Prophecy "If it's not confirmation, it's junk"?

[LinkH]

I heard a woman say this who was in a church plant where she was positioned as co-pastor with her husband. Normally, the version of this teaching I had heard and read growing up in the AOG and reading Pentecostal and Charismatic stuff was that if a word (especially about your calling) is not confirmation, don't accept it, or don't act on it, or something a little less extreme that 'It's junk.' There is also the teaching that if a prophecy doesn't 'bear witness with your spirit' to reject it. We can discuss the milder variations of this teaching.

 

[LinkH]

I was a young man when I heard "If It's Not Confirmation, It's Junk", but I'd read enough of the Bible to reject this statement to reject it as junk. There are plenty of examples to the contrary in the Bible.

The Bible tells us the reason Jeroboam the son of Nebat lifted up his hand against king Solomon. The passage doesn't say it was because he got a revelation when he was a child that he would be king, and Adonijah the Shilonite confirmed it with a prophecy. No, what we read about is Adonijah prophesying that he would be king. There is no indication that Jehu believed God wanted him to be king before one of the sons of the prophet ran up to him with a prophecy. Saul was looking for donkeys when Samuel prophesied kingship over him. There is no indication that he knew beforehand.

Paul did suspect that bonds and imprisonment awaited him in Jerusalem. But at least one way he knew is that the Spirit kept testifying it from city to city.

I suspect that teaching that prophecy has to be confirmation is an AOG response to extremes with prophecy. Around the time the Latter Rain movement formed taking members from the AOG and Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada, there were a lot of people prophesying. To hear the AOG side of the story, some of it wasn't genuine. I'm not sure if this was from the Latter Rain Movement or not, but I heard a story of someone who sold everything and moved to Africa based on a prophecy, and things didn't materialize on the other end like the prophecy said. I guess "If it's not confirmation, don't believe it" prevents this sort of thing. But it can also give someone an excuse to despise genuine prophecies like what we read about in the Bible.

Think about Paul's companions. There they were in Asia Minor. Then Paul gets a vision of a man from Macedonia. They didn't get the vision. Paul did. But they sailed across an ocean in a time when that was a really big ordeal, based on a word from someone else-- granted they were on the same team, but the principle is still there. I wouldn't be too surprised if Paul made similar decisions based on Silas' or Barnabas' prophecies or revelations at times.

While I believe that we need to judge prophecy, I sure can't find any scripture that says God had to speak something to you individually first before He will speak something to you through someone else. Sometimes God speaks through someone else, and you may be able to perceive it is the Lord speaking through that person, so that confirmation is not an issue. But sometimes we don't perceive the Lord speaking. I will talk about that in another post.

 

[LinkH]

Kenneth Hagin taught that since the Bible says that as many as are led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God, that you aren't supposed to be led by prophets. I don't see his case as particularly strong, since God can lead through prophets. God can use other members of the body of Christ to speak to us. I believe it was Kenneth Hagin who popularized this idea that you aren't supposed to accept a personal prophecy unless it bears witness with your spirit.

Hagin's students say that he was called and gifted as a prophet. I have a question for people on this forum. How many of you know 100% every time you hear a prophecy whether it is from the Lord or not. There may be someone here gifted as a prophet or gifted with discernment of spirits would answer 'yes.' I think most of us would answer no. Maybe sometimes we can tell right away. Some of them we put on the shelf. Some of them we can reject outright.

The Bible does say to let the prophets speak two or three and let the other judge. It does say to prove all things, and to hold fast to that which is good. But we are to judge by the Spirit. If the Spirit doesn't tell you one way or another, doesn't it make more sense to pray about it until you hear, to seek counsel from other people, and to meditate on a word before rejecting it?

 

[annrobert]

I think people who are gifted to prophecy have a gentle authority about them,
a humility and love and compassion.The fruit of the spirit, a servants heart, a peacefulness.I think they would be meek and lowly in heart like Jesus and caring.

I think it usually bears witness in another believers spirit also.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Kenneth Hagin taught that since the Bible says that as many as are led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God, that you aren't supposed to be led by prophets. I don't see his case as particularly strong, since God can lead through prophets. God can use other members of the body of Christ to speak to us. I believe it was Kenneth Hagin who popularized this idea that you aren't supposed to accept a personal prophecy unless it bears witness with your spirit.

Hagin's students say that he was called and gifted as a prophet. I have a question for people on this forum. How many of you know 100% every time you hear a prophecy whether it is from the Lord or not. There may be someone here gifted as a prophet or gifted with discernment of spirits would answer 'yes.' I think most of us would answer no. Maybe sometimes we can tell right away. Some of them we put on the shelf. Some of them we can reject outright.

The Bible does say to let the prophets speak two or three and let the other judge. It does say to prove all things, and to hold fast to that which is good. But we are to judge by the Spirit. If the Spirit doesn't tell you one way or another, doesn't it make more sense to pray about it until you hear, to seek counsel from other people, and to meditate on a word before rejecting it?

Whenever a prophetic word has been given to me, if it did not bear witness within my spirit and/or coincide with what God has already told me I put it on the shelf to pray over and ask God about. Unless what is being told you is opposite scripture, I would not just ignore it. I would also not just jump and run with it.

 

[lismore]

Normally, the version of this teaching I had heard and read growing up in the AOG and reading Pentecostal and Charismatic stuff was that if a word (especially about your calling) is not confirmation, don't accept it, or don't act on it, or something a little less extreme that 'It's junk.'

In my experience with AOG its full of cranks and people who arent born again trying to generate experiences, especially in leadership. For example trying to copy something they saw on God TV> Not surprising they dont operate in real gifts.

 

[vanilla8]

In my experience with AOG its full of cranks and people who arent born again trying to generate experiences, especially in leadership. For example trying to copy something they saw on God TV> Not surprising they dont operate in real gifts.

I second that experience

 

[Andy S. Wright]

I think people who are gifted to prophecy have a gentle authority about them,
a humility and love and compassion.The fruit of the spirit, a servants heart, a peacefulness.I think they would be meek and lowly in heart like Jesus and caring.

I think it usually bears witness in another believers spirit also.

 

[andreessen1992]

I think people who are gifted to prophecy have a gentle authority about them,
a humility and love and compassion.The fruit of the spirit, a servants heart, a peacefulness.I think they would be meek and lowly in heart like Jesus and caring.

although this is often true it is not necesarly, we must not forget that God is after all GOd, the creater we the creature, the master and we the servant.... and it is ultimately God who is speaking to u not the person. With who and how he choses to speak to u is totaly up to him..... the personality of the prophets in the bible was almost always that of a ruged outcast misunderstud person but not because that is who they were but it is who god made them

 

[KingZzub]

We have to also distinguish between the lone prophet of the Old Covenant, and the prophet of the New Covenant who is both part of a body and obligated to build up that body and equip that body and help it be what it is.

I have a series of messages on the gifts of the Holy Spirit, including one on prophecy that will outline a number of important issues regarding judging and receiving words from God.

They can be found here: Holy Spirit Month 2009 - Tree of Life Church London

There are 4 sermons on how to hear God and 4 on the Holy Spirit gifts.

 

[Frogster]

We have to also distinguish between the lone prophet of the Old Covenant, and the prophet of the New Covenant who is both part of a body and obligated to build up that body and equip that body and help it be what it is.

I have a series of messages on the gifts of the Holy Spirit, including one on prophecy that will outline a number of important issues regarding judging and receiving words from God.

They can be found here: Holy Spirit Month 2009 - Tree of Life Church London

There are 4 sermons on how to hear God and 4 on the Holy Spirit gifts.

You may want to realize that if people grow in learning their own ablilties in hearing God,they woukd not be so dependant on "prophecies".


2 Peter 2:1 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.

 

[gratefulgrace]

If the word is totally out of the blue I would also not be quick to jump on and run with it. A lot of contolling spiritual abuse can happen this way. You may not have had the idea and it may take someone led by the HS to introduce it but I truly believe if it is for me God will indeed then confirm it to my spirit as I seek and pray. If He does not then I would move on with no condemnation. gg

 

[lismore]

You can test a prophecy and a prophet. A word from God is flawless, if it is 99.9999% accurate then its not from God.

A direct prophecy from God is not something every believer will receive to share. Prophecies are detailed, often detailing events that have not yet happened, people who have not yet appeared and hidden events with total and astonishing accuracy. Prophets and prophecies can be interacted with..........a message from God will pass every test and hurdle without problems.

If we tested all prophets and all prophecies and just allowed the true to remain, all the confusion would go!

Real prophecies are also precise and detailed enough to be self confirming.

 

[lismore]

There is also the teaching that if a prophecy doesn't 'bear witness with your spirit' to reject it.

You get a prophecy from a speaker to say that one day during the coming revival you will be a billionaire. This really resonates with your spirit man. Because last week you found a couple of scriptures which talk about the wealthy righteous. Then outside you see a green bus, this is confirmation to tell you to go for it! The bus is number 7, which is God's number for completeness and also your birthday!

Do you know what the difference is between that stuff and real prophecy?

 

[LinkH]

You get a prophecy from a speaker to say that one day during the coming revival you will be a billionaire. This really resonates with your spirit man. Because last week you found a couple of scriptures which talk about the wealthy righteous. Then outside you see a green bus, this is confirmation to tell you to go for it! The bus is number 7, which is God's number for completeness and also your birthday!

Do you know what the difference is between that stuff and real prophecy?

This reminds me of a guy I saw on YouTube who was talking about how he used a deck of cards to get words for nations. He was praying about Russia and dealt the king of diamons. Russia sells a lot of diamonds! I sent him a message and asked him if it was okay to cut open livers and do other kinds of divination and prophesy from that.

I went to a house meeting where this guy ministering was reputed to be a prophet. He sounded like he was from way up in the mountains or something, a really old guy. He prophesied over a friend of mine that one day he would be a millionaire. A friend of mine said one day it may cost a million dollars to buy a loaf of bread. On the other hand, maybe I ought to go into business with the guy just in case.

Of course, I am talking about asking someone to pray for you to see if they get a genuine prophetic word, not something weird like you described.

Usually, when I've thought about doing this, it is when I really want confirmation on something. Usually, though, it doesn't seem like God is too eager to give me prophetic confirmation, or at least not until i have already made up my mind or committed to something. Like after i decided to marry my wife and made arrangements with someone to go ring shopping, then I got the confirmation from an actual 'formal' prophecy, and not before when i felt like I could have used it. Or the time I went to Indonesia first, and then got a couple of prophecies from different people at different places that God had brought me there.

 

[LinkH]

Someone posted about the AOG. I was in the AOG in the south in 80s growing up. I went to two AOG churches, three if you count one I went to for a short while. One of them was anti-rock music with a loud famous eloquent country preacher. I didnt' see a lot of people 'falling under the power' and there was a lot of emphasis on salvation and teaching.

The other one I went to felt a little like a relaxednBaptist church with contemporary music but with messages in tongues and prophecies in some services. Neither looked extremely charismatic in style. In both churches, I was on the Bible quiz team so when i think of the AOG I ofte think of memorizing books of the Bible.

There wasn't a lot of personal prophecy that I recall, and they seemed a little leary of prophecies that weren't confirmation.

 

[He put me back together]

Suffice to say, someone must be qualified to prophecy before I will consider him. A man who jumps up out of obscurity, claiming to know the mind of God without first earning my respect as one who does so is not worth the investment of time for consideration. God's people should be open minded, but too busy with the Kingdom to waste time on every fool that comes along, gratifying himself with a "PROPHET" sign hanging about his neck.

You want my attention? Talk to me reasonably, and dispense with the superstitious nonsense of carting about titles that you haven't earned. If you can show me that you know the mind of God, then I might give you the time of day when you say "THUS SAITH THE LAWD!" ...but when you say that, you better be right.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I heard a woman say this who was in a church plant where she was positioned as co-pastor with her husband. Normally, the version of this teaching I had heard and read growing up in the AOG and reading Pentecostal and Charismatic stuff was that if a word (especially about your calling) is not confirmation, don't accept it, or don't act on it, or something a little less extreme that 'It's junk.' There is also the teaching that if a prophecy doesn't 'bear witness with your spirit' to reject it. We can discuss the milder variations of this teaching.

this springs from the passage that says "may every matter be established by two or three witnesses" though the interpretation method is more like Jesus than Paul

i have found this little piece of advice has saved my life more than once . especially if the "two or three witnesses" have no way of speaking to or influencing one another's thinking process

from 20/20 hindsight analysis of the fruit of this "seed" i'd give it an A

only thing i'd add (for it to be A+) is that passage from 1st Thessalonians 5 that says to test everything and keep what is good and throw away what is bad .

hope that helps .

 

[probinson]

"My sheep know my voice..."

There are times that I'm just minding my own business, reading posts in this forum, and I read something that pierces my heart, and there is no doubt that God has just spoken to me directly.

I don't need to know you. I need to know the voice of God, so that when He chooses you, usually unbeknownst to you, to speak to me, I hear that voice and listen to it.

I have purposed in my heart to believe that every part of the body is vital, and that every person has something for me directly from God. Since I've done this, it has changed how I see my brothers and sisters. I may not agree with everything (or in some cases, anything! ) they believe doctrinally, but they are still my brothers and sisters, and I know that God has something for me from them.

I think we put too much emphasis on the messenger. I've learned that God can, and often does, send us exactly what we need in a package we may not particularly like. But if we are His sheep, we'll hear His voice through the noise.

 

[LinkH]

Suffice to say, someone must be qualified to prophecy before I will consider him. A man who jumps up out of obscurity, claiming to know the mind of God without first earning my respect as one who does so is not worth the investment of time for consideration. God's people should be open minded, but too busy with the Kingdom to waste time on every fool that comes along, gratifying himself with a "PROPHET" sign hanging about his neck.

You want my attention? Talk to me reasonably, and dispense with the superstitious nonsense of carting about titles that you haven't earned. If you can show me that you know the mind of God, then I might give you the time of day when you say "THUS SAITH THE LAWD!" ...but when you say that, you better be right.

People demanding to be called by a title turns me off. 'Pastor' included. I see this as a principle in Matthew 23, that we shouldn't seek to be called by honorific titles.

There is nothing wrong with someone knowing his place in the body, and I don't see anything wrong with a true prophet or apostle stating what his ministry is. Paul opened his letters pointing out his own apostleship.

The man of God from Judah who prophesied against Jeroboam isn't even named. He may have come 'out of obscurity.' Who knew who Elijah was before he met king Ahab? What about Ahab, the farmer, or the young Jeremiah?