Profound apologies

[Miserere]

I want to say here that I am truly sorry for my heated replies to some of the threads on this board. I'm going through some serious spiritual agony right now...I'm Catholic, but I am so close to going back to being Methodist. What happened was that I read an article about the Newtown shooting in my diocesan magazine and there was a paragraph quoting the Vatican paper that said something like "The NRA was entrenched behind an embarrassing silence."
This pretty much made me flip my lid; I was incensed. I thought, "These people have some nerve sticking their nose into America's business when it comes to the 2nd Amendment. Let the Pope disarm his guard first, and then I might reconsider the whole argument."

The other thing is, I am a traditional Catholic. I love the Latin Mass, but I can't get to one because I don't drive. This whole Novus Ordo Mass drives me crazy; I'm not going to lie to you. I feel as though it's a Protestantized service, so I figure that if it's going to be like that, I might as well just go back to being Protestant. At least I'd be consistent.

Anyway, I just thought I'd apologize to y'all and explain what's going on in my muddled mind. Thanks for reading.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Hey sounds like you could use a hug ((hug))

Remember, people speak of their own points of view, even in the vatican. This is not a matter of doctrine. Obviously dsarming would allow exactly what the founding fathers put the 2nd amendment in to prevent, a tyrannical government taking over without the ability of the people to defend themselves.

Also, remember, it takes time for things to correct, and the pendulum is swinging back the other way, those who wanted to destroy the Church have lost their bid, though it may take time for things to filter down. But remember, there is more than can be contained in heaven an earth in the Mass, even the Novus Order.

You have the Eucharist, the summit and pinnacle of our faith. You will not find that in a Methodist church ever. You will not find the Real Presence. You will not find the Divine Sanctifying Grace that comes through the Sacraments. You will loose sooo much that Jesus died to give you.

Do not look on the appearances and allow yourself to be offended. Trust God that He is at work and the Holy Spirit is moving to rectify errors in practice.

The Church is the Church and nothing can replace Her. Nothing.

Hold tight to Her dispite the problems you see in how individuals, including priests, practice the faith. Be true to the truth.

 

[Miserere]

Thanks for the hug and the answer. My sensible side keeps telling me exactly what you just said. I need to get control of my impulses, I suppose.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Thanks for the hug and the answer. My sensible side keeps telling me exactly what you just said. I need to get control of my impulses, I suppose.

Maybe there is a perpetual adoration chapel near you, you can visit and spend time on a regular basis. It will help greatly if you can.

 

[Brooklyn Knight]

So the Vatican should keep mum with how things are done in the U.S.?

If we're going by that train of thought, they should really keep mum with regards to same-sex marriages, the widening gap between the rich and the poor, abortions, capital punishment, the lack of adequate health care...you know what, anything that portrays the U.S. as incompetent and stupid, Vatican, shut up!

 

[ebia]

So the Vatican should keep mum with how things are done in the U.S.?

If we're going by that train of thought, they should really keep mum with regards to same-sex marriages, the widening gap between the rich and the poor, abortions, capital punishment, the lack of adequate health care...you know what, anything that portrays the U.S. as incompetent and stupid, Vatican, shut up!

Didn't you realise that the US Constitution trumps the Church when it comes to infallibility?

 

[Rhamiel]

Hello my dear sister in Christ

we all get down sometime
cling to Christ who is our Salvation

 

[Miserere]

So the Vatican should keep mum with how things are done in the U.S.?

If we're going by that train of thought, they should really keep mum with regards to same-sex marriages, the widening gap between the rich and the poor, abortions, capital punishment, the lack of adequate health care...you know what, anything that portrays the U.S. as incompetent and stupid, Vatican, shut up!

Thank you for making up my mind as to whether or not I should go back to the Methodist church. Your answer is greatly appreciated.

I don't see how you can put gay marriage and abortion on the same level with trying to defend yourself from violence. I believe in the 2nd Amendment, and no one from the Vatican--NO ONE--is going to change my mind about that. I don't do liberal Catholicism.

From the Catechism:
Legitimate defense

2263 The legitimate defense of persons and societies is not an exception to the prohibition against the murder of the innocent that constitutes intentional killing. "The act of self-defense can have a double effect: the preservation of one's own life; and the killing of the aggressor.... The one is intended, the other is not."[65]
2264 Love toward oneself remains a fundamental principle of morality. Therefore it is legitimate to insist on respect for one's own right to life. Someone who defends his life is not guilty of murder even if he is forced to deal his aggressor a lethal blow:
If a man in self-defense uses more than necessary violence, it will be unlawful: whereas if he repels force with moderation, his defense will be lawful.... Nor is it necessary for salvation that a man omit the act of moderate self-defense to avoid killing the other man, since one is bound to take more care of one's own life than of another's.[65]
2265 Legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for someone responsible for another's life. Preserving the common good requires rendering the unjust aggressor unable to inflict harm. To this end, those holding legitimate authority have the right to repel by armed force aggressors against the civil community entrusted to their charge.[66]

I'm curious as to know what sorts of remarks this is going to bring about. They still won't change my mind, however.

 

[Rhamiel]

the right to defends oneself is a God given right
this has been understood by the Church

 

[WarriorAngel]

I take week off - for deaths - and dont know what's going on. You ought to see when i take a year off.

I want to say here that I am truly sorry for my heated replies to some of the threads on this board. I'm going through some serious spiritual agony right now...I'm Catholic, but I am so close to going back to being Methodist. What happened was that I read an article about the Newtown shooting in my diocesan magazine and there was a paragraph quoting the Vatican paper that said something like "The NRA was entrenched behind an embarrassing silence."
This pretty much made me flip my lid; I was incensed. I thought, "These people have some nerve sticking their nose into America's business when it comes to the 2nd Amendment. Let the Pope disarm his guard first, and then I might reconsider the whole argument."

The other thing is, I am a traditional Catholic. I love the Latin Mass, but I can't get to one because I don't drive. This whole Novus Ordo Mass drives me crazy; I'm not going to lie to you. I feel as though it's a Protestantized service, so I figure that if it's going to be like that, I might as well just go back to being Protestant. At least I'd be consistent.

Anyway, I just thought I'd apologize to y'all and explain what's going on in my muddled mind. Thanks for reading.

A few questions - ok.

Who writes your diocesan magazine?
And what does the quote mean? The NRA was entrenched behind an embarrassing silence.

I take it with a grain of salt.
The Catechism speaks volumes... Popes of the past spoke volumes. Our current Pope hasnt said anything that would conradict our freedom or the right to defend ourselves.

BUT in these times, know that many - if not most - will bend over backwards or forwards to follow the agendas out there - without realizing the harm of the future.

Nevertheless; i cannot tell you what to do - [tho Methodists dont have the Real Body and Blood of the Lord] - if it were me - and yah it's me too - i'd stay where the Lord is [N.O. or Latin] because the sacraments keep us in His graces - the rest is about our mind.

Regardless who the priest is, the Rite is, the bells and whistles - it comes down to the graces we receive and thru His Body and Blood too.

I am pro 2nd amendment and anyone who wishes to bully that right - doesnt get my ear. And the Pope isnt doing anything. You are correct he uses hired guns too. Everything else is just - an agenda some will push.

 

[Brooklyn Knight]

I don't see how you can put gay marriage and abortion on the same level with trying to defend yourself from violence. I believe in the 2nd Amendment, and no one from the Vatican--NO ONE--is going to change my mind about that. I don't do liberal Catholicism.

All firearm homicides are as a result of "self-defense" in this country? So, all these fatalities were - in fact - a result of standing your ground?Let's not be try to be coy or oblivious to our high number of homicide rates, which is mostly spurred by how freely accessible it is to get a firearm and all the numerous loopholes that are in place in various States. Hmm, the Vatican is now entrenched in "liberal Catholicism" because, clearly, owning guns is a God given right.

I'm curious as to know what sorts of remarks this is going to bring about. They still won't change my mind, however.

Just remember what the Bible says:

"To err is human, but to pop a cap in someone's kneecap, that is so AWESOME, and 2nd Amendment >> JESUS!"

By the by, I happen to own a Remington rifle and a Beretta shotgun.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Thank you for making up my mind as to whether or not I should go back to the Methodist church. Your answer is greatly appreciated.

I don't see how you can put gay marriage and abortion on the same level with trying to defend yourself from violence. I believe in the 2nd Amendment, and no one from the Vatican--NO ONE--is going to change my mind about that. I don't do liberal Catholicism.

From the Catechism:
Legitimate defense

2263 The legitimate defense of persons and societies is not an exception to the prohibition against the murder of the innocent that constitutes intentional killing. "The act of self-defense can have a double effect: the preservation of one's own life; and the killing of the aggressor.... The one is intended, the other is not."[65]
2264 Love toward oneself remains a fundamental principle of morality. Therefore it is legitimate to insist on respect for one's own right to life. Someone who defends his life is not guilty of murder even if he is forced to deal his aggressor a lethal blow:
If a man in self-defense uses more than necessary violence, it will be unlawful: whereas if he repels force with moderation, his defense will be lawful.... Nor is it necessary for salvation that a man omit the act of moderate self-defense to avoid killing the other man, since one is bound to take more care of one's own life than of another's.[65]
2265 Legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for someone responsible for another's life. Preserving the common good requires rendering the unjust aggressor unable to inflict harm. To this end, those holding legitimate authority have the right to repel by armed force aggressors against the civil community entrusted to their charge.[66]

I'm curious as to know what sorts of remarks this is going to bring about. They still won't change my mind, however.

Honestly, if that answer pushes you one direction or another, then your reasons for chosing which Church to belong to are greatly flawed.

You should decide based on where the fullness of truth is found and the sacraments and the real presence. Any other reason takes what Jesus died to give us and toss it to the side in favor of what makes one feel good.

 

[Miserere]

Oh my freaking God, I just wanted to apologize and explain why I said what I said, and I'm getting crucified for it! I'm not about to keep defending my position to you people! I believe in the 2nd Amendment! I'm sorry if that offends some of you--well, no I'm not. I guess that's what I get when trying to talk to liberal Catholics. I'm sorry I even bothered to apologize.

 

[Tallguy88]

All firearm homicides are as a result of "self-defense" in this country? So, all these fatalities were - in fact - a result of standing your ground?Let's not be try to be coy or oblivious to our high number of homicide rates, which is mostly spurred by how freely accessible it is to get a firearm and all the numerous loopholes that are in place in various States. Hmm, the Vatican is now entrenched in "liberal Catholicism" because, clearly, owning guns is a God given right.

Just remember what the Bible says:

"To err is human, but to pop a cap in someone's kneecap, that is so AWESOME, and 2nd Amendment >> JESUS!"

By the by, I happen to own a Remington rifle and a Beretta shotgun.

Back the heck off! What are you trying to do, drive him away from the faith because he disagrees with you politically? He obviously has some issues he's trying to work through and you're beating him up over them. Just stop.

 

[MikeK]

Oh my freaking God, I just wanted to apologize and explain why I said what I said, and I'm getting crucified for it! I'm not about to keep defending my position to you people! I believe in the 2nd Amendment! I'm sorry if that offends some of you--well, no I'm not. I guess that's what I get when trying to talk to liberal Catholics. I'm sorry I even bothered to apologize.

I'm not sure you know what a liberal Catholic is, I'm not sure that you understand exactly what the Supreme Court had decided that the 2nd Ammendment does and does not say, and given your flippant use of the term "crucified" to describe your treatment on a web forum, I'm not sure that you're all that serious about your devotion to Christ to begin with.

 

[Rhamiel]

wow how about everyone relax a bit and have a glass of wine

I have a nice bottle of Prosecco

I think Champagne has a more mature flavor but the Prosecco goes better with lighter fare, so we can have that with some melon maybe?


anyways, lets not drive away new members

 

[maryofoxford]

I want to say here that I am truly sorry for my heated replies to some of the threads on this board. I'm going through some serious spiritual agony right now...I'm Catholic, but I am so close to going back to being Methodist. What happened was that I read an article about the Newtown shooting in my diocesan magazine and there was a paragraph quoting the Vatican paper that said something like "The NRA was entrenched behind an embarrassing silence."
This pretty much made me flip my lid; I was incensed. I thought, "These people have some nerve sticking their nose into America's business when it comes to the 2nd Amendment. Let the Pope disarm his guard first, and then I might reconsider the whole argument."

The other thing is, I am a traditional Catholic. I love the Latin Mass, but I can't get to one because I don't drive. This whole Novus Ordo Mass drives me crazy; I'm not going to lie to you. I feel as though it's a Protestantized service, so I figure that if it's going to be like that, I might as well just go back to being Protestant. At least I'd be consistent.

Anyway, I just thought I'd apologize to y'all and explain what's going on in my muddled mind. Thanks for reading.

My dear Sister in Christ,

I realize that it's difficult to be in a huge worldwide church, because of all of the differences in the way each pastor runs his own parish (despite the fact that they should be listening and obeying their bishop.)

To address your problem. My son is the managing editor for our diocese Catholic newspaper, and is in charge of it's content. Each editor is in charge of the content of the paper or magazine, not the Vatican and not the pope. Usually the local Bishop doesn't even see the articles before they go out, even though he is ultimately in charge. (The bishop should warn his editor if he sees articles that contain non-Catholic opinion, or remarks that are inappropriate, and watch to make sure they don't continue to happen.)

Sometimes the writers of these articles get their information from sources like the AP instead of the Vatican. This is something that they should never do, and it's up to their editors to make sure they don't. But, if the editors and the Bishop isn't overseeing the writers well enough, you SHOULD make sure that you voice your complaints. The sentence that you quoted was inflammatory, and had no place in that article.

Even if the writer was quoting a Vatican source, it has happened that the source they quote, doesn't have the authority to speak for the Pope. They are simply stating their own opinion. Since most are members of a foreign country and so can't relate to our Constitution, their opinions count for very little. The ONLY person that has the authority to speak for the Church is the Pope, and what he says is only opinion UNLESS he speaks as the HEAD of the CATHOLIC CHURCH and says so. Even then he must say that he is asking all Catholics to practice his stated belief.

Since this is FAR from the case here, don't let it bother you one bit. You are correct in quoting the Catechism of the Catholic Church, for that is the Church speaking to it's members regarding what beliefs you are to be in agreement with as Catholics. ANY OTHER VIEWS AS FAR AS WHETHER PEOPLE OF THIS COUNTRY SHOULD GIVE UP THEIR PERSONAL WEAPONS IS STRICTLY PERSONAL VIEWS. So far as I am concerned, the Catholic Church says that I should protect myself and innocent people. Therefore if I wish to own weapons to protect myself and others, and use them only for these purposes and to feed ourselves, then I am following God. The Pope and the Bishops in Union with the Pope speak for the Church. The Catechism states what our beliefs are according to the people that Jesus Christ placed in charge of guiding us. So long as we follow them then we are following Christ.

As far as wishing to attend only the Latin Mass; you have a right to request that a Latin Mass be said in your parish. If you can find others that would like this, your pastor is obligated to provide this for you. I don't know how many people need to request that a Latin Mass be said to have one offered, but I'm sure that you can find that info at the Vatican web site, or even your diocesan web site. It is your right as a Catholic to be offered this mass. If you cannot find one near you, you might consider taking out an ad in your local church paper to see if anyone that attends your parish might be interested in driving you to a neighboring parish for this type of mass.

Peace be with you.

 

[Brooklyn Knight]

Back the heck off! What are you trying to do, drive him away from the faith because he disagrees with you politically? He obviously has some issues he's trying to work through and you're beating him up over them. Just stop.

Poster is a female, FYI.

Well, I do take issue with someone saying the Vatican is spouting "liberal Catholicism" then adds that they're curious to know what others will say whilst acknowledging they won't have a change of heart on the matter of possessing a firearm, while trying to portray all firearm homicides as self-defense, and said poster has issue with the Vatican sticking their nose in matters that solely pertain to the U.S.

I mean...it's not like the glaring high body count has anything to do with it.

Oh my freaking God, I just wanted to apologize and explain why I said what I said, and I'm getting crucified for it! I'm not about to keep defending my position to you people! I believe in the 2nd Amendment! I'm sorry if that offends some of you--well, no I'm not. I guess that's what I get when trying to talk to liberal Catholics. I'm sorry I even bothered to apologize.

Except, the Vatican isn't saying to abolish all firearms, and I'm probably the last - or maybe somewhere in the middle - poster to be considered liberal.

And again, I possess two firearms myself; looking into procuring a third later this year. Should I divulge in the number of knives I own as well?

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Oh my freaking God, I just wanted to apologize and explain why I said what I said, and I'm getting crucified for it! I'm not about to keep defending my position to you people! I believe in the 2nd Amendment! I'm sorry if that offends some of you--well, no I'm not. I guess that's what I get when trying to talk to liberal Catholics. I'm sorry I even bothered to apologize.

You're problem is that you're mixing secular political ideology with religion.

Christ should be the center of your faith, and you're desire should be to follow his will, even if it means abandoning your political beliefs.

When we accept Jesus into our lives, we die to self and surrender all of our being to Him.

If you keep your hand to the plow and look back, you will not move forward in faith.

But only you can decide where you want to be with regards to being one of Jesus' disciples.


Prayer, is your path to faith.


Jim

 

[WarriorAngel]

Killers are gonna hate. Makes it all the more auspicious to own defense.
For one thing - having a weapon that deters someone from killing another - saves them from a mortal sin. And an entire lifetime of deep painful regret. [if they have a conscience at all]


So having defensive weapons - if only for defense - does stop crime, and does inadvertently save souls. Those who would be killed otherwise, and those who would kill.

The Church hasnt asked us to stop defending ourselves. Their wisdom knows - especially women - are most vulnerable without a means to protect themselves could become in greater numbers - victims of attacks..