Proposition 8 in California must pass!

[FundamentalistJohn]

Well, really the point I was trying to make was the poster you quoted said that anyone with a sex drive or sexual feelings was abnormal to him, so you saying that he thinks pedos are normal doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Well yeah it really does. He by making his statement is arguing that any sexual desire (or lack thereof) is normal for the individual. Thus that would make bestiality normal for the person who has that sexual desire, or desire for sex with mannequins normal for any who may have that desire.

The problem here really is that "normal" is a broad term, and even if clearly defined I don't support the argument that something is "wrong" just because it is abnormal. Just like I don't support the argument that something is "right" just because it is inherent.

As I posted before I don't equate homosexuality with pedophilia but if my post seemed to imply that please forgive my inability to communicate more effectively.

 

[Caylin]

... I may be tired. I'll reexamine my posts after I sleep.

 

[FundamentalistJohn]

Sleep well Caylin

 

[Andreusz]

I may have to leave these forums soon. The moderators delete a lot of my posts without giving any reason. Okay, I can be sarcastic, but only in response to offensive comments by others. And posts that I consider perfectly polite get deleted as well.
I have put in complaints about other people's offensive posts, but it seems nothing is going to be done about them. I have a sense of bias here.

 

[Apollo Celestio]

Then by your definition pedophilia and bestiality are also normal.

By the way why does it matter if homosexuals are normal or not? (This question is not meant to be directly asked of our friend Ishida just in general)

Guess my sarcasm wasn't that obvious, did you read the page before my post? But beyond that, I think pedophilia and bestiality are included on that "sexual desire" list and are therefore also "abnormal" by my kooky logic.

 

[FundamentalistJohn]

Guess my sarcasm wasn't that obvious, did you read the page before my post? But beyond that, I think pedophilia and bestiality are included on that "sexual desire" list and are therefore also "abnormal" by my kooky logic.

I must have missed the sarcasm I apologize if I misunderstood your post and I ask your forgiveness if I misrepresented your position.

 

[FundamentalistJohn]

I may have to leave these forums soon. The moderators delete a lot of my posts without giving any reason. Okay, I can be sarcastic, but only in response to offensive comments by others. And posts that I consider perfectly polite get deleted as well.
I have put in complaints about other people's offensive posts, but it seems nothing is going to be done about them. I have a sense of bias here.

I hope that you don't leave. Perhaps if you ask the moderator who removes your post they can tell you why they removed it.

I have enjoyed much of your perspective even if I don't agree with you.

 

[ChaliceThunder]

I may have to leave these forums soon. The moderators delete a lot of my posts without giving any reason. Okay, I can be sarcastic, but only in response to offensive comments by others. And posts that I consider perfectly polite get deleted as well.
I have put in complaints about other people's offensive posts, but it seems nothing is going to be done about them. I have a sense of bias here.

Stick around, bro.

Many of us appreciate you!

 

[Apollo Celestio]

I must have missed the sarcasm I apologize if I misunderstood your post and I ask your forgiveness if I misrepresented your position.

No worries!

 

[Holy Roller]

How horrible for you…why someday some judge may come along and say you have to treat Jews like human beings or….*gasp* blacks…Oh the horror…oh the humanity! Won’t somebody PLEASE think of the children?!?!?

You can be sarcastic all you want, but in this instance (the instance of gay marriage), the ad hominem does not apply (background: The phrase "for the children", or "think of the children," is an appeal to emotion and can be used to support an irrelevant conclusion (both logical fallacies) when used in an argument. The phrase may also be seen as a valid appeal to a moral value that may be the basis for logical argument or action).

In this instance of gay marriage, we have a tangible and impending threat of child abuse--abuse of such scope and such magnitude that there will no doubt be unending lawsuits filed on behalf of adult children of gay households who suffered irreparable emotional harm. These lawsuits are sure to be filed against the judges who overturned California's ban on gay marriage.

There was this one instance when a child ridiculed me in grade school because our house was in Scottsdale and not Paradise Valley (the child's father's earning capacity was substantially more than my father's, and my dad was by most metrics, quite prosperous!). For that I went thru some mild 'trauma', if you will.

But just imaging magnifying this ridicule to cover not just one boy with a very rich father, but an entire grade school campus because your parents are different (for whatever reason--in this case, being gay)! The emotional torment from having no friends and an entire body of boys and girls more or less constantly harassing you just because your dad and your dad wanted to make a political statement!
Imagine dragging this emotional baggage into high school, where the boys in the 8th grade now pick fights with you and continue their abuse well into the 9th, 10th, 11th and 12th grades. Imagine further the fact that you'll likely journey four long years in high school without ever having a date.
Imagine the long fights such a kid will have with his gay parents, and the incalculable cost of counseling session after counseling session, all in the name of political activism.

And we haven't even scratched the surface about how a child reared in a gay household will affect his view of gender differences in his formative years (those pre-high school years). What thoughts will be on his formative mind when he sees dad and dad hugging/kissing each other when every television program and advertisement his young mind sees shows a dad and a mom hugging and kissing? Just imagine the immense confusion such a young mind would have to consider!

Won’t somebody PLEASE think of the children?!?!?

You just don't know how right you are in asking this question...

 

[Holy Roller]

I may have to leave these forums soon. The moderators delete a lot of my posts without giving any reason. Okay, I can be sarcastic, but only in response to offensive comments by others. And posts that I consider perfectly polite get deleted as well.
I have put in complaints about other people's offensive posts, but it seems nothing is going to be done about them. I have a sense of bias here.

If you're doing retaliatory post-reporting, the mods will likely dismiss them...

 

[Holy Roller]

Don't think for a moment that I discriminate against gay dudes. In fact, I have a thread in a different forum asking the church to stop making such a big deal about gay dudes and dudettes.
However, in the case of gay marriage, all concerned people for the health of our society and well-being of civility in general must always: Won’t somebody PLEASE think of the children?!?!?
Yes. We must.

 

[Holy Roller]

World is not "already known". Normal is entirely based on the opinion of an individual or group of people. You can only define normal from personal opinion regardless of how you reach your conclusion of what it is.

This is true. I would be out-of-place in a gay community. I would, in effect, be abnormal there.

 

[Holy Roller]

Wow, I see what you mean BigBadWlf. Racists can get a lot of mileage out of the following verses:

Acts 8:26-40

26Now an angel of the Lord said to Philip, "Rise and go toward the south to the road that goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza." This is a desert place. 27And he rose and went. And there was an Ethiopian, a eunuch, a court official of Candace, queen of the Ethiopians, who was in charge of all her treasure. He had come to Jerusalem to worship 28and was returning, seated in his chariot, and he was reading the prophet Isaiah. 29And the Spirit said to Philip, "Go over and join this chariot." 30So Philip ran to him and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet and asked, "Do you understand what you are reading?" 31And he said, "How can I, unless someone guides me?" And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him. 32Now the passage of the Scripture that he was reading was this:

"Like a sheep he was led to the slaughter
and like a lamb before its shearer is silent,
so he opens not his mouth.
33In his humiliation justice was denied him.
Who can describe his generation?
For his life is taken away from the earth." 34And the eunuch said to Philip, "About whom, I ask you, does the prophet say this, about himself or about someone else?" 35Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning with this Scripture he told him the good news about Jesus. 36And as they were going along the road they came to some water, and the eunuch said, "See, here is water! What prevents me from being baptized?" 38And he commanded the chariot to stop, and they both went down into the water, Philip and the eunuch, and he baptized him. 39And when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord carried Philip away, and the eunuch saw him no more, and went on his way rejoicing. 40But Philip found himself at Azotus, and as he passed through he preached the gospel to all the towns until he came to Caesarea.

Not to mention Galatians 3:28

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.


Such naked racism!

Now I haven't read your discussion with the person you're debating, but is it another dullard Atheist who's saying scripture is racist again?

 

[David Brider]

Now I haven't read your discussion with the person you're debating, but is it another dullard Atheist who's saying scripture is racist again?

No, he's a Christian who's pointing out that Scripture has been used to justify racism in the past.

David.

 

[David Brider]

Don't think for a moment that I discriminate against gay dudes. In fact, I have a thread in a different forum asking the church to stop making such a big deal about gay dudes and dudettes.
However, in the case of gay marriage, all concerned people for the health of our society and well-being of civility in general must always: Won’t somebody PLEASE think of the children?!?!?
Yes. We must.

How are "the children" effected by same-gender couples being allowed to get married? Indeed, how is anyone - apart from the same-gender couple themselves, and their friends and families who choose to celebrate with them - effected by same-gender couples being allowed to get married?

David.

 

[Andreusz]

In this instance of gay marriage, we have a tangible and impending threat of child abuse--abuse of such scope and such magnitude that there will no doubt be unending lawsuits filed on behalf of adult children of gay households who suffered irreparable emotional harm. These lawsuits are sure to be filed against the judges who overturned California's ban on gay marriage.

...

But just imaging magnifying this ridicule to cover not just one boy with a very rich father, but an entire grade school campus because your parents are different (for whatever reason--in this case, being gay)! The emotional torment from having no friends and an entire body of boys and girls more or less constantly harassing you just because your dad and your dad wanted to make a political statement!
Imagine dragging this emotional baggage into high school, where the boys in the 8th grade now pick fights with you and continue their abuse well into the 9th, 10th, 11th and 12th grades. Imagine further the fact that you'll likely journey four long years in high school without ever having a date.
Imagine the long fights such a kid will have with his gay parents, and the incalculable cost of counseling session after counseling session, all in the name of political activism.

And we haven't even scratched the surface about how a child reared in a gay household will affect his view of gender differences in his formative years (those pre-high school years). What thoughts will be on his formative mind when he sees dad and dad hugging/kissing each other when every television program and advertisement his young mind sees shows a dad and a mom hugging and kissing? Just imagine the immense confusion such a young mind would have to consider!



You just don't know how right you are in asking this question...

Do you have any sources for your assertions, besides your imaginings of 'what might happen'? You have been asked several times to supply sources for the assertion in the OP, but you haven't done this. I must conclude you do not have any. In which case these assertions are simply baseless and malicious.

 

[HaloHope]

How are "the children" effected by same-gender couples being allowed to get married? Indeed, how is anyone - apart from the same-gender couple themselves, and their friends and families who choose to celebrate with them - effected by same-gender couples being allowed to get married?

David.

Definately will be adopting with my girlfreind once we have our civil partnership in the future . Its great to be planning our family for the future, and our us being the same-gender will of course have no bearing on our ability to raise children of either gender.

 

[KCKID]

Don't think for a moment that I discriminate against gay dudes. In fact, I have a thread in a different forum asking the church to stop making such a big deal about gay dudes and dudettes.
However, in the case of gay marriage, all concerned people for the health of our society and well-being of civility in general must always: Won’t somebody PLEASE think of the children?!?!?
Yes. We must.

Thanks to the Dr. Spock generation we managed to 'screw up' a whole generation of kids who in turn are screwing up their own kids even more. And it has absolutely NOTHING to do with the acceptance of homosexuality within our society. These days 'child worship' has become the norm and the kids know that they have the upper hand. Spare the rod and spoil the child will land mom and dad in court. Many are spoiled brats ...here in Australia anyway where many a household has 'the kid/s' at the head of the family. I'm generalizing, I guess, but just talk to a school teacher here!

So, with or without 'gay' marriages a huge percentage of kids today are already 'screwed up' because of the greedy and selfish 'me society' that we heterosexuals have created for them. Few people are really concerned about the long-term interests of the adults of tomorrow (the children of today) because they're too wrapped up in themselves. Most just give lip service and then feel that they've done their bit. Most don't lift a finger because they can't be bothered. Most are too brain-dead worshiping the 50-inch plasma TV that sits in the corner of their room. Most can't even think for themselves and instead rely on their church, the media, politicians, etc. to do it for them. Most are indebted for life to their local lending institution that doesn't give a d---n about the hardships they might be experiencing just as long as they pay up on a regular basis. Most who ARE experiencing hardship got that way because they just HAD to have more, more, more. GREED is eating away at our society among other ungodly and selfish practices ...YET, people have the audacity to target people of the same gender who desire to share a committed lifetime together for being the ruination of 'the kids'.

It's not only paranoia gone mad, it's also sickening!!

 

[Dogbean]

Definately will be adopting with my girlfreind once we have our civil partnership in the future . Its great to be planning our family for the future, and our us being the same-gender will of course have no bearing on our ability to raise children of either gender.

Don't think for a moment that I discriminate against gay dudes. In fact, I have a thread in a different forum asking the church to stop making such a big deal about gay dudes and dudettes.
However, in the case of gay marriage, all concerned people for the health of our society and well-being of civility in general must always: Won’t somebody PLEASE think of the children?!?!?
Yes. We must.

Such children are not going to be raised with a proper view of what a solid Christian family is, since there are no examples in the Bible of gay families raising children. No doubt you'll be loving couples/parents and can meet the children's basic needs, but God's design of a family will not be modelled. As has been stated before on CF, studies have shown that children raised by gay couples have a higher chance of having emotional and mental issues as they grow up.