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Props to Sophia!

NightEternal

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Yes Sophia, you and others are valiantly standing your ground!

I could weep. It warms my heart to see the Gospel of salvation being presented so clearly in the sinless perfection thread.

This post by Eila was beautiful! :thumbsup:

http://foru.ms/showpost.php?p=40108101&postcount=184

Free nails it dead-on! :clap:

http://foru.ms/showpost.php?p=40100657&postcount=156

Of course, RC makes me laugh with his witty sarcasm! ^_^

http://foru.ms/showpost.php?p=40105433&postcount=176

Stormy, Moicheri and the rest, you guys rock! Keep it up and don't let up on this wretched doctrine! Pound it into the dust where it belongs!

Perhaps it is better I am not able to participate. There are too many personal issues for me to be objective or rational in discussing this false belief. I would go in there like a bull in a china shop and probably cause more damage than anything. :sigh:

So, I will content myself with the role of the football player who has been forced to the sidelines because of injury and cheer you on!
 
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NightEternal

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In case some have not read the testimony of my tumultuous journey with this insidious doctrine, here it is again:

Night, could it be that you have seen so much trauma caused by hypocritical fanatics in the name of "Character Development" (who themselves conspicuously lacked Christian Character) and Perfection (who themselves were pursuing it in the least Godly, most Satanic way) that you have become the bitter and determined enemy of God making people perfect?

And by the way, I probably do not agree with Crews, Andreasen, or some obscure quotes by EGW on the subject. Remember, I have to agree with you that I don't believe in the classical Adventist concept of perfection that has been taught in the past.

Hi Tela.

No, the behavior of the perfectionists only confirmed many things for me. I was already convinced of my position prior.

Perhaps I should share a brief synopsis of my own personal journey as it relates to perfection, it may help you understand a little better where I am coming from. At the risk of being mocked or criticized by some Trads, I will do it, because I feel you genuinely care about what I think on the matter.

My first encounter with sinless pefection was not with EGW, suprisingly, but M.L. Andreason. I was still young in the faith in the late 80's and there was a historical Adventist fellow who made it his mission to indoctrinate new converts to his way of thinking. He aggressively attempted to force his understanding of final generation perfection theology onto me, and M.L. Andreason was his hero. Even as a new Adventist I knew what he was pushing onto me was terribly wrong and not Biblical. My Christianity has always been Christocentric, not egocentric. Just to get him off my back, I decided to read some of Andreason's stuff. I couldn't even get halfway through it. The sinless perfection stuff was just so foreign to what I had read in the Bible, especially Romans, I knew that anything that gave me such a sick feeling in my belly had to have problems. What I found interesting was that his premises were all based upon EGW. I filed that in the back of my mind for later consideration. My knowledge of EGW was meager at best during this stage of the game.
I just told this guy I was not interested and he backed off. But as I spent more and more time in the church, I encountered more of these people in and out of my local fellowship, and they promoted this stuff like it was going out of style. I came across fundamentalist websites that promoted the belief as well.

Then, Ralph Larson was the big name. His book The Word Was Made Flesh was circulating around TSDA circles. In it, Larson tries to make a case for the heresy of Christ having a sinful, fallen nature. His promotion of such a thing naturally involved sinless perfection theology. Once again, his entire premise was based on EGW. This was another book I couldn't stomach, and I threw it in the garbage after about 3 pages. Then it was Joe Crews who was introduced to me. His books Reaping The Whirlwind, and Creeping Compromise were the most horrible literary exeriences I have ever had, at least as far as I got in each of them. They both ended up in the trash as well.

He also stressed sinless perfection and rooted it firmly in the writings of EGW.

One thing I noticed about all three authors is that they all had a warped idea of what perfection entailed and had interpreted certain Bible texts in a way that would never align with what Paul stresses in his epistles. I had to figure out what the common thread was with these men and this understanding. Since they all relied heavily on EGW, that seemed a reasonable place to start.

I decided then and there I had to find out for myself what she said on the matter.

My fears had been confirmed. EGW did indeed believe and promote sinless perfection, final generation theology. She had interpreted the perfection texts in the exact same way. I wondered how she could have strayed so far from the idea of resting in Christ's perfection. I discovered that she had come out of the Methodist church, so I decided to research what Wesley had to say on the issue. Sure enough, it was like reading SDA salvation theology.

I got a copy of Questions On Doctrine and researched the history of what went into formulating that book. It turns out that in thier discussions with Barnhouse and Martin, Froom and the others had to answer for the sinless perfection theology making the rounds in the church at the time. The Evangelical leaders made it clear to Froom that sinless perfection was a heresy that could not be tolerated in the SDA church if it wanted to be classified as a truly Evangelical, Protestant denomination instead of a cult. Froom agreed and repudiated sinless perfection, claiming that only a fringe element in the church believed it. Unfortunately, the belief was more widespread than Froom led on. Indeed, at that time it was reaching epidemic proportions, a fact Walter Martin would learn only after his book Kingdom Of The Cults would be published.

I endured Sabbath after Sabbath of people stressing how we must be perfect before Christ returns and that our characters are the only thing we take to Heaven. Assurance of salvation was non-existent. It was all a behavior focused understanding of sin rather than the fact that we have the sin condition.

Finally, I could endure no more of the emphasis on making ourselves worthy for Heaven and perfecting our characters 'with Christ's help'.

I was a corrupted, rotten sinner and I knew it. There was no way I could even for a second entertain the idea that I had it in me to reach the standard of perfection that Heaven required. At this time, many around me were purging themselves of thier sins through a constant regime of guilt and shame. I was not even going to go there and play that game with God. I knew I was a sinner and I knew He knew this fact and always had. Did these people honestly think that tinkering with a few behavioral sins here and there was going to do one single thing to remedy the sinful nature we inherited from Adam?

It was during this time that I left the church for a few years, for various reasons which you can read about in the testimonial section of the forum.

When I returned to the church, I was determined to resolve this issue for myself. Ironically, it was a friend from a different denomination who introduced me to Luther and his writings. I plunged myself into intensive study of Luther's materials on salvation and it was like water to a man dying of thirst. This Catholic reformer was articulating exactly what had been burning in my heart all along. Our perfection was in Christ alone, imputed to us to stand in our place. The idea of character perfection came to my mind, and the idea that it is only our physical bodies that are glorified, nothing else. This had been pounded into my brain by some in the Adventist church. But this premise was nowhere to be found in Luther's writings.

WHERE was this reoccuring premise coming from?!

I researched EGW again, thinking maybe she was where the idea originated. Sure enough, there it was. It was all based upon a misinterpretation of a single text, the one which speaks about incorruptible and immortality. She only applied this to the physical body and held that it was left to us to have our characters perfected before Christ returned so we could be taken to Heaven. Luther never made this application. Indeed, he maintained that glorification transformed us back into the sinless state of Adam before the fall and that Christ was the One who glorified with no help from us.

I wondered why this was not being taught in a church that made the boastful claim of being heirs to the Reformation and true Protestantism. Why, then, was there more Rome than anything else in our understanding of perfection? I became angry that this lifegiving Good News was being withheld from the membership in favor of bankrupt sinless perfection theology. I was in despair, dying for the Gospel that would set me free from works-based perfection. I couldn't take it anymore and decided I was going to leave Adventism altogether if the Gospel was not going to be preached. Then, something life-changing happened. I got ahold of sermon tapes and books by a man who I will forever be indebted to for keeping me in this church.

Desmond Ford.

I knew nothing about the man. I knew nothing about Glacierview, nothing about his issues with the IJ.
What I did know was that he was preaching and teaching the Gospel the way I had read Luther present it. I thought I was going to die from joy. Here was an Adventist minister who really did get it. I devoured everything he put out on salvation theology.

In the course of things, I did become aware of his issues with the IJ. It was not a real concern for me at the time. What stuck out for me was that in Ford's polemics against the IJ, he also struck a fatal blow in the very area that I was struggling with-sinless perfection theology. Ford demolished it. He clearly showed how the word 'perfection' was badly misunderstood in some TSDA circles. He showed how the actual meaning was closer to maturity and completeness, an attitude of obedience.

I was in Heaven! I had to find more stuff on Ford. Where was he preaching? Was he still in Australia? Could we get him to come to Canada? I had to get more teaching tapes! (Remember, I knew next to nothing about the actual man.)

Then someone in my church informed me about Glacierview and how Ford had been fired in the early 80's. I went home that day with a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach. It couldn't be true! I went online and typed in 'Glacierview'. I read it all in Raymond Cottrell's minutes on the Spectrum website. Everything, the whole disgraceful story. I read how after Ford was fired, the witchhunt that followed ended in the termination of over 100 ministers who supported Ford and preached justification by faith alone.

I got up from my computer and threw myself on my bed in tears.

I wept and wept and wept and wept. I couldn't stop. I stayed in there for two full days, just curled in a ball and weeping. I didn't even eat. I have never really come to terms with what the church did to him. I probably never will.

The one man who I finally discovered was preaching Luther's salvation theology, who had brought some sanity into a world of sinless perfection insanity, had been fired. Stripped of his ministerial credentials. Treated as a pariah, demonized and regarded as next to Satan himself in TSDA circles. MY church did this. It was almost too much to bear.

I finally dragged myself from my bed and went back online. I read the ultra-conservative hate rhetoric towards Ford. I read how they had celebrated and rejoiced when Ford was axed.

I hated them. They became my sworn enemies from that day forward. To this day I still pray God will help me with the anger I feel toward certain Trads and thier disdain for Ford and Luther's salvation theology. And every time I think I am getting a handle on it, they come at me again with the cheap grace/sloppy agape jabs and rekindle the old hatred.

But I was determined to stay in the church. I would not let them rob me of my heart's desire. My search began for anyone in the church who was teaching salvation the way Ford did. Finally, I came across the man who had mentored Ford himself: Edward Heppenstall.

If I would have been able to physically do so at the time, I would have kissed that man. Never had I read such a devastating polemic against sinless perfection. So complete, so thorough. Heppenstall made mincemeat out of it, and he had the scholarly credentials to back it. He knew the original meanings of the words in the texts in question. His final premise was what I had known all along: We are not sinlessly perfect until glorification. Not before. For every bit of sinless perfection nonsense Herbert Douglass dished out, Heppenstall had a counter-rebuttal. It was a thing of beauty. Douglass didn't have a leg to stand on. Elder Heppenstall revived my faith in Adventism. Then I read George Knight, Hans LaRondelle and others. I finally realized that there were more in the church than I had first thought, in high places at Andrews Theological Seminary and in administration, who had rejected sinless perfection theology!

To this day I still feast on the words of these men and Luther. Paul's writings have never been clearer for me.

Christ is my perfection, imputed to me. I don't have to worry about my salvation or 'perfecting' my character. Christ has done it all and His merits and perfection are enough to make me worthy.

Hallelujah! :clap:

That is my story and no one has to like it.

Hope this helps Tela.

http://foru.ms/t6085163
 
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Mankin

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Yes Sophia, you and others are valiantly standing your ground!

I could weep. It warms my heart to see the Gospel of salvation being presented so clearly in the sinless perfection thread.

This post by Eila was beautiful! :thumbsup:

http://foru.ms/showpost.php?p=40108101&postcount=184

Free nails it dead-on! :clap:

http://foru.ms/showpost.php?p=40100657&postcount=156

Of course, RC makes me laugh with his witty sarcasm! ^_^

http://foru.ms/showpost.php?p=40105433&postcount=176

Stormy, Moicheri and the rest, you guys rock! Keep it up and don't let up on this wretched doctrine! Pound it into the dust where it belongs!

Perhaps it is better I am not able to participate. There are too many personal issues for me to be objective or rational in discussing this false belief. I would go in there like a bull in a china shop and probably cause more damage than anything. :sigh:

So, I will content myself with the role of the football player who has been forced to the sidelines because of injury and cheer you on!

Somebody give these guys a prise woot! The perfection theology belongs with the Pharisees whom Jesus calls a brood of snakes. Woot.:clap:
 
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sentipente

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I almost violated my FSB by posting in that thread. Here is what I almost posted.

People have stopped believing in Jesus Christ so it was a no-brainer of a prediction. There is not one single visionary who has not lost followers. Anyone who suggests that statement is a prophecy needs to have certain parts of his anatomy examined.
 
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freeindeed2

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Christ is my perfection, imputed to me. I don't have to worry about my salvation or 'perfecting' my character. Christ has done it all and His merits and perfection are enough to make me worthy.
Oh praise Jesus! Someone else who completely gets it! Amen! Amen! and Amen! Truer words were never spoken! RIGHT ON NIGHT!!!
 
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NightEternal

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:sigh: Sinless perfection claims yet another victim:

Jeanne 15.10.07 / 3am
Mr. Kukolja,
Thank you so much for posting the beautiful essay on the atonement.
Unfortunately, I was hindered all my life as an SDA in studying the bible and thinking for myself, because I truly believed that Ellen White was God’s mouth piece and that God had given her the message of the Sanctuary/Investigative Judgement doctrine. It was only until I became aware that she had false visions, concerning the shut door/ close of probation on Oct. 22 1844, and that this has been deleted and covered up for generations, that I could begin to think outside the box. Ellen no longer stands between me and my Jesus. My life is directly in contact with Him and I am free to study God’s word without her interpretation on everything. She has presented much truth, for which I appreciate, but slipped many strychnine capsules in her writings also. Such as the following:
“Those only who through faith in Christ obey all of God’s commandments will reach the condition of sinlessness in which Adam lived before his transgression. They testify to their love of Christ by obeying all his precepts” (Manuscript 122, 1901, quoted in the Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary, vol. 6, p. 1118).
“If we live a life of perfect obedience, His promises will be fulfilled toward us: T.Vol 2 pg. 122
“If they will live according to every word, He has spoken, every good word and promise will be fulfilled unto them. But if they come short of perfect obedience, the grand and precious promises are afar off, and they cannot reach the fulfillment.” T. Vol 2 pg. 148
“Each one of you needs to … [be] working with your might to redeem the failures of your past life. God has placed you in a world of suffering to prove you, to see if you will be found worthy of the gift of eternal life” (Testimonies for the Church, Vol. 3, p. 530).
As the Son of man was perfect in His life, so His followers are to be PERFECT in their life. A well-balanced character is formed by single ACTS WELL PERFORMED. One defect, cultivated instead of being overcome, makes the man imperfect, and closes against him the gate of the Holy City. . . . In all the redeemed host not one defect will be seen. . . . ” The Faith I Live By, page 44,
When the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own.” {COL 69.1}
“The Christian life is constantly an onward march. Jesus sits as a refiner and purifier of His people: and when His image is perfectly reflected in them, they are perfect and holy, and prepared for translation” Vol 1 page 340
EGW “Those who accept the Saviour, however sincere their conversion, should never be taught to say or feel that they are saved. … Those who accept Christ, and in their first confidence say, I am saved, are in danger of trusting to themselves” (Christ’s Object Lessons, p. 155).
This takes away all assurance of Salvation, for in our hearts, we all know we still make mistakes. The bible says, “he who says he is perfect, is a liar” It leaves us constantly looking at ourselves to see how successful we are in attaining total perfection. It leaves others in the church policing each other when they see errors.
I know there are EGW statements that indicate other then this, but this is the problem, she goes in every direction with her authoritative statements. It has caused total confusion in the camp. When one has been taught and sincerely believes that he must ultimately live in a perfect condition, for a whole year, without a mediator in the Sanctuary, it is terrifying to say the least.
The Investigative Judgement doctrine, as most Adventist pastors teach it, is a doctrine of devils. It completely takes away our assurance of Salvation. We are continually left HOPING that we are going to make it.

I do not judge Ellen White. I leave that to God alone. But I no longer believe that everything she wrote was inspired and equal with the bible. Unfortunately, much of her early statements which would enlighten, have been deliberately deleted. Why is this? The answer is obvious.
The reason that the SDA church is in such a crisis, is that they cannot refute the 2300 day Sanctuary doctrine and all of it’s ramifications, without destroying the prophet to the remnant church. It’s a no win situation. Ellen White gives terrifying statements for those who turn their backs on the sanctuary doctrine. Unfortunately, the whole movement was built on the 1844 doctrine, which EGW says is the pillar of the church. Take that away, and the whole movement ceases to exist.
Our faith must be built on Jesus or we have nothing. “He that hath the son, hath life”

http://progressiveadventism.com/200...ure-of-adventism-a-response-to-bull-lockhart/

When will we finally seriously consider the the thousands of casualties littering our denominational landscape as a result of this demonic doctrine? :(
 
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sentipente

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Wow EGW actually said that one should not be assured of their salvation? That's crap to put it strongly. It is totally unbiblical.
That was certainly not the message she intended. EGW is a victim of shortsighted individuals who fail to take all factors into consideration.
 
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NightEternal

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Bravo RC!! :thumbsup: Nice.

http://foru.ms/showpost.php?p=40137220&postcount=202

It's amazing the circular reasoning I am seeing here by the perfection proponents. They will stop at nothing. No mental or verbal gymnastics are too ludicrous in trying to defend this bankrupt understanding. :doh:

Even in the report section they are desperately trying to make a case for this preposterous idea that the church officially teaches it. Now they even want to maintain that the Church Manual teaches it as well! NOT.
 
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Sophia7

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Wow EGW actually said that one should not be assured of their salvation? That's crap to put it strongly. It is totally unbiblical.

That was certainly not the message she intended. EGW is a victim of shortsighted individuals who fail to take all factors into consideration.

Could you explain a bit please? An example would help.

Do these arguments sound familiar, anyone?
Those who are teaching this doctrine today have much to say in regard to faith and the righteousness of Christ; but they pervert the truth, and make it serve the cause of error. They declare that we have only to believe on Jesus Christ, and that faith is all-sufficient: that the righteousness of Christ is to be the sinner's credentials; that this imputed righteousness fulfills the law for us, and that we are under no obligation to obey the law of God. This class claim that Christ came to save sinners, and that He has saved them. "I am saved," they will repeat over and over again. But are they saved while transgressing the law of Jehovah?--No; for the garments of Christ's righteousness are not a cloak for iniquity. Such teaching is a gross deception, and Christ becomes to these persons a stumbling block as He did to the Jews,--to the Jews, because they would not receive Him as their personal Saviour, to these professed believers in Christ, because they separate Christ and the law, and regard faith as a substitute for obedience. They separate the Father and the Son, the Saviour of the world. Virtually they teach, both by precept and example, that Christ, by His death, saves men in their transgressions. {BEcho, February 8, 1897 par. 7}
And here are a few more of her comments:
We are never to rest in a satisfied condition, and cease to make advancement, saying, "I am saved." When this idea is entertained, the motives for watchfulness, for prayer, for earnest endeavor to press onward to higher attainments, cease to exist. No sanctified tongue will be found uttering these words till Christ shall come, and we enter in through the gates into the city of God. Then, with the utmost propriety, we may give glory to God and to the Lamb for eternal deliverance. As long as man is full of weakness,--for of himself he cannot save his soul,--he should never dare to say, "I am saved." It is not he that putteth on the armor that can boast of the victory; for he has the battle to fight and the victory to win. It is he that endureth unto the end that shall be saved. The Lord says, "If any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him." If we do not go forward from victory to victory, the soul will draw back to perdition. We should raise no human standard whereby to measure character. We have seen enough of what men call perfection here below. God's holy law is the only thing by which we can determine whether we are keeping his way or not. If we are disobedient, our characters are out of harmony with God's moral rule of government, and it is stating a falsehood to say, "I am saved." No one is saved who is a transgressor of the law of God, which is the foundation of his government in heaven and in earth. {RH, June 17, 1890 par. 8}
________________________________________________

The work of sanctification is the work of a lifetime; it must go on continually; but this work cannot go on in the heart while the light on any part of the truth is rejected or neglected. The sanctified soul will not be content to remain in ignorance, but will desire to walk in the light and to seek for greater light. As a miner digs for gold and silver, so the follower of Christ will seek for truth as for hidden treasures, and will press from light to a greater light, ever increasing in knowledge. He will continually grow in grace and in the knowledge of the truth. Self must be overcome. Every defect of character must be discerned in God's great mirror. We may discover whether or not we are condemned by God's standard of character. If you are condemned, there is but one course for you to pursue: you must repent toward God because of the transgression of his law, and have faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ as the one who only can cleanse from sin. If we would obtain heaven, we must be obedient to God's holy requirements. Those who strive lawfully will not strive in vain. Only believe the truth as it is in Jesus, and you will be strengthened for the battle with the powers of darkness. The wrestlers of old strove to obtain a perishable crown, and should we not strive to win the crown that fadeth not away? Every art and device of Satan will be used to accomplish our ruin. If you sit down with the ease-loving ones, with the words on your lips, "I am saved," and disregard the commandments of God, you will be eternally lost. There is truth in Jesus that is terrible to the ease-loving, do-nothing ones. There is truth in Jesus that is full of soothing joy to the obedient. It is the joy of the Holy Ghost. Be persuaded, then, to open the mind and heart, that you may see every ray of light shining from the throne of God. This is no time to be indifferent and careless and pleasure-loving. Christ is coming with power and great glory. Are you ready? Are you putting away your sins? Are you becoming sanctified through the truth in answer to the prayer of Christ? He prayed concerning his disciples, "Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth." {RH, June 17, 1890 par. 14}
________________________________________________

"Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. . . . For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also." It is essential to have faith in Jesus, and to believe you are saved through him; but there is danger in taking the position that many do take in saying, "I am saved." Many have said: "You must do good works, and you will live;" but apart from Christ no one can do good works. Many at the present day say, "Believe, only believe, and live." Faith and works go together, believing and doing are blended. The Lord requires no less of the soul now, than he required of Adam in paradise before he fell,--perfect obedience, unblemished righteousness. The requirement of God under the covenant of grace is just as broad as the requirement he made in paradise,--harmony with his law, which is holy, and just, and good. The gospel does not weaken the claims of the law; it exalts the law and makes it honorable. Under the New Testament, no less is required than was required under the Old Testament. Let no one take up with the delusion so pleasant to the natural heart, that God will accept of sincerity, no matter what may be the faith, no matter how imperfect may be the life. God requires of his child perfect obedience. {RH, November 1, 1892 par. 1}
________________________________________________

There are many who claim that they have been sanctified to God, and yet when the great standard of righteousness is presented to them, they become greatly excited, and manifest a spirit which proves that they know nothing of what it means to be sanctified. They have not the mind of Christ; for those who are truly sanctified will reverence and obey the word of God as fast as it is opened to them, and they will express a strong desire to know what is truth on every point of doctrine. An exultant feeling is no evidence of sanctification. The assertion, "I am saved, I am saved," does not prove that the soul is saved or sanctified. Many who are greatly excited are told that they are sanctified, when they have no intelligent idea of what the term means; for they know not the Scriptures nor the power of God. They flatter themselves that they are in conformity to the will of God, because they feel happy; but when they are tested, when the word of God is brought to bear upon their experience, they stop their ears from hearing the truth, saying, "I am sanctified," and that puts an end to the controversy. They will have nothing to do with searching the Scriptures to know what is truth, and prove that they are fearfully self-deceived. Sanctification means very much more than a flight of feeling. Excitement is not sanctification. Entire conformity to the will of our Father which is in heaven is alone sanctification, and the will of God is expressed in His holy law. The keeping of all the commandments of God is sanctification. Proving yourselves obedient children to God's word is sanctification. The word of God is to be our guide, not the opinions or ideas of men. Let those who would be truly sanctified search the word of God with patience, with prayer, and with humble contrition of soul. Let them remember that Jesus prayed. "Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth." {RH, March 25, 1902 par. 8}

Christianity is simply living by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. We are to believe in, and live in, Christ, who is the way, the truth, and the life. We have faith in God when we believe His word; we trust and obey God when we keep His commandments; and we love God when we love His law. Believing a lie will not put any one of us in the way of being sanctified. Should all the ministers in the world tell us that we were safe in disobeying a single precept of the holy standard of righteousness, it would not lessen our obligations, nor make our guilt less, if we reject a plain "Thou shalt" or "Thou shalt not." We need not think that because our fathers did a certain way, and died happy, we may follow in their footsteps, and be accepted in rendering the same service, and doing the same works, that they did. We have had more light than they had in their day; and if we would be accepted of God, we must be as faithful in obeying the light and walking in it as they were in receiving and obeying the light that God sent to them. We must accept and improve the light that shines upon our pathway, as faithfully as they accepted and improved the light that fell upon their pathway in their generation. We shall be judged according to the light that shines into the soul-temple in our day; and if we follow the light, we shall be free men and women in Christ Jesus. {RH, March 25, 1902 par. 9}
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The power of an angel could not make an atonement for our sins. The angelic nature united to the human could not be as costly, as elevated, as the law of God. It was the Son of God alone who could present an acceptable sacrifice. God himself became man, and bore all the wrath that sin had provoked. This problem, How could God be just and yet the justifier of sinners? baffled all finite intelligence. A divine person alone could mediate between God and man. Human redemption is a theme which may well tax the faculties of the mind to the utmost. The reason that Christianity is not more elevated is because there is so little effort put forth in the great, grand, holy work of struggling for immortality. Satan is constantly trying to make the salvation of the soul an indifferent matter,--that man has but little to do to secure this priceless treasure. This is why eternal things are not discerned; this is why there is a cheap, spurious article passed off as religion. There are many who say, "I am saved; I am sanctified; I have nothing to do, Jesus has done it all," and they care not to search the Scriptures or to hear the voice of God in his word, or to be doers of the word. This belief is like a building erected on sliding sand. It is a refuge of lies, and the storm and tempest sweep it away, and "great," says Christ, "is the fall of it;" because the false hopes were built so high, and the builder felt so perfectly secure. It was a delusive hope. Our faith, the hope we claim of one day obtaining immortality, calls for the stretch of every muscle, and the stain of every nerve. We cannot be saved in sin and in transgression of God's law. We cannot be saved in indolence and inactivity. We must search the Scriptures if we would have spiritual enlightenment. We have to wrestle against pride and against the human passions, which the light of God's word reveals. Every soul saved will present unwearied petitions for the assistance of Jesus Christ, and will use thankfully and appreciate all the helps which God has provided for them. {YI, August 31, 1887 par. 8}
OK, that's probably enough to get an idea of what she wrote about not saying that we're saved. Too many of these will probably make Night sick. :D

Of course, she also wrote some stuff that gave the impression that we won't become perfectly sinless until the resurrection. That lady that Night quoted was right about the fact that EGW was all over the place in her "authoritative" statements.
 
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NightEternal

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:sick:

That was just.....painful. She definitely was a product of Wesley's nonsense. The EGW apopolgists will, of course, contend that she was only referring to presumption and that SDA's can enjoy full assurance with her endorsement. I find that explanation to be an insult to my intelligence as well as a plain contradiction of what she clearly is maintaining. Not one person who gives who her carte blanche doctrinal authourity can enjoy the full assurance of salvation without incurring, as she calls it, the 'frown' of God.

How many have been driven from our ranks in despair as a result of that supposed 'frown' we will never truly know.

But you know, it doesn't suprise me. She was all over the map as far as the nature of Christ issue as well. You can find quotes to support either the prelapsarian or postlapsarian positions.

Absolutely confusing. You cannot pin her down either way on some subjects.
 
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