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Proof that God exists?

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trientje

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Believe this, you do not want to go to an atheist site. It is like walking in to the devil's den. They are Vehement God haters and Christian haters. Nothing is spared there and you leave suffering from nausea.
 
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dlamberth

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Believe this, you do not want to go to an atheist site. It is like walking in to the devil's den. They are Vehement God haters and Christian haters. Nothing is spared there and you leave suffering from nausea.
A lot of people have been hurt by Christians. There is a lot of pent up anger. So that sort of thing is bound to bubble over when the cork has been popped open.

.
 
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Eudaimonist

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A lot of people have been hurt by Christians. There is a lot of pent up anger. So that sort of thing is bound to bubble over when the cork has been popped open.

This^


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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trientje

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A lot of people have been hurt by Christians. There is a lot of pent up anger. So that sort of thing is bound to bubble over when the cork has been popped open.

.

I'm sure that has happened to some of them but there is no excuse to act like a rabid animal. If a person is hurt by someone, they have a choice. They can come out of the experience smelling like smoke or they can use the experience to grow and mature. I was on the thinking atheist. There they had pictures of Jesus giving the finger and all sorts of vile things. Check it out.
 
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Eudaimonist

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To them, it's humor and a chance for laughter to vent hurt emotions. To you, it's "vile". It's a matter of perspective.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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trientje

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To them, it's humor and a chance for laughter to vent hurt emotions. To you, it's "vile". It's a matter of perspective.




eudaimonia,

Mark

Humor? Oh stop!!!! "My feelings were hurt so I'm going to hate all Christians, degrade the Christians God, use fowl language, and act like an animal. Its more like an insolent teenager would act. Your not serious!
 
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Tiberius

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Believe this, you do not want to go to an atheist site. It is like walking in to the devil's den. They are Vehement God haters and Christian haters. Nothing is spared there and you leave suffering from nausea.

I've never seen an atheist who hates Christians or God.

I've seen atheists who hate the idea of blind faith and adherence to superstition though.

Perhaps you are confusing the two?
 
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Tiberius

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Humor? Oh stop!!!! "My feelings were hurt so I'm going to hate all Christians, degrade the Christians God, use fowl language, and act like an animal. Its more like an insolent teenager would act. Your not serious!

No, as in, "This is a picture of Jesus that makes a comment about something that he said that does make sense in light of something else that he said." Or things like that.

And seriously, if we are to assume that an atheist laughing at a picture of Jesus giving someone the finger is that bad, then surely we atheists have the right to be offended at the joke where the punchline is God telling the atheist to get his own dirt.
 
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Archaeopteryx

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My post was addressed to Gadarene, so I would appreciate it if you allowed him to respond.

Secondly, the use of (y) is unsubstantiated and in fact is immaterial to the discussion.

Immaterial to the discussion you say? Juxtapose your use of the word in that sentence with how you've been using the same word in your arguments for a deity.
 
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Tiberius

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You are not familiar with the account of Didymus who is called Thomas then.

The guy who, when told that Jesus had risen from death, didn't believe it, but when he saw that it had happened he proclaimed Jesus as Lord? What exactly was he taking on nothing but faith?

Or the apostle Paul

What did he believe that he had no evidence for? (Remember - blind faith is belief in something for which there is no scientific evidence.)

Or the ten other apostles of Christ for that fact.

And what did they take on nothing but faith?

All of them believed in God, and I assure you, it was quite more than blind faith.

Ah. You misread what I said. I said that I can't think of a single example in the Bible where someone believes in God without having something more than blind faith.

In other words, I can't think of a single example of someone in the Bible who believes based on blind faith and nothing more.
 
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Tiberius

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My post was addressed to Gadarene, so I would appreciate it if you allowed him to respond.

I'm not stopping him. I'm pointing out the flaw in your logic. The flaw will be the same whether I point it out or Gad does. The only difference is that the wording will be slightly changed depending on which one of us tells you.


You are assuming that X will do the job Y for which it was intended.
 
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Eudaimonist

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Humor? Oh stop!!!! "My feelings were hurt so I'm going to hate all Christians, degrade the Christians God, use fowl language, and act like an animal. Its more like an insolent teenager would act. Your not serious!

I don't think you are doing a good job putting yourself in their shoes. Yes, it is humor to them. Perhaps it is unkind humor, but it is still humor. I'll agree that this style of humor comes across as teenagerish, and I'll bet that much of it is created by teenagers.

However, I think they do that because of hurt feelings, or in many cases frustration that builds up from day-to-day dealings with Christians who come across as dense or irrational.

I'm sorry, but I've seen similar unkind humor from Christians regarding atheists. Have you ever encountered this Internet spam?

The Atheist and the Bear!

An atheist was taking a walk through the woods, admiring all that the evolution had created. "What majestic trees! What powerful rivers! What beautiful animals!", he said to himself.

As he was walking alongside the river he heard a rustling in the bushes behind him. He turned to look. He saw a 7-foot grizzly charge towards him. He ran as fast as he could up the path. He looked over his shoulder and saw that the bear was closing.

He ran even faster, so scared that tears were coming to his eyes. He looked over his shoulder again, and the bear was even closer. His heart was pumping frantically and he tried to run even faster. He tripped and fell on the ground. He rolled over to pick himself up but saw the bear right on top of him, reaching for him with his left paw and raising his right paw to strike him.

At that instant the Atheist cried out "Oh my God!...."
Time stopped.
The bear froze.
The forest was silent.
Even the river stopped moving.

As a bright light shone upon the man, a voice came out of the sky, "You deny my existence for all of these years; teach others I don't exist; and even credit creation to a cosmic accident. Do you expect me to help you out of this predicament? Am I to count you as a believer?"

The atheist looked directly into the light "It would be hypocritical of me to suddenly ask You to treat me as Christian now, but perhaps could you make the bear a Christian?"

"Very well," said the voice.
The light went out.
The river ran again.
And the sounds of the forest resumed.
And then the bear dropped his right paw ..... brought both paws together...bowed his head and spoke:
"Lord, for this food which I am about to receive, I am truly thankful...AMEN!"
How do you evaluate that?


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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Gadarene

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Your response is no to my question.

Yes, it is. Not my fault you didn't get it, though I'm hardly surprised.


Possibly, but the onus to justify that X has property Y is on the proponent, i.e. P1, so there is an additional factor here - how good a job P1 has done in justifying his claim that X has property Y.

The irony is that this is obviously tying in with both your obsession with the KCA and your insistence that we have atheistic presuppositions (and you haven't been able to justify a single one of the ones you've claimed we do have). Not only do you not have any case at present to justify accusing us that we reject X having property Y, your lynchpin argument also doesn't exclusively narrow down which deity the first cause is supposed to be (not that it can even manage to soundly narrow the possibilities down to a deity being the only possible first cause).

To summarise my initial objection - no, you do not have the right to say we aren't interested in truth, because you have not sufficiently justified your claim that your beliefs are truth.

And I should add, this really is a lot of hoop jumping you're going through to justify a crappy attitude. Wouldn't apologising be a lot more expedient?
 
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Gadarene

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No, it's actually quite apt, and once again you have failed to demonstrate that for all your pathetic Craigian bluster, it is you who actually have no clue about the logic here.

The validity of the claim that X has property Y is necessarily mediated through the individual claiming it, i.e. P1, i.e, you. Whether or not X actually HAS property Y is a separate matter, it is no good if P1 fails in making a proper case for it, and P2 is completely justified in rejecting the claim that X has property Y if P1 fails to justify it, and character assassinations about their desire to seek truth are still unfounded.

Your problem is you want to divorce your role in presenting a crap case for your beliefs from the actual course of events. Sorry, kiddo, that isn't happening.
 
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KCfromNC

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So in other words, it's totally different than hearing a loved one on the phone. OK, fair enough. I'll just ignore the first paragraph as an off-topic diversion.

So back to my original question - how do you know the voices in your head are from god(s)?
 
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KCfromNC

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Let me ask you, how are you so sure that your wife loves you, or how are you so sure that you love your children?

I find it interesting that people who claim to be in a loving relationship with a supernatural being also fail to understand how others know they are in a loving relationship with a real person. Wonder what the connection there is.
 
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KCfromNC

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Such indignation, such avaricious appeal to good and bad form!

If only we had a reason to trust your opinion on the matter.

If someone offers me something, and I refuse it, would you say that I was interested in that which I refused?

Maybe. I'm offering you a way out of sin - all you have to do is stop believing in God. If you refuse, does that mean you're interested in living sinful life? No, you just don't believe what I'm selling you. Interested in and convinced of are two different questions so don't try to confuse the two.
 
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