Proof that the Bible is NOT corrupted and is reliable.

[Fire]

The question I have for the Muslims is "When and where was the Bible corrupted, since the Qu'ran says that the Torah, the Psalms, and the Gospel are from Allah and Allah's words cannot be changed?"
http://www.carm.org/islam/Bibletokoran.htm

The Bible consists of The Tanak (Torah, Writings, Prophets), the gospels, and the writings Paul and others.

Clearly there is scope with the writings of Paul and others.

 

[WhoeverLovesGod01]

My Bible isn't corrupted. If it's corrupted, then it wouldn't have revealed salvation.

 

[Fire]

Pauls doctrine of salvation is as odds with what Jesus taught because Jesus confirmed the covenant of the Torah while Paul the Pharisee focused on a more secular doctrine.

 

[SnowBear]

Don't you know that the Trojan war DID TAKE PLACE !

Troy was found because of the Illiad!

That is what I said.

The Odyssey and the Iliad were USED to locate the city of Troy.

Try reading posts before attacking them

 

[NOTW]

Pauls doctrine of salvation is as odds with what Jesus taught because Jesus confirmed the covenant of the Torah while Paul the Pharisee focused on a more secular doctrine.

Pauls doctrines in general did not even contradict with Jesus'. In fact, it confirmed and explained Jesus' teachings. Paul said, "Christ is the fulfillment of Moses' Teachings so that everyone who has faith may receive God's approval." Romans 10:4
But, Muslims usually point at "For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity." Ephesians 2:14-16

That is true. Jesus brought an end to Moses' Teachings. But Muslims mix Ephesians 2:15 with "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill." Matthew 5:17

Paul said that Jesus fulfilled/used/put in action Moses' Teachings. And Jesus, did, fulfill Moses' Teachings. But Jesus did not destroy the Laws.
If you look at Moses' Teachings, they were for the Jews only. And Jesus was crucified not only for the Jews but for everyone. Jews, Gentiles, everyone.
Therefore, there was no need for the Laws of Moses anymore, after Jesus' sacrifice on the cross. And that's what Paul was saying in Ephesians 2:15.

 

[morningstar2651]

That is what I said.

The Odyssey and the Iliad were USED to locate the city of Troy.

Try reading posts before attacking them

What I think SnowBear is saying is...

If the Bible's historical accuracy proves that the whole is truth, then the accuracy of the Odyssey and Iliad proves that the whole is truth -- including the existance of the Greek pantheon.

 

[Fire]

Pauls doctrines in general did not even contradict with Jesus

Paul's doctrines are devoid of teachings regarding love of the Father and the observance of his teaching.

Jesus brought an end to Moses' Teachings.

Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, [that] observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay [them] on men's shoulders; but they [themselves] will not move them with one of their fingers.
Matthew 23:1-4

 

[rahma]

To think that one post on a message board will put asside centuries of debate on this subject once and for all is ludacris. Scholars have written volumes upon volumes upon volumes on this subject. I tend to place more trust in scholars than in a thread on a message board.

 

[Fire]

To think that one post on a message board will put asside centuries of debate on this subject once and for all is ludacris. Scholars have written volumes upon volumes upon volumes on this subject. I tend to place more trust in scholars than in a thread on a message board.

Message boards enable conflicting views to be examined according to the truth of the claims.

Scholars are valuable people, but at the and of the day a man must decide for himself which scholar he trusts.

 

[rahma]

Message boards enable conflicting views to be examined according to the truth of the claims.

Scholars are valuable people, but at the and of the day a man must decide for himself which scholar he trusts.

I am responding to the OP that said:

I will prove it once and for all and get it done & over with.

Can this centuries long debate be over and done with in a single thread?

 

[Fire]

Can this centuries long debate be over and done with in a single thread?

I would certainly hope so. The evidence of corruption stems from the writings of Paul. The evidence of unreliabiliy stems from the contradictory verses relating to the crucifixion, or should I say the crucifiction? lol

For this debate to end the participants must put aside their dogma and search for the truth of the matter without religious bias.

 

[NOTW]

For this debate to end the participants must put aside their dogma and search for the truth of the matter without religious bias.

Without religious Bias?
Say that to a muslim, and they will instantly reject the idea.

 

[Fire]

Without religious Bias?
Say that to a muslim, and they will instantly reject the idea.

So why would a Muslim behave any differently to a Christian in this regard?

 

[NOTW]

So why would a Muslim behave any differently to a Christian in this regard?

coz I have searched for the truth with any religious Bias, and i have chosen Christianity, when Muslims won't even think about it.

 

[Fire]

I have searched for the truth with any religious Bias, and i have chosen Christianity, when Muslims won't even think about it.

Did you type the truth by mistake? lol

 

[NOTW]

Did you type the truth by mistake? lol

No, I did not. Can you prove tha whatever you're following (which I bet is Islam) is the "truth"

 

[Fire]

I have searched for the truth with any religious Bias, and i have chosen Christianity

So which religious bias did you search for the truth with? lol
I am not a Muslim, so you are off the mark there too. lol

 

[morningstar2651]

I have searched for the truth with any religious Bias, and i have chosen Christianity

Say that to a muslim, and they will instantly reject the idea.

Unbiased...really? You contradict yourself.

 

[morningstar2651]

No, I did not. Can you prove tha whatever you're following (which I bet is Islam) is the "truth"

I thought that this thread was about the Bible -- not the Quran.

 

[rahma]

coz I have searched for the truth with any religious Bias, and i have chosen Christianity, when Muslims won't even think about it.

Excuse me? Have you met and interviewed all 1.2 billion muslims? Dear, I wasn't raised a muslim. It was my search for the truth that lead me to Islam, so don't tell me muslims don't search for the truth.

And my husband, a muslim born in Egypt, went on a similar search for truth. So watch what you're doing with that wide brush of stereotypes.