Protecting your family

[Zoii]

This was a thread started in a section where only Christians could contribute. But it has ramifications for Christians and Non-Christians alike - So, First acknowledging the original author @Adino The Eznite with the thread titled "SELFE DEFENSE IS GOD ORDAINED" (his spelling not mine)
This is the verbatum detail of his post
God’s all for self defense, in fact if a man fails in defending his own life and the lives of his family God says he's nothing more than a poisoned spring! "A troubled fountain, and a corrupt spring." (Proverbs 25:26).

Proverbs 25:26
26 A righteous man who falters before the wicked is like a murky spring and a polluted well.

1 Timothy 5:8
8 But if anyone does not provide (protection) for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

It seems to me, the so called religious politicians of this world, people like former Prime minister of Australia, John Howard for an example seem to know more than God has revealed to mankind in general in His book the Bible, and so John Howard and his aids decided God doesn't know what He is talking about regarding self defense and decided to overrule the God he believes in, and he Ruled Over us, the people who elected him to rule the country only, and banned all weapons of self defense and made self defense illegal.

 

[Zoii]

I wanted the right of reply as an Australian.
First of all some background -
The Event: In 1996 a single individual, using a semi-automatic weapon, shot and killed 35 people and wounded an additional 26.

The Response: The then conservative Prime Minister, John Howard, took the unpopular and brave step of repealing all such weapons. That is - all citizens owning such weapons had to hand them in and were provided monetary compensation. Laws were passed to prevent owning military grade weapons and owning any firearm would have strict licence requirements.

The Outcome: There have been ZERO mass shooting since. The conservative PM went on to become Australia's longest serving PM and gained the respect of both sides of politics for his stand on firearms.

The biblical Verses
The verses quoted by the original OP by @Adino The Eznite have been twisted and subverted to imply that in not owning a gun, one fails in the duty to protect your family.

As John Howard was quoted as saying, given that most firearm deaths are a result of a domestic violence incident or suicide, removing firearms will protect the family from disgruntled hapless men (statistically firearm murders are predominantly by men, visited upon their family).

 

[Zoii]

EDIT:
Actually there has been ONE mass shooting (shooting killing 5 or more):
2018 A father shot his wife, her father, his four children, then himself. Again destroying the OP's theory that owning a gun protects the family. Indeed it reinforced John Howard's view that the family is safer without a gun in the house - It protects them from hapless men.

 

[Adino The Eznite]

D

 

[Lazarus Long]

Hi Zoii,
I have had firearms since I was 12 years old. Mine must all be faulty because not one of them has ever taken upon itself to go and kill someone? Should I take them to a gunsmith and have them checked??

People kill people not guns. Just like cars don't kill people. Many people are killed in motor vehicle accidents, drunk drivers, texting while driving, falling asleep, drug driving, the list goes on. Maybe we should ban cars?

Graph Road Fatalities Australia. 1925 to 2019. Over 3'500 in the 70's.
View attachment 271391

I see your into climate change causes Global Warming. I agree, the climate does change.

Australia wakes to snow in New South Wales, Queensland and Victoria | Daily Mail Online
View attachment 271392

How many times have you used your guns to defend your family?

 

[Occams Barber]

I wanted the right of reply as an Australian.

Thanks @Zoii
As another Australian I’d also like a right of reply in case @Adino The Eznite (the original poster) leaves readers with the impression that he in any way represents any significant body of Australian opinion on gun control.

In March 2018 Essential media surveyed 1027 Australians on their attitude to Australian gun control law. In response to the question “Do you think that Australia’s gun control laws are too strict, too weak or about right?” Australians responded as follows:

• Don’t know – 7%
  
• Too strict – 7%
  
• About right - 62%
  
• Too weak - 25%

In other words, almost 90% of Australians support restrictive Australian gun laws, with a significant 25% believing they are not strict enough. These results were consistent across all demographic and political groups apart from the over-65s who voted 42% for “Too weak”.

These results are consistent with similar surveys conducted in 2015 and 2016.

https://www.essentialvision.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Essential-Report_270318.pdf

A few months ago we found out that a couple of fringe, right wing political buffoons met with the NRA in the US. The purpose of the meeting was too drum up NRA support in an attempt to develop a campaign against Australian gun laws. After we stopped laughing, the reaction here was overwhelmingly negative. This negative reaction included members of existing gun clubs. It was obvious that the NRA has no clue about the depth of feeling here when it comes to opposition to easy access to guns.

OB

 

[Tinker Grey]

How many times have you used your guns to defend your family?

I've been married 35 years; lived in 4 states; have 3 daughters; Never once have I felt I've been a situation where having a gun would make me safer. Not once.

Even if someday I find myself in such a situation, I hope that, post mortem (not literally), I realize that the odds of it happening again are extremely low and I avoid the temptation to succumb to paranoia. (OTOH, I've done some target shooting with a borrowed gun, and I can see how it is fun.)

 

[Lazarus Long]

deleted

 

[Adino The Eznite]

D

 

[Occams Barber]

I have had firearms since I was 12 years old. Mine must all be faulty because not one of them has ever taken upon itself to go and kill someone? Should I take them to a gunsmith and have them checked??

People kill people not guns.

Guns are enablers. They make it easy for people to kill or injure other people, including themselves, through homicide, suicide or accident. (https://www.vox.com/2015/10/1/18000520/gun-risk-death). The more guns there are the greater the risk that they will be available to criminals. The more guns there are the bigger the statistical risk to all of us. Gun control is a little like vaccination - group participation protects us all.
OB

 

[Strathos]

If you need a gun to protect your family, you should probably move somewhere else, if possible.

 

[Lazarus Long]

Hi Lazarus.

Once. We were camping, hunting, fishing, invited with permission on my employers on property. We were approached by trespassers who threatened to rob us of our vehicle and all our gear. They also had their eyes on my daughters.
Fortunately I was near my vehicle and I immediately pulled my short barrel Remington 10 shot lever action shotgun out of my 4X4, racked it, pointed it and said, "Anyone of you or all of you,come one step closer and I will fire." The group of attackers threatening me, my wife and daughters turned and ran as fast as they could. I reported this to the police as soon as we arrived home and the local sargent said, "Thank GOD you had your shotgun with you.

Where was this?

 

[Zoii]

Mine must all be faulty because not one of them has ever taken upon itself to go and kill someone? Should I take them to a gunsmith and have them checked??

Your reply does not contradict the facts that I've posted in posts # 2 & 3.

Your testimony that you own a gun and as yet haven't killed anyone, does not change the facts Ive outline and, indeed, it is of no comfort to anyone - Particularly given your rather odd next statement

People kill people not guns. Just like cars don't kill people. Many people are killed in motor vehicle accidents, drunk drivers, texting while driving, falling asleep, drug driving, the list goes on. Maybe we should ban cars?

That is the most bizarre statement - but I know its not original - Can you guess which PR machine first coined that response - guess!!

But na - People kill, many using weapons - and your OP raised one weapon in particular - guns.

For some reason you then went into some bizarre concern about people falling asleep driving and then arguing that we dont ban cars so..... and this you feel is logical.

And this folks is why Australia keeps a tight rein on guns.

I see your into climate change causes Global Warming. I agree, the climate does change.

And in case you haven't deflected the issue away from the fact that in your original OP you failed to disclose:
a) The event that precipitated the current gun laws
b) The efficacy in Australia of those gun laws
c) That in fact the most gun deaths were suicide and family violence
d) That as a democratic society, Australians have spoken loud and clear they don't want people running around with guns.
e) That the PM turned out to be our longest serving PM and is lauded for his stance on guns
f) That IF you have either a workplace requirement for a gun, OR your sport necessitates a gun, there are provisions within law to allow that.

So - choosing not to mention that you then try to deflect the facts and say - hey everyone!!!! look over there - climate change. Meh - doesnt work. You are not sticking to the OP and that is a breach of the rules on CF. Stick to the OP please. If you want to talk about climate change choose another thread and I'll be happy to educate you.

 

[Zoii]

Hi Lazarus.

Once. We were camping, hunting, fishing, invited with permission on my employers on property. We were approached by trespassers who threatened to rob us of our vehicle and all our gear. They also had their eyes on my daughters.
Fortunately I was near my vehicle and I immediately pulled my short barrel Remington 10 shot lever action shotgun out of my 4X4, racked it, pointed it and said, "Anyone of you or all of you,come one step closer and I will fire." The group of attackers threatening me, my wife and daughters turned and ran as fast as they could. I reported this to the police as soon as we arrived home and the local sargent said, "Thank GOD you had your shotgun with you.

Oh dear Lord. You talk about guns not killing in one thread and now talking about waving your shotgun around, purporting to defend against a gang of attackers who sniped their way onto your friends property - I'm sure all readers here are silently looking at each other going...Ah huh. Thats pretty major stuff (Well in Australia it is at least) - Im sure it would have hit the media because if I know anything about gun lobbies - they maximize media of such instances. Would you mind attaching the link please.

 

[Occams Barber]

Hi Zoii,
I have had firearms since I was 12 years old. Mine must all be faulty because not one of them has ever taken upon itself to go and kill someone? Should I take them to a gunsmith and have them checked??

People kill people not guns. Just like cars don't kill people. Many people are killed in motor vehicle accidents, drunk drivers, texting while driving, falling asleep, drug driving, the list goes on. Maybe we should ban cars?

Graph Road Fatalities Australia. 1925 to 2019. Over 3'500 in the 70's.
View attachment 271391

I see your into climate change causes Global Warming. I agree, the climate does change.

Australia wakes to snow in New South Wales, Queensland and Victoria | Daily Mail Online
View attachment 271392

The above picture, which you present as if it relates to snow in Australia, is actually taken from Twitter
Mike Hamernik on Twitter

It's a shot of cars iced-in on the shoreline of Lake Geneva in Switzerland.

OB

 

[Zoii]

The above picture, which you present as if it relates to snow in Australia, is actually taken from Twitter
Mike Hamernik on Twitter

It's a shot of cars iced-in on the shoreline of Lake Geneva in Switzerland.

OB

Amazing piece of photography though.

 

[Zoii]

There is a concerning trend though. While gun ownership per capita is plummeting, the ones that do own guns in Australia are becoming increasingly obsessive. As the media reports:

Australians now own more guns in total than they did before the 1996 crackdown, according to figures from 2016 - the last time they were comprehensively studied.

That amounts to more than three million firearms, according to separate government statistics.

But gun ownership per capita has dropped by 23% during the same time, said Associate Prof Philip Alpers from the University of Sydney.

"Far fewer people now have a gun in their home but some people have a lot more guns," Associate Prof Philip Alpers told the BBC. In the past 30 years, the number of households with at least one gun has declined by 75%

Is their political support for @Adino The Eznite view? Well in my state of WA: Premier Mark McGowan described Australia as "an example to the rest of the world" about the need for strict gun laws.

 

[Kylie]

Hi Zoii,
I have had firearms since I was 12 years old. Mine must all be faulty because not one of them has ever taken upon itself to go and kill someone? Should I take them to a gunsmith and have them checked??

By the same logic, my seatbelts must be faulty because not once have they saved my life in the event of a crash.

People kill people not guns.

By the same logic, baseball bats don't hit home runs, but I don't see Mike Trout hitting them out of the park with his bare hands, do you?

Just like cars don't kill people. Many people are killed in motor vehicle accidents, drunk drivers, texting while driving, falling asleep, drug driving, the list goes on. Maybe we should ban cars?

No, but we should make sure that people pass tests to get a license to drive a car, they need to have insurance, and people who disobey the road rules are penalized and even banned from driving if the commit multiple violations of the road laws.

Graph Road Fatalities Australia. 1925 to 2019. Over 3'500 in the 70's.
View attachment 271391

Looks to me this graph is showing that as rates of car ownership increased, fatalities increased as well until the 80s and 90s when safety systems and better regulation of vehicular maintenance standards started making cars safer.

I see your into climate change causes Global Warming. I agree, the climate does change.

Australia wakes to snow in New South Wales, Queensland and Victoria | Daily Mail Online
View attachment 271392

In related news, lots of people ate today, so starvation is obviously a myth.

That's weather, not climate. Climate is the long term trend, not the day to day weather.

 

[Kylie]

Hi Lazarus.

Once. We were camping, hunting, fishing, invited with permission on my employers on property. We were approached by trespassers who threatened to rob us of our vehicle and all our gear. They also had their eyes on my daughters.
Fortunately I was near my vehicle and I immediately pulled my short barrel Remington 10 shot lever action shotgun out of my 4X4, racked it, pointed it and said, "Anyone of you or all of you,come one step closer and I will fire." The group of attackers threatening me, my wife and daughters turned and ran as fast as they could. I reported this to the police as soon as we arrived home and the local sargent said, "Thank GOD you had your shotgun with you.

God thing those trespassers didn't have guns, or things could have ended very badly!

Or do you think making it easier for them to get guns would have been a good thing?

 

[Zoii]

I wanted to challenge you further on your statement - and also the Meme you posted

People kill people not guns

Could you explain how Mahatma Gandhi was an advocate of gun rights.

Could you also explain how Hitler was an advocate of gun control given his culpability for WWII, The Hitler Youth, Child soldiers.... I mean he was happy to hand out guns to 11 year old kids - thats pretty loose control.

I'm posting this because I'm challenging the veracity of your statements and the evidence behind the claims you make.