Proof: You were only forgiven of your past sins!

[Bible Highlighter]

Again you're reading your salvation by works soteriology into the bible. Now you're saying you have to be circumcised to be saved. Do you have to also follow the law to be saved?

Again, in Romans 4:9-12, Paul makes a point about how Abraham believed FIRST and was saved by that belief before he was circumcised (the work of faith).

Again, in Genesis 17:14 it says

"And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant."​

Genesis 17:14 says a soul would be cut off and they would have broken God's covenant if they did not obey the command of circumcision (During Abraham's time). Do you believe Genesis 17:14 is true in what it says? Paul is referring to Abraham FIRST being saved before circumcision in Romans 4:9-12; Hence, Paul is talking about "Initial Salvation" and or our "Ultimate Salvation" (i.e. the Foundation of our Faith).

 

[BNR32FAN]

He indeed does chaistize his own when we are in unrepentant sinning, but he will never lose any of His own!

It depends on how you look at it. Eternal security is only true if your referring to those who are written in the book of life. The book of life will not be edited. God has foreseen all who will be victorious and endure to the end. So in that sense salvation is eternally secure. But if your referring to a person who believes saying that person cannot lose his salvation that is incorrect. I think John 15:1-8 is probably the best example of a believer being able to lose his salvation.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I don’t quite agree about the advantage of BAC over the Jews because the book of life was written before creation. There are many Messianic Jews who have received everything the same gifts as the Gentiles. Also the Jews are blinded right now until the last Gentile finally comes to Christ. I wish that guy would hurry up and repent already I’m ready to go home!!

The New way is better than the Old way. The New way is far superior than the Old way. First, we have knowledge of our Savior Jesus Christ, whereas the OT saint generally did not know about Jesus (Note: Abraham would be one exception I can think of off the top of my head because Jesus said Abraham knew his day and was glad, etc.). But generally the OT saint did not talk about Jesus and have intimate knowledge of Him. In the OT, you had to keep offering sacrifices over and over every year to cover the same old past sins; For the blood of goats and bulls was only a temporary atonement and they never took away sin (Hebrews 10:4). With Jesus, he forever forgives past sin by our seeking forgiveness with Him over those sins (See 1 John 1:9).

Second, the New Covenant Law is far superior than the Old Covenant Law. The New Contract (i.e. the New Covenant, or New Testament) provides a better way to walk with God. It is a higher form of love. In the Old Covenant, God's people were told to kill their enemies. But in the New Covenant, we are told to love our enemies and to do good towards them (Matthew 5:44). In the Old Law, we were told that we can make vows. But in the New way (that Jesus taught us), He says not to make any vows at all (See Matthew 5:34) (Note: The vow of marriage would be an exception of course because the Bible says this is the one vow or agreement that is acceptable). The Old way just said, "Do not commit adultery" But the new way in Christ brings that to be more well defined by us how we cannot even look at a woman in lust because it would be committing adultery already in your heart (See Matthew 5:28-30). A person who thinks that just lusting is fire and damnation (as Jesus taught), will not even want to get close to even doing the physical act. The new way is better. It protects you better spiritually. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life; His teachings are a part of who He is as a person.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It depends on how you look at it. Eternal security is only true if your referring to those who are written in the book of life. The book of life will not be edited. God has foreseen all who will be victorious and endure to the end. So in that sense salvation is eternally secure. But if your referring to a person who believes saying that person cannot lose his salvation that is incorrect. I think John 15:1-8 is probably the best example of a believer being able to lose his salvation.

Not true, my friend. Names can be blotted out of the book of life.

"He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels." (Revelation 3:5).

 

[BNR32FAN]

Not true. Names can be blotted out of the book of life.

"He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels." (Revelation 3:5).

That doesn’t say a person can be blotted out of the book of life. Why would someone be blotted out of the book of life that was written before creation?

 

[BCsenior]

I don’t quite agree about the advantage of BAC over the Jews because the book of life was written before creation. There are many Messianic Jews who have received everything the same gifts as the Gentiles. Also the Jews are blinded right now until the last Gentile finally comes to Christ. I wish that guy would hurry up and repent already I’m ready to go home!!

I'd say the advantage of BACs over the Jews
is evident from the very few believers in OT times
whom God was pleased with.
E.G. Zach and Liz were a very rare blessing to God.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

That doesn’t say a person can be blotted out of the book of life. Why would someone be blotted out of the book of life that was written before creation?

Yes, it says,

"He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels." (Revelation 3:5).

As for names being written in the book of life before the foundation of the world:

Well, there is one group of people whose names were not written in the book of life since the foundation of the world. These are they who will worship the beast in the future (See Revelation 13:8, and Revelation 17:8).

As for everyone else:

Jesus is the Lamb of God slain before the foundation of the world (Revelation 13:8). Jesus is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2). Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world (John 1:29). But does that mean everyone is saved? No.

With the exception of those who will worship the beast in the future, I believe Jesus died for everyone's sins and paid for those sins before the foundation of the world. So when they are born as a baby, they are saved by Christ's sacrifice. Adam's sin corrupts the flesh and or the body. Man was given a sin nature (in the flesh) by Adam. Their body is destined to be condemned by physical death because of their sinful nature. This is why God prevented Adam from eating of the tree of life because if they lived forever, they would be living forever in an imperfect sin infested body that could be open to sin again.

So if a baby dies, they are saved by Christ's sacrifice. If a baby grows up (to an age where God holds them accountable to sin) and they learn to sin, they then fall back into an unsaved state, and their name is blotted out of the book of life and they need to repent and accept Jesus as their Savior to be saved again (i.e. to have their name re-added again to the book of life). Grievous sins is what separates a believer from God. Seeking the Lord's forgiveness and in forsaking sin (Walking uprightly) is whereby one will have their name not blotted out of the book of life. For he that overcomes will not have their name blotted out of the book of life as Revelation 3:5 says.

Okay, so as to quickly recap:

1. Jesus is promised Savior before creation and all are in book of life (Except those who will worship the Beast).

2. A baby is saved by Christ's sacrifice (With the exception of those babies who will grow up to worship the Beast)..

3. When a child grows up to be considered accountable to sin (in God's eyes), their name is then blotted out of the book of life.

4. Their name is re-added to the book of life if they repent of their sins and receive Jesus as their Savior.

5. If they commit grievous sin again, their name is blotted out again.

6. They can come back to Jesus for salvation again (and have their name re-added to the book of life again), if they repent (Seek forgiveness with Jesus), as long as they never denied Jesus as their Savior (after having had the Spirit).​

James 5:19-20 and the Parable of the Prodigal Son (See Luke 15) show us that you can go from a saved state, and then to an unsaved state, and then back again (to being saved).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I'd say the advantage of BACs over the Jews
is evident from the very few believers in OT times
whom God was pleased with.
E.G. Zach and Liz were a very rare blessing to God.

Yes, in addtion to Zacharias, and Elisabeth: The 144,000 come to my mind, as well.

Our readers here should check out Luke 1:5-6 and Revelation 14:3-5 to learn more. Note: My suggestion is to read it in the KJV and compare it with the NLT.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Basically if you believe babies are saved, then you have to come to the conclusion that sin is what separates us from God.

 

[bcbsr]

Again, in Romans 4:9-12, Paul makes a point about how Abraham believed FIRST and was saved by that belief before he was circumcised (the work of faith).

Again, in Genesis 17:14 it says

"And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant."​

Genesis 17:14 says a soul would be cut off and they would have broken God's covenant if they did not obey the command of circumcision (During Abraham's time). Do you believe Genesis 17:14 is true in what it says? Paul is referring to Abraham FIRST being saved before circumcision in Romans 4:9-12; Hence, Paul is talking about "Initial Salvation" and or our "Ultimate Salvation" (i.e. the Foundation of our Faith).

So you're misapplying scripture to say that Christians have to be circumcised to be saved.
Gal 3:
1 You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified.
2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard?
3 Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?
4 Have you suffered so much for nothing— if it really was for nothing?
5 Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard?
6 ¶ Consider Abraham: "He believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."
7 Understand, then, that those who believe are children of Abraham.
8 The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: "All nations will be blessed through you."
9 So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.
10 All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."
11 Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, "The righteous will live by faith."
12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, "The man who does these things will live by them."

 

[BNR32FAN]

I'd say the advantage of BACs over the Jews
is evident from the very few believers in OT times
whom God was pleased with.
E.G. Zach and Liz were a very rare blessing to God.

Ok that’s comparing the Old covenant with the New Covenant not Jews with BAC.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

So you're misapplying scripture to say that Christians have to be circumcised to be saved.
Gal 3:
1 You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified.
2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard?
3 Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?
4 Have you suffered so much for nothing— if it really was for nothing?
5 Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard?
6 ¶ Consider Abraham: "He believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."
7 Understand, then, that those who believe are children of Abraham.
8 The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: "All nations will be blessed through you."
9 So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.
10 All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."
11 Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, "The righteous will live by faith."
12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, "The man who does these things will live by them."

No. I am not saying circumcision is for salvation today. I said the exact opposite if you were to read all of my posts. Circumcision was a part of the Old Covenant and was a necessary step of the salvation process after being saved by God's grace in the Old Covenant. In Genesis 17:14, under the Old Covenant, you had to be circumcised after believing in God as your Savior. We are not under the Old Covenant. That was part of Paul's point. He was also trying to show that we are first saved by having a belief in God as our Savior. Then "works of faith" follow (which shows that a person's faith is true).

For example: If Rick said that his old rocking chair on his porch was able to hold his weight, and he said he believed that with all his heart, would he truly be showing forth that his statement of faith was true if he never sat in the chair? Especially if he was asked to sit in it and yet he refused to do so? In other words, if Rick believed that his porch chair would hold his weight (and he told others this), he would no doubt take the action necessary by sitting in that chair to prove that such a statement was true. Otherwise it would just be an empty profession of faith. In other words, if a person says they love God, and they have no visible good fruit to show that such a thing is true, then it would be just an empty profession of faith that they love God. Meaning, they really do not love God. It would just be a paying of lip service. I mean, a man can say he loves his wife, but if he does nothing to please her in any way, then he really does not love her. Action shows forth whether one's faith is the genuine and the real article vs. it being fake.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Yes, it says,

"He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels." (Revelation 3:5).

As for names being written in the book of life before the foundation of the world:

Well, there is one group of people whose names were not written in the book of life since the foundation of the world. These are they who will worship the beast in the future (See Revelation 13:8, and Revelation 17:8).

As for everyone else:

Jesus is the Lamb of God slain before the foundation of the world (Revelation 13:8). Jesus is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2). Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world (John 1:29). But does that mean everyone is saved? No.

With the exception of those who will worship the beast in the future, I believe Jesus died for everyone's sins and paid for those sins before the foundation of the world. So when they are born as a baby, they are saved by Christ's sacrifice. Adam's sin corrupts the flesh and or the body. Man was given a sin nature (in the flesh) by Adam. Their body is destined to be condemned by physical death because of their sinful nature. This is why God prevented Adam from eating of the tree of life because if they lived forever, they would be living forever in an imperfect sin infested body that could be open to sin again.

So if a baby dies, they are saved by Christ's sacrifice. If a baby grows up (to an age where God holds them accountable to sin) and they learn to sin, they then fall back into an unsaved state, and their name is blotted out of the book of life and they need to repent and accept Jesus as their Savior to be saved again (i.e. to have their name re-added again to the book of life). Grievous sins is what separates a believer from God. Seeking the Lord's forgiveness and in forsaking sin (Walking uprightly) is whereby one will have their name not blotted out of the book of life. For he that overcomes will not have their name blotted out of the book of life as Revelation 3:5 says.

Okay, so as to quickly recap:

1. Jesus is promised Savior before creation and all are in book of life (Except those who will worship the Beast).

2. A baby is saved by Christ's sacrifice (With the exception of those babies who will grow up to worship the Beast)..

3. When a child grows up to be considered accountable to sin (in God's eyes), their name is then blotted out of the book of life.

4. Their name is re-added to the book of life if they repent of their sins and receive Jesus as their Savior.

5. If they commit grievous sin again, their name is blotted out again.

6. They can come back to Jesus for salvation again (and have their name re-added to the book of life again), if they repent (Seek forgiveness with Jesus), as long as they never denied Jesus as their Savior (after having had the Spirit).​

James 5:19-20 and the Parable of the Prodigal Son (See Luke 15) show us that you can go from a saved state, and then to an unsaved state, and then back again (to being saved).

The names were written in the book of life before creation because God has foreseen who will be victorious and endure to the end. God has seen the outcome of every person so there is no reason to blot people’s names out then write them back in if they repent. Why would God keep going back & forth saying ok he’s in now he’s out now he’s in again and now out again? That would be pointless since He already knows who will be victorious and endure to the end.

 

[YeshuaFan]

It depends on how you look at it. Eternal security is only true if your referring to those who are written in the book of life. The book of life will not be edited. God has foreseen all who will be victorious and endure to the end. So in that sense salvation is eternally secure. But if your referring to a person who believes saying that person cannot lose his salvation that is incorrect. I think John 15:1-8 is probably the best example of a believer being able to lose his salvation.

Jesus intercedes for His own, and the Holy Spirit seals his own, so God will loose none!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The names were written in the book of life before creation because God has foreseen who will be victorious and endure to the end. God has seen the outcome of every person so there is no reason to blot people’s names out then write them back in if they repent. Why would God keep going back & forth saying ok he’s in now he’s out now he’s in again and now out again? That would be pointless since He already knows who will be victorious and endure to the end.

No. Not true, my friend.

[While interceding for Israel, Moses said,]

"Alas, this people has committed a great sin, and they have made an elohim of gold for themselves. But now, if you will, forgive their sin — and if not, please blot me out from your book which you have written!" (Exodus 32:32).​

[In response,] the LORD said to Moses,

"Whoever has sinned against me, I will blot him of my book." (Exodus 32:33).​

 

[bcbsr]

He was also trying to show that we are first saved by having a belief in God as our Savior. Then "works of faith" follow (which shows that a person's faith is true).

Weill, which is it? Salvation is conditioned upon performance, or performance simply shows genuine faith.

If it's the later, then Initial salvation = Final Salvation is their faith is genuine. That's what I'm saying. The gospel is if a person puts genuine faith in Christ they will be saved. You've been saying that salvation is contingent upon one's ongoing performance, which is quite different. It's called "justification by Law".

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Jesus intercedes for His own, and the Holy Spirit seals his own, so God will loose none!

"And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him." (Acts of the Apostles 5:32).

Christ is the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him.

"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" (Hebrews 5:9).

Also see 1 John 1:7.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Weill, which is it? Salvation is conditioned upon performance, or performance simply shows genuine faith.

If it's the later, then Initial salvation = Final Salvation is their faith is genuine. That's what I'm saying. The gospel is if a person puts genuine faith in Christ they will be saved. You've been saying that salvation is contingent upon one's ongoing performance, which is quite different. It's called "justification by Law".

Yes, it is both faith and performance. Your performance shows your true faith. Just as if a man who says he is sorry to his wife does not cheat on his wife as a genuine confession that he is truly sorry. A person who is not truly sorry over their sins with God is going to keep trying to justify their sin in some way. Just as the man who says to his wife that he is sorry that he cheats on her and does not stop.

The porch chair example should have made this clear to you. But you are not wanting to see it.

 

[YeshuaFan]

Yes, it is both. Your performance shows your true faith. Just as if a man who says he is sorry to his wife does not cheat on his wife as a genuine confession that he is truly sorry. A person who is not truly sorry over their sins with God is going to keep trying to justify their sin in some way. Just as the man who says to his wife that he is sorry that he cheats on her and does not stop.

The porch chair example should have made this clear to you. But you are not wanting to see it.

The death of Jesus purchased us back to the Father, and the Holy Spirit and Jesus Themselves are making sure that none are ever lost again!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The death of Jesus purchased us back to the Father, and the Holy Spirit and Jesus Themselves are making sure that none are ever lost again!

While I agree that God can help us to obey, we do also have free will, too. God is not in the business of forcing salvation upon anyone. Here are some Biblical facts to consider:

We need to endure in our faith to continue to be saved:

"But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;" Hebrews 3:13-14.

"Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him." James 1:12.

"But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. Matthew 24:13.

"...be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." Revelation 2:10.

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." Revelation 2:7.

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death." Revelation 2:11.

"He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels." Revelation 3:5.

"Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." Jude 1:21.

​

Obeying God or Being Righteous is a part of eternal life:

"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city." Revelation 22:14.

"he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" Hebrews 5:9.

"And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live." Luke 10:25-28.

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." Matthew 7:21.

"Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God." Matthew 5:8.

​

Every man will be given according to what their work shall be:

"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be." Revelation 22:12.

​

Sin or Unfaithfulness Can Separate:

"And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." Luke 9:62.

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins." Hebrews 10:26.

"For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?" 1 Peter 4:17-18.

"For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire. 2 Peter 2:21-22.

"And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." Revelation 22:19.

"Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die." Ezekiel 18:4.​

"Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man." (Ecclesiastes 12:13).

In other words, we do have to cooperate with God and we cannot justify sin in any way (Especially grievous sin because the Bible clearly teaches that committing grievous sin without repentance leads to spiritual death).

Source used:
Once Saved Always Saved - Fact or Fiction?