prosperity?

[JHara]

Hello all, need a little advice here. My girlfriend just quit going to the church which she has been going to for the majority of her life. It is a "faith based" church. I don't know how all faith based church's believe seeing as how I haven't been to them all, but I did attend this church for numerous years and they more or less believe that anything can be accomplished through having faith in Jesus. By His stripes our wounds were healed is a very common scripture quoted in this church. Fairly sound doctine it seemed to me, but she has become extremely upset about how they view God's willingness to work miracles. Apparently the pastor of this church claims that if you don't have "prosperity" in your life then you just don't have enough faith. She went through the same distress couple of months ago because this pastor taught the same thing about being healed of sickness. ( my girlfriend's sister is quite sick ) I'm getting ready to start my own study on how prosperous God really intends us to be in this lifetime. Would appreciate other opinions on this as well as maybe a starting point for my own study. Thanks

 

[LivingWorship]

JHara... perceptive post. I find myself not agreeing with the prosperity slant... I realise God is capable and does "bless" with wealth for SOME. But IMHO (and the WOFers will refute this in the coming minutes and hours) this is not a blanket promise to the world. The only thing Jesus told us we could expect is persecution. Some will be poor, Godly or otherwise (remember the sun shines on good and evil???) and it is unfair to attribute this to a lack of faith... I have said it before... the faithfulness of many a member of the persecuted church leaves our Western idea of faith in God for dead... they simply cling to God, not caring where their next meal will come from or whether they will be imprisoned for preaching the Word of God.

JHara, I would urge you to seek God beacuse I am sure I haven't got this one all right, but am also sure the WOF picture is also incomplete... but the bottom line is Jesus... if God is the only God and if you can believe in Jesus' sacrfice, ad that He is Lord and risen etc... that's the issue. Bless you as you search, may the Lord make His face shine on You...

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I discovered early that if we get rid of the religious ideas that say "poverty is next to godliness" then things work out. God has nothing against us prospering. He is not happy about people loving money... but you do not have to be prosperous to do that. Some of the worse money grubbers I have ever met were as poor as dirt. Some of the most joyful believers I have met were millionaires who cared little or nothing for "things" of this world.
People who have "issues" with money and prosperity usually have bigger problems at deeper levels.

God wants you to prosper. He wants you healthy. He places no merit on poverty.

Jos 1:8
8 the book of this law doth not depart out of thy mouth, and thou hast meditated in it by day and by night, so that thou dost observe to do according to all that is written in it, for then thou dost cause thy way to prosper, and then thou dost act wisely.

Psa 1:3
3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.

Psa 35:27
27 Let them shout for joy, and be glad, that favour my righteous cause: yea, let them say continually, Let the LORD be magnified, which hath pleasure in the prosperity of his servant.

1Co 16:2
2 Upon the first [day] of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as [God] hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

3Jo 1:2
2 Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

 

[Godz Marine]

Genesis 12:3
And I will bless those who bless you [who confer prosperity or happiness upon you] and [To look with disfavor on the Jews was to invite God's displeasure; to treat the Jews offensively was to incur His wrath. But to befriend the Jews was to bring down upon one's head the rewards of a promise that could not be broken.] curse him who curses or uses insolent language toward you; in you will all the families and kindred of the earth be blessed [and by you they will bless themselves].[Gal. 3:8.]
(Whole Chapter: Genesis 12 In context: Genesis 12:2-4)

Deuteronomy 28:11
And the Lord shall make you have a surplus of prosperity, through the fruit of your body, of your livestock, and of your ground, in the land which the Lord swore to your fathers to give you.

1 Samuel 2:32
And you shall behold the distress of My house, even in all the prosperity which God will give Israel, and there shall not be an old man in your house forever.

Job 36:11
If they obey and serve Him, they shall spend their days in prosperity and their years in pleasantness and joy.

Psalm 35:27
Let those who favor my righteous cause and have pleasure in my uprightness shout for joy and be glad and say continually, Let the Lord be magnified, Who takes pleasure in the prosperity of His servant.

Psalm 68:6
God places the solitary in families and gives the desolate a home in which to dwell; He leads the prisoners out to prosperity; but the rebellious dwell in a parched land.

Psalm 89:24
My faithfulness and My mercy and loving-kindness shall be with him, and in My name shall his horn be exalted [great power and prosperity shall be conferred upon him].

Psalm 112:3
Prosperity and welfare are in his house, and his righteousness endures forever.

Save now, we beseech You, O Lord; send now prosperity, O Lord, we beseech You, and give to us success!

Psalm 122:7
May peace be within your walls and prosperity within your palaces!

14
He has lifted up a horn for His people [giving them power, prosperity, dignity, and preeminence], a song of praise for all His godly ones, for the people of Israel, who are near to Him. Praise the Lord! (Hallelujah!)

Isaiah 48:18
Oh, that you had hearkened to My commandments! Then your peace and prosperity would have been like a flowing river, and your righteousness [the holiness and purity of the nation] like the [abundant] waves of the sea.

Isaiah 58:8
Then shall your light break forth like the morning, and your healing (your restoration and the power of a new life) shall spring forth speedily; your righteousness (your rightness, your justice, and your right relationship with God) shall go before you [conducting you to peace and prosperity], and the glory of the Lord shall be your rear guard.[Exod. 14:19, 20; Isa. 52:12.]

Jeremiah 33:9
And [Jerusalem] shall be to Me a name of joy, a praise and a glory before all the nations of the earth that hear of all the good I do for it, and they shall fear and tremble because of all the good and all the peace, prosperity, security, and stability I provide for it.

Ezekiel 35:9
I will make you a perpetual desolation and your [The Edomites gave whatever help they could to Nebuchadnezzar when he captured Judah (Ps. 137:7; Obad. 11-14). Later these cousins of the Israelites were pushed out of their own country into southern Judea; Hebron became their chief city. When in A.D. 70 the Romans under Titus besieged Jerusalem, Josephus says that the Edomites joined the Jews in rebellion against the attackers, and 20,000 were admitted into the city as defenders of the Holy City. But once in, they pillaged the city, raping and killing, not even sparing the priests--though these traitors themselves had been previously forced to become circumcised and recognized as Jews. The Roman conqueror slew them, and Edom ceased to be. The forecasts of the prophets regarding Edom are in striking contrast to those of their neighbors, Moab and Ammon. The latter two countries were to suffer great and severe judgments, as was Edom. But restoration and renewed prosperity were promised to them "in the latter days" (Jer. 48:47; 49:6), while Edom was never to be rebuilt. This is all obviously nearing fulfillment in the twentieth century. Truly Edom is the scene of "a perpetual desolation," with no hint of restoration.] cities shall not be inhabited. Then you will know, understand, and realize that I am the Lord [the Sovereign Ruler, Who calls forth loyalty and obedient service].

Haggai 2:9
The latter glory of this house [with its successor, to which Jesus came] shall be greater than the former, says the Lord of hosts; and in this place will I give peace and prosperity, says the Lord of hosts.

Zechariah 1:17
Cry yet again, saying, Thus says the Lord of hosts: My cities shall yet again overflow with prosperity, and the Lord shall yet comfort Zion and shall yet choose Jerusalem.

Zechariah 8:12
For there shall the seed produce peace and prosperity; the vine shall yield her fruit and the ground shall give its increase and the heavens shall give their dew; and I will cause the remnant of this people to inherit and possess all these things.

Peter 1:2
May grace (God's favor) and peace (which is [Matthew Henry, Commentary on the Holy Bible.] perfect well-being, all necessary good, all spiritual prosperity, and [Webster's New International Dictionary offers this as a definition of "peace."] freedom from fears and agitating passions and moral conflicts) be multiplied to you in [the full, personal, [Joseph Thayer, A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament.] precise, and correct] knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.

(all scriptures are out of the Amplified version of the Bible)

As we can see the Bible has a lot to say concerning our prosperity. Of course there is much to be said concerning the danger and deception of prosperity. We see that prosperity comes from God and He delights in giving it to His servants. We can also see in Isaiah especially that we need to harken, to heed to His Word (Isaiah 48:18). Yes, our faith is required not only for God's prosperity but also healing and most importantly our very salvation. Scripture tells us we cannot even please God without faith.

Now don't get me wrong, I am not saying that Godly prosperity is one that makes us filthy rich with money and material goods as we perceive. God's prosperity frist and foremost brings peace. The bleesings of the Lord makes one rich but adds no sorrow to it. To be rich in the properity of God simply means that we are full of what we need. That we will have an abundance at times but this abundance is not for us. It has been given to us so that we have to give.

I am out of time this morning and have to be off for work, God's source of prosperity for me. My wage has nearly tripled since I started 8 years ago and in a couple of months I will be receivng another $2 an hour! God says that as we honor Him He will honor us and see to it that we have honor among men!!!

 

[victoryword]

Hello all, need a little advice here. My girlfriend just quit going to the church which she has been going to for the majority of her life. It is a "faith based" church. I don't know how all faith based church's believe seeing as how I haven't been to them all, but I did attend this church for numerous years and they more or less believe that anything can be accomplished through having faith in Jesus. By His stripes our wounds were healed is a very common scripture quoted in this church. Fairly sound doctine it seemed to me, but she has become extremely upset about how they view God's willingness to work miracles. Apparently the pastor of this church claims that if you don't have "prosperity" in your life then you just don't have enough faith. She went through the same distress couple of months ago because this pastor taught the same thing about being healed of sickness. ( my girlfriend's sister is quite sick ) I'm getting ready to start my own study on how prosperous God really intends us to be in this lifetime. Would appreciate other opinions on this as well as maybe a starting point for my own study. Thanks

I am a firm believer in Jesus willingness to heal in response to faith and prayer. It is seen throughout the Bible, especially in the gospels. James 5:14-16 makes it clear that healing can be appropriated by faith. This passage is irrefutable.

Prosperity is not so easily defined in Scripture, because their are different levels of prosperity. What may be "prosperity" to one person may not be the same to another. Success and prosperity are synonymous terms. It is clear to me that God's will for the believer is financial prosperity and 2 Cor. 9:6-12 makes this absolutely clear. Again, this is another irrefutable passage.

However, my problem with the pastor and church that you describe (provided that you are giving an accurate description) is the legalism and condemnation that he seems to be placing on people. If he is making people feel small and faithless because they have not received healing then he is preaching the message incorrectly. If he is making people feel that they must be at a certain level of prosperity before they can be considered great Christians who are full of faith then he has taken the message to an extreme unintended by God.

We should never reject a message because some preach it incorrectly. Sometimes people cannot receive healing by their faith alone. They need the whole church praying. They need committed Christians to stand with them and encourage them. The same is true with prosperity. People need help getting on their feet until they are able to trust God for themselves. No manmade time limit should be placed on either. Only when God says, "Let them walk on their own" is when we should let go.

We should remember in our doctrine of healing and prosperity the mercy and love of God. God does not frown on us because we are sick or poor.

On the other hand, if people simply are not choosing to meditate on Scripture, believe it, and claim its benefits, there is something to be said about that as well. The pastor has a right to chastize such people because they are a burden on the church. I know this for a fact as I am in pastoral ministry. People simply will make numerous excuses for why they will not believe God and expect you to understand and sympathize, when basically they are being disobedient and unkowingly calling God a liar.

The key to everything is BALANCE. Teach the truth but teach it with love and iwthout condemnation. Do not reject the truth because someone else is preaching it wrong. You simply take the truth and preach it the way it should be preached.

 

[riverpastor]

I would like to add a measure of understanding grace into the picture.

I tell my congregation all the time, "I don't teach 'prosperity' but I do teach 'provision'."

2 Corinthians 8:9 - "For you are becoming progressively acquainted with and recognizing more strongly and clearly the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ (His kindness, His gracious generosity, His undeserved favor and spiritual blessing), [in] that though He was [so very] rich, yet for your sakes He became [so very] poor. in order that by His poverty you might become enriched (abundantly supplied).

It is obvious that Christ not only took our sin on the Cross with Him but also our sickness and disease and according to this scripture we can deduct that He also took on the curse of poverty.

I would like to throw out something to all: that sickness and disease and poverty is just as much a SPIRITUAL problem as is sin and iniquity.

And I'm not talking about just not having "enough faith".

I'm saying that we need to learn to appropriate the goodness that we DO POSSESS in Christ to benefit our temporal lives.

We often live in this temporal realm trying to make it through prayer or belief into the eternal realm. We are already seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus. We should be living in the eternal realm INTO this temporal realm.

Philippians 4:11 - (AMP) Not that I am implying that I was in any personal want, for I have learned how to be *content (Literal Translation: self-sufficient) (satisfied to the point where I am not disturbed or disquieted) in whatever state I am in.

Verse 13b - I am self-sufficient in Christ's sufficiency.

When we realize that our provision and sufficiency is in Christ and Christ alone, then truly His sufficiency becomes ours.

Remember that in Matthew 6:33 He tells us to "Seek first the kingdom of God..." and the things needed will be added unto us.

The most important thing about the Kingdom is the King. And it is not about seeking the King for a handout.

When we meditate on Who He is in His Kingdom we begin to see Him as our Resource and Provision. In the Old Testament account of Abraham offering Isaac on the mountain, Abraham calls the place Jehovah-Jireh (JahoveH) which doesn't translate as the Lord is Provider but is literally, the "Lord causes to see". The Lord revealed to Abraham that the ram was caught in the thicket. The Lord causes us to see His Provision when we look at Him.

We need to peer into the Kingdom to see this. Just because it is like looking through a darkened glass, doesn't mean that we do not attempt to peer through to it.

We must see Jesus.

Blessings,

riverpastor

 

[Jim B]

I believe that if God was as preoccupied with money as we are, He would believe in the prosperity gospel, too.

When does our preoccupation with prosperity become the “love of money” and the pursuit of Mammon?

\o/

 

[LynneClomina]

i think it's really unfair for ppl to say, you are not healed/prosperous becuase you lack faith. becuase faith is not something we can muster up in ourselves, it is a gift. if you do not have a revelation of faith that God is going to heal YOU, then that's ok. it's not in His timing or plan at this time. i for example, have a revelation of faith (for ME) that even in my illness and relative poverty, i have all i need (more than) and am able to do all the things that God wants me to do, in HIS strength, not mine. in my weakness, He is strong. i have the faith to live by that.

now i have a friend who has a minor health issue, and you'd think it was the end of the world cuz she doesnt get it - why she hasnt' been healed??? she cannot reconcile God with her condition. she says she has faith to have it healed, but then it doesnt heal, and she is in turmoil, not peace. because she believes that healing will ALWAYS come if you have enough faith. so her goal seems to be get faith get faith get faith. i'm not healed so i need more faith. what's wrong with me, it's not healed yet. condemnation galore.

back to prosperity, i believe in prosperity.... but i think we dont recognize it when we got it. i am on disability benefits, which aint much, but i am so blessed with little sources of additional income, a supportive family, a nice clean non-moldy 2 bedroom unit in a four-plex, with a 12x12 patch of lawn or so, and a back step with enough room for a bbq if i ever manage to get one! and i have a computer, and my mom has her own car now so i can learn to drive! and i'm feeling like i am relatively independant despite my disability, and am working 8 - 12 hours a week at the first job i've been able to have (and i'm 30!)....etc..... and i am so blessed and so prosperous and i dont deserve any of it. there are ppl who live in mud huts and what not, why should i not feel poor? i have faith to tithe first, and leave the bills to God, so to speak. it will all be taken care of. i am a daughter of the King, he's taking care of me. i have a rich Daddy. i have faith to FEEL prosperous. i hope one day to marry and have a "real" home for my family.... so to some degree i want "more".... but i have to be responsible with what i have first. God is teaching me how to be a good steward. the better steward i am, the more he will entrust to my care. and that's not just money. that's possesions, home, influence, ministry. it's more of GOD, not more of MAMMON that i want!

and therein lies the difference.

sorry i digressed, i hope its ok.

 

[Jim B]

sorry i digressed, i hope its ok.

Tha'ts more than okay. You digressed beautifully and you are a rich person, Lynne. And you are right, we spoiled American's need to rethink what true prosperity really is?

\o/

 

[JHara]

Thank you all for your posts. I certainly would not say that God does not want us to be prosperous, but is it really good doctine to teach that if someone is not, then they don't have enough faith. The only example which I can think of at the moment is Job. It's possible there's a difference because of the fact that it's old testament, but is there any scripture to back that up? My girlfriend also says she believes that "by His stripes you were healed" is referring to spiritual healing and not physical healing. Of course you can't argue the fact that God did heal people in the old and new testament alike, but because someone isn't getting healed does that mean they just don't have faith? Thanks

 

[Jim B]

Thank you all for your posts. I certainly would not say that God does not want us to be prosperous, but is it really good doctine to teach that if someone is not, then they don't have enough faith. The only example which I can think of at the moment is Job. It's possible there's a difference because of the fact that it's old testament, but is there any scripture to back that up? My girlfriend also says she believes that "by His stripes you were healed" is referring to spiritual healing and not physical healing. Of course you can't argue the fact that God did heal people in the old and new testament alike, but because someone isn't getting healed does that mean they just don't have faith? Thanks

Hey J,

It's not about our faith. It's about Him. Lynne put it beautifully in post #8 above when she said:

i think it's really unfair for ppl to say, you are not healed/prosperous becuase you lack faith. becuase faith is not something we can muster up in ourselves, it is a gift. if you do not have a revelation of faith that God is going to heal YOU, then that's ok. it's not in His timing or plan at this time. i for example, have a revelation of faith (for ME) that even in my illness and relative poverty, i have all i need (more than) and am able to do all the things that God wants me to do, in HIS strength, not mine. in my weakness, He is strong. i have the faith to live by that.

now i have a friend who has a minor health issue, and you'd think it was the end of the world cuz she doesnt get it - why she hasnt' been healed??? she cannot reconcile God with her condition. she says she has faith to have it healed, but then it doesnt heal, and she is in turmoil, not peace. because she believes that healing will ALWAYS come if you have enough faith. so her goal seems to be get faith get faith get faith. i'm not healed so i need more faith. what's wrong with me, it's not healed yet. condemnation galore.

Jim
\o/

 

[victoryword]

Thank you all for your posts. I certainly would not say that God does not want us to be prosperous, but is it really good doctine to teach that if someone is not, then they don't have enough faith. The only example which I can think of at the moment is Job. It's possible there's a difference because of the fact that it's old testament, but is there any scripture to back that up? My girlfriend also says she believes that "by His stripes you were healed" is referring to spiritual healing and not physical healing. Of course you can't argue the fact that God did heal people in the old and new testament alike, but because someone isn't getting healed does that mean they just don't have faith? Thanks

JHara

First, no one can simply say that a person lacks prosperity due to a lack of faith without first talking to the individual to see where they are at in their spiritual walk. The best you can do is teach what God's Word says on these subjects without throwing in any judgments concerning the faith of your hearers.

Now, if people are believing something contrary to what God's Word says or if they have to reinterpret Scripture to fit a theology that disputes what Scripture is plainly teaching then it is right to say that the person lacks faith. For example, if someone took 2 Cor. 9:6-12 and said that they don't believe that this passage applies to them, that is a good reason to say that the individual lacks faith. We can judge a person's level of faith based on their acceptance or lack of acceptance of Scripture, but we cannot judge their faith based on circumstances.

Concerning Job, remember that at the end of the story Job became more prosperous than he was previously and had his health restored to him. He lived a very long life. If Job is to be used as an example then one must take the WHOLE story. James 5:11 teaches us that we must read Job to see the END of the Lord. Too many want to focus on Job's sufering while negkecting His victorious outcome.

Concerning "by His stripes we were healed" (1 Pet. 2:24). I have written an outline defending physical healing based on this passage. You can read it here if you have Acrobat Reader:

http://www.victoryword.100megspop2.com/sermons/1pet224.pdf

But even if 1 Pet. 2:24 could be proven to be only spiritual healing (whatever that is since there is no such phrase in the Bible), a person would still have a difficult time disproving Matt. 8:17 is not in reference to healing in the atonement. Furthermore, James 5:14-16 is an undisputable passage that guarantees that God heals and is willing to heal in this age. It is irrefutable. A person would have to be an expert Scripture twister to make it say anything else.

Now, does the person lack faith if they are not healed? That is not for me to say without spending some time in counseling with the person. I know from experience that some prefer to keep their sickness. Others have a difficult time believing that God will heal THEM. Some simply need others to stand in faith with them and pray with them. We should have compassion on people and help them build faith.

However, we should not build a theology of unbelief and call it "compassion." God's Word remains true in spite of our experiences. However, we canot judge anyone's faith before we have spent time with them to know where they are at - unless we receive a revelation from God.

 

[Jim B]

Good post VW.

However ...

However, we should not build a theology of unbelief and call it "compassion."

... I do not believe anyone in this forum is guilty of this although some have been accused of it (not by you, but by others).

Jim
\o/

 

[JHara]

Thanks victoryword, just did a quick readover of your link but will definitely study it a bit more in depth after work. I definitely feel that there's enough scripture in the bible to say that God does heal, and God does bless people with earthly prosperity. But, at the same time does God not allow us to be tested? Even I was raised to believe that anything good that happens to you God blessed you, but anything bad that happens to you then the devil had his hand in. The book of Job made me view this a little differently though. God did bless Job abundantly for his faith, but then God allowed satan to take everything Job had in order to test him more or less.
Job 1: 20 "Job stood up and tore his robe in grief. Then he shaved his head and fell to the ground before God. He said, "I came naked from my mother's womb, and I will be stripped of everything when I die. The Lord gave me everything I had, and the Lord has taken it away. Praise the name of the Lord!" In all of this, Job did not sin by blaming God."
Then Job's friends came to him and told him he was sick becuase lack of faith. Now in the end God scolded Job's friends and restored Job's wealth back to him. But Job never lacked in faith.

Just wondering everyone's take on this. I'm not really lookin for a debate here, just want to know the truth. Thanks

 

[LivingWorship]

Yeah JHara... I believe you are spot on... while God can and does bless in physical terms, he can also withhold that - irrespective of whether we have the "faith" or not. You correctly point out that Job was faithful yet lost all his physical well being. God wasn't punishing him... but testing him to ascertain where his true love was.

Romans 8 reminds us that all things (whether good or bad) work out for good for the people of God... so God may ALLOW (not necessarily orchestrate) bad things to happen to you but He has his reasons and it's all about His love for us, not because He wants to see us suffer. It's like the butterfly...

Have you heard the story where a butterfly was emerging from its cocoon one day, when a man stopped to observe. He then noticed that the butterfly was struggling, making no progress. Out of sympathy, the man grabbed a scissor and carefully cut the cocoon, setting the hapless insect free! Out came a beautiful monarch butterfly.

But then something tragic happened... the butterfly looked all shriveled and wet, its wings clung to its body. It couldn't flap, it couldn't move them very much and thus couldn't fly. Tragic... the science here is that the butterfly needs that struggle in breaking free of the cocoon. This vital action gets blood pumping into its legs and wings, drying up the wetness from pupating. Because the "struggle" was short circuited the butterfly never learnt to fly

A bit long winded, and I apologise. This is not exactly from the Bible in this sense but the wisdom of this story rings true nonetheless. While it's well and good to say God wants his children to prosper and yes he does... he also allows us to suffer trial in order to build us up... NO PAIN, NO GAIN. Food for thought. God bless you

 

[victoryword]

Thanks victoryword, just did a quick readover of your link but will definitely study it a bit more in depth after work. I definitely feel that there's enough scripture in the bible to say that God does heal, and God does bless people with earthly prosperity. But, at the same time does God not allow us to be tested?

It all depends on what you mean by "test". If we read through the Bible, not everyone was "tested" in the same exact way. Everyone believes that they must be tested like JOB. However, Job had unique circumstances. First off, Job was filthy rich and had many sons and daughters. When he was tested, he lost all. Yet, he did not stay in this condition. After he passed the test, twice what he lost was restored to him. People seem to want the test without the end results. I cannot figure out this masochistic desire to be tested without the end results promised.

Abraham had a test too and his was different from Job. He was asked to sacrifice the life of his only son. When Abraham passed the test - he was blessed.

Certainly Christians will be tried and tested, persecuted and chastized. That does not mean that we will all be tested in the same way and in every test we should come out victorious. If a person has cancer and dies, that is not a test, that is an execution. A victorious test is if a person gets cancer, they continue to trust God and worship Him while trusting His Word, not allowing themselves to be bitter or angry during their time of trial. The victory comes when they are HEALED.

Even I was raised to believe that anything good that happens to you God blessed you, but anything bad that happens to you then the devil had his hand in. The book of Job made me view this a little differently though. God did bless Job abundantly for his faith, but then God allowed satan to take everything Job had in order to test him more or less.

This shows me that you and I are reading the book of Job differently. For me, the book of Job simply proves what you said in the beginng, that anything bad, the devil has his hand in it. God did ask Satan if he considered his servant Job, but God was not the one who suggested having Job lose everything. Satan suggested this in order to prove to God that Job worships God only for what he could get from him (Gee, that sounds like a familiar mantra on this forum). God allowed Satan to do this so that he could prove to Satan and the rest of the universe that He actually has servants who love Him simply out of the love itself and not what the love can bring.

Furthermore, Job did NOT know who was behind His troubles, thus Job continually blamed God for the problems he faced. Job had an excuse. Today, we have been given much more revelation concerning Satan and our authority over him. God does not tell us to simply allow Satan to walk all over us. We are told to:

Resist The Devil (James 4:7; 1 Pet. 5:8, 9)

Stand against him (Eph. 6:10-12)

Give him no place (Eph. 4:27)

Take authority over him (Luke 10:17-20)

Cast him out (Mark 16:15-20)

Jesus has defeated our enemy (1 John 3:8; Heb. 2:14; Col. 2:15) and we are no longer under Satan's authority (Col. 1:12-13). Why should I have to aloow Satan to do as he wish in my life and submit to it, believing that this is so because God allowed it? Should I not obey the Bible which tells me exactly what I am to do with satanic attacks?

Job 1: 20 "Job stood up and tore his robe in grief. Then he shaved his head and fell to the ground before God. He said, "I came naked from my mother's womb, and I will be stripped of everything when I die. The Lord gave me everything I had, and the Lord has taken it away. Praise the name of the Lord!" In all of this, Job did not sin by blaming God."
Then Job's friends came to him and told him he was sick becuase lack of faith. Now in the end God scolded Job's friends and restored Job's wealth back to him. But Job never lacked in faith.

Just wondering everyone's take on this. I'm not really lookin for a debate here, just want to know the truth. Thanks

JHara, you have to remember that though Scripture is inspired by God, not everything in Scripture is considered words from God. God inspired certain things to be recorded that were not from Him. For example, the Bible contains words from both devils and evil men. Those statements are not considered God's Words though they are recorded in God's Word.

Job was a righteous man and his heart was right, but not everything he said was right. For example, Job claims that God laughs at the trials of innocent people:

If the scourge slay suddenly, he will laugh at the trial of the innocent. (Job 9:23)
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Job accuses God of being very unfair, showing favoritism to wicked people and not punishing them:

"Yet the wicked get away with it time and time again. They rarely have trouble, and God skips them when he distributes sorrows in his anger. (Job 21:17 (NLT)
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Furthermore, Job accuses God of being a ruthless predator who arbitrarily destroys him for fun (e.g. Job 10:8–10, 16:7–17; 30:18, 21). So if you want to say that Job was accurate in the statements most often quoted by him (The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away) then you will have to say that God does the other things that Job accuses Him of doing. Furthermore, when you read Job you must remember that at one point God actually rebuked Job for some of the things he said. So EVERYTHING that Job spoke about God was not always accurate.