Promiscuous Worship Team Member, and My Friend??

[Niffer]

I have a bit of a conundrum.
Remi and I have made friends with a young man in our church, he plays the djembe drum on our worship team at Church.
I too play the djembe, but not for church.

Like I said, he's young, around early 20's and has a 3 year old daughter. He's a single father, and dresses..well...like a dirty hippie, lots of tattoo's and piercings.
But he's always been very sweet, and is a quiet guy.

Anyway, Remi and I have befriended him, and we've had him and his daughter over for dinner etc.
In my mind, I kinda considered him the: "wild kid, gone straight but still keeps to the beat of his own drum."
Until a week ago.

There's a big folk/hippie festival around here, that Remi and I would've gone to, if I hadn't been giving birth, but our friend did go.
When I asked him how it was, he proudly told us (like it would be funny) about how he slept with two 50 year old cougars while drunk.
I was shocked, he has never spoken like that before, and I think he saw the disgust on my face, or something, because he quickly changed topics.

So I feel hurt, because I've publicly defended him when others have judged him based on his appearance/daughter, and insisted he "wasn't like that anymore."
But it turns out he is! ...Now in his defense, he never asked me to vouch for him, I did that on my own accord, so how can I get mad for him not living up to my standards, right?
But I do feel ...well...tricked.

My other issue is, he's on the worship team at church! Am I being a prude for thinking that someone who boasts about sleeping around, shouldn't be on the worship team?
And if I'm right, is it my responsibility to even go and talk to the pastor??

I am so clueless and hurt.
I really had a heart for him and his daughter - Remi likes them a lot too. We sorta wanted to adopt them as family..but now... I don't know if I want that sort of influence around my daughter.

Please help!

- Niff

 

[Autumnleaf]

What does Remi say about it?

 

[Niffer]

What does Remi say about it?

Remi is the most non-judgmental man on the planet.
When our friend told us about his sleeping around, Remi just kinda...said nothing.
As for the whole 'worship team' thing, he agrees with me that someone who boasts about stuff like that shouldn't be on the worship team, but, would tell me it's not my business to do anything about it.
Non-confrontational is key to my man!

Sooo...I guess he's just of the "let it slide" opinion..

 

[Autumnleaf]

I think the Bible says we're supposed to talk to our brethren when they stray from the correct path. Do it out of concern to let him know you care.

 

[FreeInChrist88]

My other issue is, he's on the worship team at church! Am I being a prude for thinking that someone who boasts about sleeping around, shouldn't be on the worship team?
And if I'm right, is it my responsibility to even go and talk to the pastor?

I can only provide my opinion which may be faulty but........

You and your husband should speak privately to the Pastor about this so that he is aware. I definitely would NOT talk to other people in the Church about it

This is a tricky situation because we don't want this guy to get ostracized by people in the church. The rejection would likely push him out the door and embitter him. His involvement and acceptance at your church may be the one positive influence in his life right now that will enable him to change.

OTH, if his current lifestyle is left unchecked, he could be a bad influence on not just your family but on many others as well. He could end up as the proverbial "wolf in sheep's clothing".

In any event, and this goes without saying, keep this guy in prayer because it is ultimately God who will change his heart.

 

[FreeInChrist88]

I think the Bible says we're supposed to talk to our brethren when they stray from the correct path. Do it out of concern to let him know you care.

I agree with that as well. However, I recommend that your husband do it or at minimum, he be there.

I would still discuss this privately with your pastor since he is the shepherd of the flock and has responsibility for the flock's safety. He should not be kept in the dark IMO.

 

[blythe_ann]

Hi, Niff! How sweet of you to try to help this guy out .

He may not have even realized that he was "tricking" you. I bet he thought you already knew, that's why he thought you would think it was funny or bragworthy.

I would suggest telling him it wasn't brag worthy at all. Christ hung out with the sinners of his day, forgiving them for their transgressions, but he didn't just let them get away with it (go and sin no more). This guy, and more importantly, his daughter, may have been placed in your life for YOUR influence. Turning away from him may be what he's gotten his whole life from religious types.

I'm not in your situation and I don't know the guy and you are one smart lady, so use the wisdom God has given you.

 

[WolfGate]

Difficult situation. My thoughts would line up pretty well with FreeinChrist88's.

You don't want him ostracized. You also shouldn't have him in a visible leading position if he feels that type of activity is OK. Depending on how long he's been following Christ, and given his age and background, it's entirely possible what is obvious to us is not to him. Santification is not an immediate process.

You pastor, as spiritual shepherd of the congregation, is in the position to help direct counseling this man. I hope that's in his skill set. It is a delicate thing to work through.

I would not "confront" him about it personally but if the subject came up or there was a good time to bring it up I'd perhaps ask him if he felt that behavior was consistent with following Christ. You'll learn a lot about where he is by how he answers, and can also give you perspective after hearing from him. Perhaps suggest he go talk to an elder or pastor in the church to get their thoughts as well.

 

[roseread]

If the pastor confronts this man with this, then I think he would know who told and that would ostracized him too.

 

[iambren]

Be biblical. You and Remi deal with him first to repent. If that doesn't work then involve the pastor. Ultimately it would become congregational and he would be asked to leave the church.

 

[Niffer]

All good points and lots of advice.
But what if I'm a wimp? I do like this guy, and I know he has a hard time making Christian friends, so the last thing I want to do is look "holier-than-thou" by pointing out his flaws.
Normally, I wouldn't be bothered, if he wasn't on the worship team.
I take very seriously the "plank in my own eye" view...

How do I even start the conversation with him??
- Niff

 

[hijklmnop]

Yikes. That is tough. I honestly have no idea what I would do. Just wanted to say I feel for you!!!

 

[blythe_ann]

I take the plank in your own eye seriously, too, Niff. That's usually the best position to be coming from, because if you were really the "holier than thou" type, he could smell it from a mile away.
It will most likely come up again, it almost always does if you start getting closer to someone. Then I would stop him, tell him sin isn't something to brag about and you can't pretend that it was okay behavior. You aren't a whimp, you will be helping this guy understand his Savior better, so you shouldn't be scared at all! You can do it!

 

[WalksWithChrist]

All good points and lots of advice.
But what if I'm a wimp? I do like this guy, and I know he has a hard time making Christian friends, so the last thing I want to do is look "holier-than-thou" by pointing out his flaws.
Normally, I wouldn't be bothered, if he wasn't on the worship team.
I take very seriously the "plank in my own eye" view...

How do I even start the conversation with him??
- Niff

I wish I could say I've never heard about this sort of problem before. As to how to deal with it, well. I really don't have too much additional wisdom. I would say keep mentoring him, but keep him more at arm's length considering your own children.
As for being on the worship team, hmm. Unless he's doing actual ministering (beyond just playing music that is) I wouldn't worry about it too much.

I used to be that scuzzy hippy-looking guy...just without the Cougar Hunting and kid. lol So there's hope for him.

 

[razeontherock]

I am so clueless and hurt.
I really had a heart for him and his daughter - Remi likes them a lot too. We sorta wanted to adopt them as family..but now... I don't know if I want that sort of influence around my daughter.

Please help!

- Niff

Remi is your husband? The Bible does leave a clear point when it is appropriate to disassociate from the person you're concerned about - but you are NOT THERE!

As salt and light, we (including you) are to influence those around us, NOT be influenced by them! Yes, easier said than done. Please note the level of conflict this could potentially create with your husband, and realize this is something you need to "go alone," at least for now. You need some real maturity to interact correctly in this situation, and you have NO choice but to interact. Remember Cain and yes, we ARE our brother's keeper.

Have you considered fasting? Do not underestimate how drastic this situation is:

Romans 12:21 "Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good."

Young lady, this is living the Gospel in a nutshell! I hope I am merely repeating the overwhelming bulk of advice you have gotten already, being but one voice in a cloud of witnesses about G-d's Truth in such matters:

Step 1) Go to him privately. Much more than being concerned about "not being confrontational," be STRONG, and prepared, with a THICK "prayer covering" going ahead of you, for the Lord to prepare his heart to receive light in this area of darkness. The idea here is Mercy, and the goodness of G-d to bring him to actual repentance.

Step 2) If he acts with contrition, be wise that this =/= "fruits fitting of repentance." You already know that neither you nor your husband are the best candidates for helping him stay honest and true about this. Offer him support at the moment, but be firm about his need to not be isolated, but joined to the Church as a functioning member. I'm not talking about official Church membership or serving on the worship team, but a life of following the Lord, which includes Discipleship and close relationships with believers.

Alternate step 2) IF he "refuses to hear you," being stubborn, laughing it off as if it doesn't matter and refusing to acknowledge it is sin THEN you talk to your Pastor or other Church leadership about it NOT to gossip, but for the purpose of confronting him in a fashion he (hopefully) won't just blow off. The goal here is still the same as step 1, but the idea is it is not just "you vs him." At this stage you want to make it clear he has a choice of being openly rebellious against the Church and cut off from it and by extension also separating himself from Christ -- or actually following the Lord like he professes to do.

Step 3) This is what you were ready to do in your OP - cut him off entirely for fear of his being a bad influence, but this only happens IF he openly decides to turn his back on the Lord. We don't turn our backs on our Brothers and Sisters!

While this is still a real fear of anyone being a bad influence while following the Lord's process from Matthew 18 that I'm outlining here, if he is willing to co-operate YOU need to walk in forgiveness, acting as if no wrong had ever been committed, just as Jesus forgave you. (And me!)

This is serious! It puts substance to the words "trust Jesus." (That last sentence is intentionally very under-stated)

This is a very difficult situation you are in, and the road to pleasing the Lord in this is very narrow indeed! Handle it properly and it will strengthen your new family immensely. Fast, pray, seek the Lord, cry out to Him in intercession not merely as if it were your own soul on the line, but realizing it IS. Maybe fasting is not physically appropriate for you right now, but there are many partial measures the Lord will honor in such a case. Look at why we do this:

"this is the kind of fasting I want:
Free those who are wrongly imprisoned;
lighten the burden of those who work for you.
Let the oppressed go free,
and remove the chains that bind people.
7 Share your food with the hungry,
and give shelter to the homeless.
Give clothes to those who need them,
and do not hide from relatives who need your help.

8 “Then your salvation will come like the dawn,
and your wounds will quickly heal.
Your godliness will lead you forward,
and the glory of the Lord will protect you from behind.
9 Then when you call, the Lord will answer.
‘Yes, I am here,’ he will quickly reply.

“Remove the heavy yoke of oppression.
Stop pointing your finger and spreading vicious rumors!
10 Feed the hungry,
and help those in trouble.
Then your light will shine out from the darkness,
and the darkness around you will be as bright as noon.
11 The Lord will guide you continually,
giving you water when you are dry
and restoring your strength.
You will be like a well-watered garden,
like an ever-flowing spring."

And that's the Gospel, according to Isaiah 58, New Living Translation

 

[WalksWithChrist]

Remi is your husband? The Bible does leave a clear point when it is appropriate to disassociate from the person you're concerned about - but you are NOT THERE!

As salt and light, we (including you) are to influence those around us, NOT be influenced by them! Yes, easier said than done. Please note the level of conflict this could potentially create with your husband, and realize this is something you need to "go alone," at least for now. You need some real maturity to interact correctly in this situation, and you have NO choice but to interact. Remember Cain and yes, we ARE our brother's keeper.

Have you considered fasting? Do not underestimate how drastic this situation is:

Romans 12:21 "Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good."

Young lady, this is living the Gospel in a nutshell! I hope I am merely repeating the overwhelming bulk of advice you have gotten already, being but one voice in a cloud of witnesses about G-d's Truth in such matters:

Step 1) Go to him privately. Much more than being concerned about "not being confrontational," be STRONG, and prepared, with a THICK "prayer covering" going ahead of you, for the Lord to prepare his heart to receive light in this area of darkness. The idea here is Mercy, and the goodness of G-d to bring him to actual repentance.

Step 2) If he acts with contrition, be wise that this =/= "fruits fitting of repentance." You already know that neither you nor your husband are the best candidates for helping him stay honest and true about this. Offer him support at the moment, but be firm about his need to not be isolated, but joined to the Church as a functioning member. I'm not talking about official Church membership or serving on the worship team, but a life of following the Lord, which includes Discipleship and close relationships with believers.

Alternate step 2) IF he "refuses to hear you," being stubborn, laughing it off as if it doesn't matter and refusing to acknowledge it is sin THEN you talk to your Pastor or other Church leadership about it NOT to gossip, but for the purpose of confronting him in a fashion he (hopefully) won't just blow off. The goal here is still the same as step 1, but the idea is it is not just "you vs him." At this stage you want to make it clear he has a choice of being openly rebellious against the Church and cut off from it and by extension also separating himself from Christ -- or actually following the Lord like he professes to do.

Step 3) This is what you were ready to do in your OP - cut him off entirely for fear of his being a bad influence, but this only happens IF he openly decides to turn his back on the Lord. We don't turn our backs on our Brothers and Sisters!

While this is still a real fear of anyone being a bad influence while following the Lord's process from Matthew 18 that I'm outlining here, if he is willing to co-operate YOU need to walk in forgiveness, acting as if no wrong had ever been committed, just as Jesus forgave you. (And me!)

This is serious! It puts substance to the words "trust Jesus." (That last sentence is intentionally very under-stated)

This is a very difficult situation you are in, and the road to pleasing the Lord in this is very narrow indeed! Handle it properly and it will strengthen your new family immensely. Fast, pray, seek the Lord, cry out to Him in intercession not merely as if it were your own soul on the line, but realizing it IS. Maybe fasting is not physically appropriate for you right now, but there are many partial measures the Lord will honor in such a case. Look at why we do this:

"this is the kind of fasting I want:
Free those who are wrongly imprisoned;
lighten the burden of those who work for you.
Let the oppressed go free,
and remove the chains that bind people.
7 Share your food with the hungry,
and give shelter to the homeless.
Give clothes to those who need them,
and do not hide from relatives who need your help.

8 “Then your salvation will come like the dawn,
and your wounds will quickly heal.
Your godliness will lead you forward,
and the glory of the Lord will protect you from behind.
9 Then when you call, the Lord will answer.
‘Yes, I am here,’ he will quickly reply.

“Remove the heavy yoke of oppression.
Stop pointing your finger and spreading vicious rumors!
10 Feed the hungry,
and help those in trouble.
Then your light will shine out from the darkness,
and the darkness around you will be as bright as noon.
11 The Lord will guide you continually,
giving you water when you are dry
and restoring your strength.
You will be like a well-watered garden,
like an ever-flowing spring."

And that's the Gospel, according to Isaiah 58, New Living Translation

Fasting's not a good idea at all for a gal who recently gave birth. Just sayin.

 

[razeontherock]

Yes, that is covered ...

 

[mkgal1]

I think that because you and Remi like this guy (and his daughter), you should bring this up with him. Not in a finger-wagging kind of way (can't even imagine you doing that), but out of concern and love for him. Maybe approaching it from the angle of wondering why he wants to get drunk and sleep with women he just met (and isn't interested in more). Does he feel that he is "missing out" by having a child at a young age? Is his opinion of "God's way" a way of missing out on "good things"?

Like others have said....you can sort of tell by his responsive attitude whether or not he "hears" you. I agree that he may have been placed in "your path" for good reason. You two may be the best instruments to help him turn his life around (for the sake of both he AND his daughter that depends on him).

 

[WalksWithChrist]

Yes, that is covered ...

Covered? I don't understand.

 

[mkgal1]

Fasting's not a good idea at all for a gal who recently gave birth. Just sayin.

He did cover that. The rest is awesome advice.....IMO.