years ago in a humanoid population of common genetic lineage. However it is to be explained, the decisive factor in human origins was a continually increasing brain size, culminating in that of homo sapiens. With the development of the human brain, the nature and rate of evolution were permanently altered: with the introduction of the uniquely human factors of consciousness, intentionality, freedom and creativity, biological evolution was recast as social and cultural evolution.



In Christ -

Papias

​

*************************

Also, as OnceDec kindly helped clarify, this includes still seeing the hand of God in the process - since God works through natural means in our world.

Thanks for clarifying your OP for us.

In Christ-

Papias

 

[Papias]

Bumping this now that Paul is back on another thread. Paul?

 

[Kylie]

'....a relatively small protein of only 100 amino acids can take some 10^100 different configurations. If it tried these shapes at the rate of 100 billion a second, it would take longer than the age of the universe to find the correct one. Just how these molecules do the job in nanoseconds, nobody knows.,,,'

... from Bornagain77's #37

All explicable by random chance, of course...

You really don't get evolution, do you? It's not random.

If I have 100 coins and I want them to be all heads, I could go along, flip each one and try to get all heads. And if they are ALL heads, I could flip them all again. How long would it take for me to get all heads? Yes, it would take me ages.

But what if I only flip the ones that were tails? If the coin was already heads, I'd leave it alone. By only flipping the coins that were tails, I'd get there much faster. Probably only a few minutes.

 

[paul becke]

I expect of course you will be telling us next it is all explainable using magic.

I prefer to call it, 'the supernatural action of God' - which somehow seems uniquely plausible - given the absence of other contenders.

 

[CabVet]

I prefer to call it, 'the supernatural action of God' - which somehow seems uniquely plausible - given the absence of other contenders.

And I prefer to call it God of the Gaps.

 

[justlookinla]

You really don't get evolution, do you? It's not random.

Interesting. You're claiming that.....evolution is made, done, happening, or chosen WITH method or conscious decision?

If I have 100 coins and I want them to be all heads, I could go along, flip each one and try to get all heads. And if they are ALL heads, I could flip them all again. How long would it take for me to get all heads? Yes, it would take me ages.

But what if I only flip the ones that were tails? If the coin was already heads, I'd leave it alone. By only flipping the coins that were tails, I'd get there much faster. Probably only a few minutes.

Would this not suggest that evolution is 'wanting' something....some outcome? Then the evolutionary process is apparently directed by a 'wanted' outcome.

 

[paul becke]

And I prefer to call it God of the Gaps.

Not Multiverse of the Gaps? My! My!

 

[CabVet]

Not Multiverse of the Gaps? My! My!

And if we lived just a few hundred years ago you would be saying that people getting the flu and then getting rid of it was the work of the supernatural. So, yeah, God of the gaps.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Interesting. You're claiming that.....evolution is made, done, happening, or chosen WITH method or conscious decision?



Would this not suggest that evolution is 'wanting' something....some outcome? Then the evolutionary process is apparently directed by a 'wanted' outcome.

Nope, you still have it misunderstood. Its not random, and its not conscious, and its not directed by a "wanted" outcome.

Its driven by relative reproductive success. What reproduces better, takes over as opposed to what doesn't.

Naturally. How could it not?

 

[Loudmouth]

I prefer to call it, 'the supernatural action of God' - which somehow seems uniquely plausible - given the absence of other contenders.

I wasn't aware that faith based beliefs could be considered contenders. Care to explain?

 

[HitchSlap]

You really haven't grasped the meaning of non-locality, have you? It means originating from outside of space-time, ergo, 'supernatural' by definition; from outside teh natural world, ergo, 'magic'. We passed beyond the Newtonian mechanistic paradigm 80 plus years ago!

Are you a fan-boy of Deepocket Chopra?

 

[Papias]

Paul B, did you see posts #4, 23, and 24?

Paul, back in post #4, I asked you, as a fellow member of our Holy Church, you were aware of the RCC stance on evolution. I see that you've been back to this thread, and wonder if you just missed post #4. For your convenience, here it is:

Paul wrote:

All explicable by random chance, of course...

Paul, are you aware that the Vatican and recent Popes have come out again and again in support of evolution? Evolution is acceptable for Catholics accoring to Papal encyclicals Vatican statments, Papal statements, and more. Please do read what our Holy Father has written about evolution. He has written extensively about it, supports it, and doesn't see it as causing any problems for Christian faith

Here is a large paper overseen by the Pope on this:

Cardinal Ratzinger and International Theological Commission on Creation and Evolution

From it:

Since it has been demonstrated that all living organisms on earth are genetically related, it is virtually certain that all living organisms have descended from this first organism. Converging evidence from many studies in the physical and biological sciences furnishes mounting support for some theory of evolution to account for the development and diversification of life on earth, while controversy continues over the pace and mechanisms of evolution. While the story of human origins is complex and subject to revision, physical anthropology and molecular biology combine to make a convincing case for the origin of the human species in Africa about 150,000 years ago in a humanoid population of common genetic lineage. However it is to be explained, the decisive factor in human origins was a continually increasing brain size, culminating in that of homo sapiens. With the development of the human brain, the nature and rate of evolution were permanently altered: with the introduction of the uniquely human factors of consciousness, intentionality, freedom and creativity, biological evolution was recast as social and cultural evolution.



In Christ -

Papias


​

*************************

Also, as OnceDec kindly helped clarify, this includes still seeing the hand of God in the process - since God works through natural means in our world.

Thanks for clarifying your OP for us.

In Christ-

Papias
​

 

[Kylie]

Interesting. You're claiming that.....evolution is made, done, happening, or chosen WITH method or conscious decision?

No. There is no intelligent agency guiding evolution. There is no end outcome for evolution. But the lack of intelligent action does not mean that it is random.

Would this not suggest that evolution is 'wanting' something....some outcome? Then the evolutionary process is apparently directed by a 'wanted' outcome.

Oh come on. This has been explained to you countless times. How do you not understand it by now?

In my example, imagine that heads increase the fitness of the collection of coins. The more heads, the better. But 99 tails and 1 head is going to be fitter than 100 tails and 0 heads.

In the same way, an animal that is still developing an adaptation may be fitter even with half an adaptation. We can see this in real life: sugar gliders have flaps of skin between their legs which allow them to glide. This may one day evolve into a fully fledged wing. But for today, skin flaps serve them and increase their fitness.

Same thing with only a few tails in the coins. Evolution works with what is already there. Works withthe sugar gliders, works with the coins.

 

[paul becke]

Nope, you still have it misunderstood. Its not random, and its not conscious, and its not directed by a "wanted" outcome.

Its driven by relative reproductive success. What reproduces better, takes over as opposed to what doesn't.

Naturally. How could it not?

------------------------------

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1oaPcK-KCppBztIJmXUBXTvZTZ5lHV4Qg_pnzmvVL2Qw/edit
​

 

[paul becke]

No. There is no intelligent agency guiding evolution. There is no end outcome for evolution. But the lack of intelligent action does not mean that it is random.



Oh come on. This has been explained to you countless times. How do you not understand it by now?

In my example, imagine that heads increase the fitness of the collection of coins. The more heads, the better. But 99 tails and 1 head is going to be fitter than 100 tails and 0 heads.

In the same way, an animal that is still developing an adaptation may be fitter even with half an adaptation. We can see this in real life: sugar gliders have flaps of skin between their legs which allow them to glide. This may one day evolve into a fully fledged wing. But for today, skin flaps serve them and increase their fitness.

Same thing with only a few tails in the coins. Evolution works with what is already there. Works withthe sugar gliders, works with the coins.

----------------------

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1oaPcK-KCppBztIJmXUBXTvZTZ5lHV4Qg_pnzmvVL2Qw/edit
​

 

[Dizredux]

------------------------------

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1oaPcK-KCppBztIJmXUBXTvZTZ5lHV4Qg_pnzmvVL2Qw/edit
​

And if you believe the Theory of Evolution is pseudo science then I have a very good bridge to sell you. Half price...today and today only.


Dizredux

 

[Papias]

Paul B, I see that you've posted twice more on this thread, so you must have seen my post #34, above. Do you have a response? Just a simple "Yes I'm aware of that", even?

Or posts #4, 23, and 24?

In Jesus Name-

Papias

 

[Kylie]

----------------------

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1oaPcK-KCppBztIJmXUBXTvZTZ5lHV4Qg_pnzmvVL2Qw/edit
​

Yeah, pretty much everything in that is completely wrong. Evolution has been observed, and it has left a huge amount of evidence behind in both the fossil record, living species and DNA evidence.

In short, evolution happens, deal with it.

(And you did not deal at all with ANYTHING I said in my previous post. If you have something of value to contribute to the discussion, please post it.)