Promise of a Gentile Messiah

[Lulav]

Have you ever come across any material on Gentile Messiah's?

What I mean is that Jews have had a promised Messiah for 2+ millennium, Muslims only about 1400 years.

I think they call him the Mahati or something like that.

But were the Gentiles as a group (meaning all the other nations), distinct from Israel ever promised a Messiah to save them?

 

[ananda]

Didn't the ancient Greeks and Romans also worshipped their various gods as "christs"?

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Have you ever come across any material on Gentile Messiah's?

What I mean is that Jews have had a promised Messiah for 2+ millennium, Muslims only about 1400 years.

I think they call him the Mahati or something like that.

But were the Gentiles as a group (meaning all the other nations), distinct from Israel ever promised a Messiah to save them?

As it concerns secular culture and the world of the Gentiles, if examining whether or not the concept of a Messiah was present in their world, it is the case that many in differing religions have pointed out how belief in the Messiah was not something unique to believers - even though it is the case that this often happens is that many seek to point it out due to trying to make it seem as if following the Lord is not something one can be exclusive on.

Specifically, there are some who may wonder if Christ is unique due to how there are older stories that mimic the story of Jesus in several other cultures. There was actually a documentary that came out years ago which was very popular in expressing the sentiment - if aware of the film entitled Zeitgeist: The Greatest Story Ever Told .....

Zeitgeist: The Movie (HD) Part I - The Greatest Story Ever Told - YouTube​

And although there were other parts of the film pertaining to issues with government/corruption and false flags which were very spot on, it was sadly the case that they fell into the ancient error that has been going on for some time.

I do believe that having other cultures note similarities to who Christ is doesn’t mean that Christ is false. If nothing else, it points to the concept of how a Messiah came to save mankind is not something that is radically new to mankind – the issue of partial truth pointing to real concepts. Pagans desire for us to accept the fact that Tammuz, Osiris, Gilgamesh, Saturn, Zeus, Odon, Shiva, etc were all born of a virgin and when you celebrate Christ's birth, you are really celebrating all of their births and not his. But Christ is the only true virgin birth and the other God's are fable births that came along to make Jesus’ immaculate conception common and not miraculous. Two stories may be almost identical – but that doesn’t make them anymore the same as saying that hawks and eagles are the same because they have aspects similar to birds of prey. The same story of Jesus resonating may be due to knowing partial truth – that a Messiah would come – but it can also be due to the fact that stories are made tthat resonates throughout pagan history because of the enemies (Devil's) plan to parallel the true story with a false one…to make you not consider where one of them stands out as unique above all…and what you should listen to.

It all goes back to what the worldview – regardless of similarities with what you believe – ultimately points you to….and that’s where following the Messiah Yeshua stands out when it comes to pointing to Christ being central/our inability to redeem ourselves fully. Some good places that give exceptional detail/coverage on the subject of addressing the accusations with Christianity and the "Mithras" claim:

• Pagan origins of Christianity? - Answering Islam

• Refuting Mithras Myth Parallelism To Christianity |

• THE CHARGE OF PAGAN INFLUENCE - Answering Islam

• Did Christianity Steal From Mithraism? - Come Reason Ministries

• Was Jesus a Copy of Horus, Mithras, Krishna, Dionysus and Other Pagan Gods? - Beginning and End ...

That said, if asking whether or not it's the case that the Divine Messiah promised to the Jewish people was ever promised to the Gentile followers of him, I recall where the same question came up before in previous conversation (around Christmas time years ago) - although on the issue, as Abraham was both Gentile (in his original state during being called in Genesis 12-14) and Jew (when circumcision came into view in Genesis 15-17), the promise given to him which said that from his seed all nations would be blessed is a promise of the Messiah made for all mankind. There has never been a Messiah that was EXCLUSIVELY for the Jews only - nor really hidden.

Isaiah 56:3
Neither let the son of the foreigner, that has joined himself to YHVH, speak, saying, YHVH has utterly separated me from His people...
​

Isaiah 56:6-8
Also the sons of the foreigner, that join themselves to YHVH, to serve him, and to love the name of YHVH, to be his servants, every one who keeps the sabbath from polluting it, and takes hold of My covenant, even those I will bring to My holy mountain, and make them joyful in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon My altar, for My house shall be called an house of prayer for all people. Adonai YHVH who gathers the outcasts of Israel says, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered to him.
​

In regards to the question, as said before ( #163 ):

Were Gentiles in any nation ever promised a Messiah?

the concept of messiah is pretty vague in the tanach.
I don't think there will be a "Jews" only messiah

Messiah was always meant to redeem both Jews and Gentiles who trusted in Him Isaiah 42 is one of the most powerful scriptures on that reality when seeing the reach of the Messiah being even unto the islands/other Gentile territories....and of course, other scriptures where the Lord noted Gentiles who trusted in Him would recieve what the Messiah came to bring them. For those who trust in Christ, it seems He was prophesied to be Messiah for both Jews and Gentiles since only he could redeem all from the curse of sin...

Isaiah 49:5-7 / Isaiah 49
And now the Lord says—
he who formed me in the womb(A) to be his servant
to bring Jacob back to him
and gather Israel(B) to himself,
for I am[a] honored(C) in the eyes of the Lord
and my God has been my strength(D)—
6 he says:
“It is too small a thing for you to be my servant(E)
to restore the tribes of Jacob
and bring back those of Israel I have kept.(F)

I will also make you a light(G) for the Gentiles,(H)
that my salvation may reach to the ends of the earth.”(I)

7 This is what the Lord says—
the Redeemer and Holy One of Israel(J)—
to him who was despised(K) and abhorred by the nation,
to the servant of rulers:
“Kings(L) will see you and stand up,
princes will see and bow down,(M)
because of the Lord, who is faithful,(N)
the Holy One of Israel, who has chosen(O) you.”

Isaiah 51:5
My righteousness draws near speedily, my salvation is on the way, and my arm will bring justice to the nations. The islands will look to me and wait in hope for my arm.
Isaiah 51:4-6

Luke 2:31-33
27 Moved by the Spirit, he went into the temple courts. When the parents brought in the child Jesus to do for him what the custom of the Law required,(W) 28 Simeon took him in his arms and praised God, saying:
29 “Sovereign Lord, as you have promised,(X)
you may now dismiss[d] your servant in peace.(Y)
30 For my eyes have seen your salvation,(Z)
31which you have prepared in the sight of all nations:
32 a light for revelation to the Gentiles,
and the glory of your people Israel.”(AA)

​

Jewish is a label for the children of Israel and refers to all 12 tribes.

Do Gentiles become Jews when they accept Jesus? Messianic Judaism does not believe that. Scripture is very very specific that Gentiles remain Gentiles. Only if the Gentiles remain Gentiles is the prophesies fulfilled.

Is the church now Israel? Messianic Judaism does not believe that either. God made promises to the children of Israel, which are yet to be fulfilled, and God would not make promises to people and then fail to keep His word.

In my understanding, Yeshua reaching out to Samaritans is not counter to the reality of how he already told His people on a specific occassion to only focus on the Lost Sheep of Israel. There's also the reality that Christ Himself is able to do as He wishes since He is the Lord

.. by citing good actions of some Samaritans and Gentiles and by summoning the Jews to repentance and love, Jesus incurred the wrath of many of His countrymen. Along this same pattern He once reminded His countrymen in His own town of Nazareth of two Old Testament incidents: During a famine in Israel the prophet Elijah aided not the widows of Israel but a widow at Zarephath (a Gentile..1 Kings 17:1); a little later the prophet Elisha helped not the lepers of Israel but the leper Naaman the Syrian (a Gentile)...seen in 2 Kings 5:1 . Hearing these incidents, Jesus' own countrymen became furious with Him when read the Scroll/noted that salvation came to the Gentiles (Luke 4:25-28)...as in the eyes of many Jews, Gentiles did not deserve salvation as they did (similar to how Jonah felt with Assyria when the Lord called Him to preach so that they'd repent). God directed both of these prophets, great prophets of God to the Children of Israel, to help individual Gentiles. Do not these prophets supply an Old Testament precedent for Jesus' action among a few individual Samaritans and Gentiles?

One of these actions concerned the Canaanite woman, to whom, as already noted, Jesus had said: "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." ( Matthew 15:21-28 ). In addition we see the passage regarding Jesus and the Roman centurion ( Matthew 8:5-10 ).

While reiterating that Jesus said that He was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, we note also the following:

• 1. Jesus healed both Gentiles in need of healing
• 2. Both the centurion and the woman realized their unworthiness before Jesus. What is explicit in the account of the Canaanite woman is implicit in the account about the centurion: Jesus' ministry is to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Both were fully aware that they did not belong to the house of Israel and that Jesus had the right to reject their requests
• 3. Both demonstrate a faith which was unparalleled among the Children of Israel. It is this kind of faith that Jesus looked for and which He honored. Such a faith always receives what it wants, for it wants God's will (John 15:7, 1 John 5:19). Jesus told neither of them to follow Him.

Should we be surprised that Jesus followed the precedents of Elijah and Elisha in helping Gentiles, especially Gentiles of such faith? By abiding by His practice that He was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, should He have ignored their pleas? It does seem possible that these exceptions proved His rule of limiting His ministry to the house of Israel.



Further we should note Jesus' additional words to His disciples after He has instructed them to "go nowhere among the Gentiles, and ... the Samaritans, but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel":

"Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves. Beware of men; for they will deliver you up to councils, and flog you in their synagogues, and you will be dragged before governors and kings for my sake, to bear testimony before them and the Gentiles." (Matthew 10:16-18)

​

Again we are faced with the paradox: Jesus sends His disciples exclusively to the lost sheep of Israel; yet before them (in their synagogues) and the Gentiles they "bear testimony". Is this testimony simply a judicial testimony, words issuing from the disciples before kings and judges in the form of a court defense only?

Even if this were the case, still an abundance of evidence in the Gospel accounts indicates an understanding of a more positive participation of the Gentiles in God's Kingdom and the role of Jesus in this Gentile participation. This understanding is related to a host of references in the Old Testament regarding the future destiny of the Gentiles:

"And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed,
and all mankind shall see it together,
for the mouth of the Lord has spoken." (Isaiah 40:5)
​

"Listen to me, my people,
and give ear to me, my nation;
for a law will go forth from me,
and my justice for a light to the peoples." (Isaiah 51:4)

Arise, shine; for your light has come,
and the glory of the Lord has risen upon you,
For behold, darkness shall cover the earth
and thick darkness the peoples;
but the Lord will arise upon you
and His glory will appear over you.
And nations shall come to your light,
and kings to the brightness of your rising. (Isaiah 60:1-3)
​

​

 

[xXChristPeripheralXx]

Im not aware, as a gentile, of any pagan doctrine that indicates the coming of a messiah figure.

Without Christ, we are lost.

 

[Lion King]

That said, if asking whether or not it's the case that the Divine Messiah promised to the Jewish people was ever promised to the Gentile followers of him, I recall where the same question came up before in previous conversation (around Christmas time years ago) - although on the issue, as Abraham was both Gentile (in his original state during being called in Genesis 12-14) and Jew (when circumcision came into view in Genesis 15-17), the promise given to him which said that from his seed all nations would be blessed is a promise of the Messiah made for all mankind. There has never been a Messiah that was EXCLUSIVELY for the Jews only - nor was it really hidden as a concept within scripture.

^^^^This. Though I do not really believe that Abraham was ever an Israelite or Jew.

The Messiah was promised to both the Jews and the Gentiles. Infact, the prophecies concerning of the coming of the Messiah into the world were given even before the nation of Israel ever came to be.

And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel. Genesis 3:15


And I will bless them that bless you, and curse him that curses you: and in you shall all families of the earth be blessed. Genesis 12:3

 

[yedida]

Yes, I have to agree that the original promise of a Messiah came about long before there was ever an Israelite nation. Just because He was to come from an Israelite tribe was never meant to mean that He was for the Israelites only....

 

[Lulav]

Yet through G-d through Jeremiah says:

"My people have been lost sheep. Their shepherds have led them astray; They have turned them away on the mountains. They have gone from mountain to hill; They have forgotten their resting place.

And Yeshua said:

"I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

 

[Gxg (G²)]

And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel. Genesis 3:15[/FONT]


And I will bless them that bless you, and curse him that curses you: and in you shall all families of the earth be blessed. Genesis 12:3

Indeed....

 

[danny ski]

Literally speaking Gentiles already have a messiah. His name was Jesus. Our, Jewish, mashiach is not here, yet.

 

[annier]

Yet through G-d through Jeremiah says:


And Yeshua said:

Jesus did not say he was sent to SAVE except the house of Israel.

 

[Lulav]

Jesus did not say he was sent to SAVE except the house of Israel.

That was a direct quote

"I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

I do not understand what your contending?

His name means Salvation, Salvation was promised since Sinai, He was named Yeshua because

The angel said:
And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins."


Luke says:

And when eight days were completed for the circumcision of the Child, His name was called Jesus (Yeshua), the name given by the angel before He was conceived in the womb. 22 Now when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were completed, they brought Him to Jerusalem to present Him to the Lord 23 (as it is written in the law of the Lord, "Every male who opens the womb shall be called holy to the Lord"), 24 and to offer a sacrifice according to what is said in the law of the Lord, "A pair of turtledoves or two young pigeons." 25 And behold, there was a man in Jerusalem whose name was Simeon, and this man was just and devout, waiting for the Consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was upon him. 26 And it had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not see death before he had seen the Lord's Christ (Messiah).

27 So he came by the Spirit into the temple. And when the parents brought in the Child Jesus, to do for Him according to the custom of the law, 28 he took Him up in his arms and blessed God and said: 29 "Lord, now You are letting Your servant depart in peace, According to Your word; 30 For my eyes have seen Your salvation

 

[Lulav]

Literally speaking Gentiles already have a messiah. His name was Jesus. Our, Jewish, mashiach is not here, yet.

Still is his name.

I understand you consider him a Gentile Messiah, but why would the Gentiles have a Jewish Messiah? The writings say he came for his people, Israel.

How do we know our Jewish Mashiach has not arrived yet? Can we be so sure, maybe we missed him?

 

[annier]

That was a direct quote

"I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

I do not understand what your contending?

I am contending that Jesus never said he was sent to SAVE only Israel.

 

[yedida]

I am contending that Jesus never said he was sent to SAVE only Israel.


[/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT]

But that's exactly what He did say.....Even when He sent out the 70, He told them not to go into the gentile area, but to go to the lost sheep of Israel. Check it out for yourself. The call to the gentiles didn't come until after Israel rejected Him.

 

[xXChristPeripheralXx]

I am contending that Jesus never said he was sent to SAVE only Israel.


[/size][/color][/font]

Eph 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
Eph 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
Eph 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

 

[Lion King]

But that's exactly what He did say.....Even when He sent out the 70, He told them not to go into the gentile area, but to go to the lost sheep of Israel. Check it out for yourself. The call to the gentiles didn't come until after Israel rejected Him.

Jesus was fulfilling what was written in the Scriptures; salvation was for the Jews first, the Gentiles coming in after.

he says: "It is too small a thing for you to be my servant to restore the tribes of Jacob and bring back those of Israel I have kept. I will also make you a light for the Gentiles, that my salvation may reach to the ends of the earth." Isaiah 49:6

___

“Behold! My Servant whom I uphold,
My Elect One in whom My soul delights!
I have put My Spirit upon Him;
He will bring forth justice to the Gentiles.
2 He will not cry out, nor raise His voice,
Nor cause His voice to be heard in the street.
3 A bruised reed He will not break,
And smoking flax He will not quench;
He will bring forth justice for truth.
4 He will not fail nor be discouraged,
Till He has established justice in the earth;
And the coastlands shall wait for His law.” - Isaiah 42:1-4
_____

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” Matthew 28:19-20

 

[David Ben Yosef]

But were the Gentiles as a group (meaning all the other nations), distinct from Israel ever promised a Messiah to save them?

No. The gentiles must look to the Jewish Mashiakh for redemption. They are blessed through Abraham's seed. The only covenant promises to gentiles came through the covenant with Noach. HaShem promised not to destroy all flesh with a deluge again...etc. Hope this helps.

 

[Lion King]

That was a direct quote

"I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

I do not understand what your contending?

His name means Salvation, Salvation was promised since Sinai, He was named Yeshua because

The angel said:
And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins."

It is also written:

Then the angel said to them, “Do not be afraid, for behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy which will be to all people. For there is born to you this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord." Luke 2:10-11

Luke says:

And when eight days were completed for the circumcision of the Child, His name was called Jesus (Yeshua), the name given by the angel before He was conceived in the womb. 22 Now when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were completed, they brought Him to Jerusalem to present Him to the Lord 23 (as it is written in the law of the Lord, "Every male who opens the womb shall be called holy to the Lord"), 24 and to offer a sacrifice according to what is said in the law of the Lord, "A pair of turtledoves or two young pigeons." 25 And behold, there was a man in Jerusalem whose name was Simeon, and this man was just and devout, waiting for the Consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was upon him. 26 And it had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not see death before he had seen the Lord's Christ (Messiah).

27 So he came by the Spirit into the temple. And when the parents brought in the Child Jesus, to do for Him according to the custom of the law, 28 he took Him up in his arms and blessed God and said: 29 "Lord, now You are letting Your servant depart in peace, According to Your word; 30 For my eyes have seen Your salvation

Why stop at Luke 2:30?

And when eight days were completed for the circumcision of the Child, His name was called Jesus, the name given by the angel before He was conceived in the womb.

22 Now when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were completed, they brought Him to Jerusalem to present Him to the Lord 23 (as it is written in the law of the Lord, “Every male who opens the womb shall be called holy to the Lord”), 24 and to offer a sacrifice according to what is said in the law of the Lord, “A pair of turtledoves or two young pigeons.”

25 And behold, there was a man in Jerusalem whose name was Simeon, and this man was just and devout, waiting for the Consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was upon him. 26 And it had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not see death before he had seen the Lord’s Christ. 27 So he came by the Spirit into the temple. And when the parents brought in the Child Jesus, to do for Him according to the custom of the law, 28 he took Him up in his arms and blessed God and said:

29 “Lord, now You are letting Your servant depart in peace,
According to Your word;
30 For my eyes have seen Your salvation
31 Which You have prepared before the face of all peoples,
32 A light to bring revelation to the Gentiles,
And the glory of Your people Israel.” - Luke 2:21-32

Jesus the Christ was the Savior prepared for both Israel and the Gentiles. He was never meant for Israel alone.

 

[annier]

But that's exactly what He did say.....Even when He sent out the 70, He told them not to go into the gentile area, but to go to the lost sheep of Israel. Check it out for yourself. The call to the gentiles didn't come until after Israel rejected Him.

Going "first" to the Jews, is different than going to the Jews "only".

 

[Lulav]

I am contending that Jesus never said he was sent to SAVE only Israel.


[/size][/color][/font]

The messenger of G-d said this:

The angel said:
And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins."