Prophesies and Evil

newton3005

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Does God have input in any occurrence of evil? There is a strong belief that evil happens without God’s input. So, it may seem that in the context of Romans 8:28, with God involved, evil things which happen may be part of the scheme of things which lead to things ultimately being good according to God’s Purpose.

Since God is our Creator, we accept as being good anything which God has a hand in doing, even things which, if done by anyone else would be seen as evil without a further understanding of the situation. Take the slaughter of newborn babies in Bethlehem, shortly after the birth of the Baby Jesus. Taken in and of itself, such an event is pure evil, since a) babies are presumed to be innocent, so b) to kill that which God created is evil.

According to Matthew 2:17, the slaughter of the babies is in fulfillment of a prophecy of Jeremiah 31:15 which says, “Thus says the LORD: ‘A voice is the heard in Ramah, lamentation and bitter weeping. Rachel is weeping for her children; she refuses to be comforted for her children, because they are no more.’”

From whom do prophesies originate? 2 Peter 1:21 says “For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.” So, prophesies that are recognized as such in the Bible, originate from God. And the inference of 2 Peter 1:21 is that prophesies are the Will of God. Which leads us back to Bethlehem with two questions...1) Is the slaughter of the firstborn males up to age two in Bethlehem an act of evil, and 2) If so, is such evil the Will of God?

After all, did God not command us to not murder? Since God permits us to reason with Him, as we were permitted to do in Isaiah 1:18, how are we to understand why God would will, as expressed in prophecy, the slaughter of those babies in Bethlehem, when we consider also that God stands for the goodness of His Creation, and for the goodness of his creation to go forth and continue.

What happened in Bethlehem is not like what happened in places like Sodom, written in Genesis 18 and 19, where the Lord, contrary to Genesis 32, saw that not even ten righteous people could be found there, so He proceeded to destroy it as He said He would. There is no mention in the Bible of not even ten righteous people being found in Bethlehem when the babies were slaughtered, is there? Can we not presume there were at least ten righteous people there at the time?

Consider the place of Nineveh. God appointed Jonah as a prophet, to prophecy to the Ninevens that they will be destroyed because of their evilness. God very well would have destroyed Nineveh, but when the Ninevens atoned for their sins after being told by Jonah that they would be destroyed, God relented.

Was Bethlehem a place of evil like Sodom and Nineveh, that its babies were to be slaughtered? Where is the goodness in such an act? To be certain, God did not personally slaughter the babies; that was engineered by King Herod. Did God harden Herod’s heart, like He did the heart of the Pharoah Ramses II, enough to get Herod to slaughter those babies? We have that possibility, since the last Verse of the Book of John infers that not everything is mentioned in the Bible. Indeed, at least, what is the Bible but a selected collection of the Word of God, in which, upon the consideration of what is to be included in the Bible and excluded therefrom, there were things that did not survive the cut?

At the end of the day, our faith in God, as suggested by Romans 8:28, demands that, at the very least, God knows best, and the same standards of evil that apply to man does not apply to God. Indeed, in the realm of our faith in God, evil itself does not apply to Him. This seems to be the only earthly rationale that would make sense in terms of our faith in Him.
 

BobRyan

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Does God have input in any occurrence of evil? There is a strong belief that evil happens without God’s input. So, it may seem that in the context of Romans 8:28, with God involved, evil things which happen may be part of the scheme of things which lead to things ultimately being good according to God’s Purpose.

Since God is our Creator, we accept as being good anything which God has a hand in doing, even things which, if done by anyone else would be seen as evil without a further understanding of the situation. Take the slaughter of newborn babies in Bethlehem, shortly after the birth of the Baby Jesus. Taken in and of itself, such an event is pure evil, since a) babies are presumed to be innocent, so b) to kill that which God created is evil.

According to Matthew 2:17, the slaughter of the babies is in fulfillment of a prophecy of Jeremiah 31:15 which says, “Thus says the LORD: ‘A voice is the heard in Ramah, lamentation and bitter weeping. Rachel is weeping for her children; she refuses to be comforted for her children, because they are no more.’”

From whom do prophesies originate? 2 Peter 1:21 says “For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.” So, prophesies that are recognized as such in the Bible, originate from God.
God knows the future and can reveal the future to one of His prophets no matter how bad and horrible that future is - without actually being the cause or instigator of evil.

God knows all the times humans will "take God's name in vain" in future - but He does not make them do it. He could show a prophet the event 20 years from now when a neighbor takes God's name in vain... does not mean God will make the neighbor of that prophet do it. And it does not mean he wants people to take His name in vain.

Rather it means He "allowed" that travesty.

So the question is - why does God allow evil that He in fact does not condone but rather condemns?

Well that is where the topic switches to free will and God's sovereign choice to highly value that in His creation.

God valued free will so high - that He allowed Satan's choice then allowed 1/3 of the angels their bad choices then allowed Adam and Eve their bad choice knowing it would cost Him the sacrifice of the Son of God on the cross to fix this broken world.
 
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newton3005

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So the question is - why does God allow evil that He in fact does not condone but rather condemns?

Well that is where the topic switches to free will and God's sovereign choice to highly value that in His creation.

God valued free will so high - that He allowed Satan's choice then allowed 1/3 of the angels their bad choices then allowed Adam and Eve their bad choice knowing it would cost Him the sacrifice of the Son of God on the cross to fix this broken world.
Seems that God's Creation and the continuance thereof conflicts with God's bestowing free will upon man, to the extent that man is free to destroy what God created, having no regard with what God stands for, and the resulting consequences.
 
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BobRyan

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Seems that God's Creation and the continuance thereof conflicts with God's bestowing free will upon man
Clearly the Bible presents God as the creator of all life - including Lucifer. And clearly Satan (Lucifer) is at war with God but was "perfect in the day he was created" Ezek 28. So then the very fact that someone God created eventually turned against Him is hard to miss. But it is also hard to conclude that all the angels or all mankind also reject God.

God found a solution to the problem in the Gospel. An expensive solution - for sure, since it costs Him the life of the Son of man (incarnate Son of God) and 1/3 of the angels and all the humans that ultimately reject salvation - yet He continued to pay "the high price" for free will at each step knowing that at any one of those steps He could simply "stop free will at this point" and save Himself a lot of grief.
 
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SavedByGrace3

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I think the errors in this thinking are twofold.
1. There is the notion that God is in control of everything, that is, He orchestrates and authenticates every event in creation from the spinning of atoms to the collision of galaxies. I suggest this is not true. There is a "course of nature," and the vast majority of things that happen occur within the boundaries defined in nature. God can intervene, but not always.
2. There is the idea that because a thing is foretold, God is behind the prophesied thing and authenticates it Not so I think.
 
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Blade

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Daniel prayed took Gabriel 21 days to get back to Daniel. God heard Daniel the moment he prayed and God answered. Gabriel had to call on Michael to come help him. Kingdom who's is it? Its not Christs. He said If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world. And He also said Satan is the god of this world.

So many bad things happening in this world God had no hand in. If is in control wow He has everything messed up. Did not Christ come to earth as His own creation? Did He not give us all power authority over the enemy and greater is He that is in us than he thats in the world. As our brothers told the Jews.. why look at us as if this man was healed by our own power. That name faith in that name healed him. A name we have every right to use. Evil flees from the great I AM in you!
 
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