Problems in Genesis

[leftrightleftrightleft]

I have just been reading through Genesis for the first time in several years and I have a few questions.

1) Why does God switch between plural and singular throughout the first two chapters of Genesis? For example, Genesis 1:26 reads, "Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness". Notice how he refers to himself as "us" and "our". I have read before that this is an indication that early story-tellers were polytheistic and/or animist and this polytheism crept into the text and remained. This plural vs. singular issue arises in Genesis 1:26 and Genesis 3:22. As far as I know, this is the only time in the entire Bible where God speaks in the plural. It is strange that it just so happens to occur in one of the oldest stories when polytheism was more common.

2) Why does God discourage knowledge? Very early on it is the "tree of knowledge and good and evil" which is expressly prohibited (Genesis 2:16). Having "your eyes opened" is implied to be a very bad thing that God does not want. Why would God not want us to know more and learn more? Why would God want to keep us ignorant and stupid? The serpent encourages the woman to disobey God in order to learn and expand her mind (Genesis 3:4). Is this not a good encouragement? If my child came home and told me that her teacher forbid her to read a book because the teacher thought it would lead to more knowledge, I would for sure take on the role of the serpent and encourage my child to disobey her teacher. For sure.

3) Why does God punish Cain? Reading the text in Genesis 4:1-7, it is not at all clear why God rejects Cain's offering. It also seems that God did not make his expectation clear to Cain at all. Cain is surprised by the rejection. It seems so random, harsh and vindictive. "You will be accepted if you do what is right", God says. Why is bringing vegetables and food from the ground "wrong"? And why is bringing animals as a gift "right"? And, more importantly, why doesn't God make his expectations clearer?


These couple examples really muddy the waters on what kind of God we are supposed to be following. Is it a God or a set of gods? Is it a god who loves knowledge and desires us to learn or a god who hates knowledge and prefers our ignorance? Is it a god who tells us what we've done wrong and gives us a chance or is it a god who punishes in a seemingly random fashion without warning?

 

[HTacianas]

I have just been reading through Genesis for the first time in several years and I have a few questions.

1) Why does God switch between plural and singular throughout the first two chapters of Genesis? For example, Genesis 1:26 reads, "Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness". Notice how he refers to himself as "us" and "our". I have read before that this is an indication that early story-tellers were polytheistic and/or animist and this polytheism crept into the text and remained. This plural vs. singular issue arises in Genesis 1:26 and Genesis 3:22. As far as I know, this is the only time in the entire Bible where God speaks in the plural. It is strange that it just so happens to occur in one of the oldest stories when polytheism was more common.

2) Why does God discourage knowledge? Very early on it is the "tree of knowledge and good and evil" which is expressly prohibited (Genesis 2:16). Having "your eyes opened" is implied to be a very bad thing that God does not want. Why would God not want us to know more and learn more? Why would God want to keep us ignorant and stupid? The serpent encourages the woman to disobey God in order to learn and expand her mind (Genesis 3:4). Is this not a good encouragement? If my child came home and told me that her teacher forbid her to read a book because the teacher thought it would lead to more knowledge, I would for sure take on the role of the serpent and encourage my child to disobey her teacher. For sure.

3) Why does God punish Cain? Reading the text in Genesis 4:1-7, it is not at all clear why God rejects Cain's offering. It also seems that God did not make his expectation clear to Cain at all. Cain is surprised by the rejection. It seems so random, harsh and vindictive. "You will be accepted if you do what is right", God says. Why is bringing vegetables and food from the ground "wrong"? And why is bringing animals as a gift "right"? And, more importantly, why doesn't God make his expectations clearer?


These couple examples really muddy the waters on what kind of God we are supposed to be following. Is it a God or a set of gods? Is it a god who loves knowledge and desires us to learn or a god who hates knowledge and prefers our ignorance? Is it a god who tells us what we've done wrong and gives us a chance or is it a god who punishes in a seemingly random fashion without warning?

We could go on and on about the "we" of Genesis. I've read so many theories on it that run from polytheism, to the Trinity, to the "majestic plural", and everything in between. If you read Philo and his ideas on the nature of God, he has it that God the Father is flanked by His two powers, one the creative power, the other the Regent power. Through one power He creates and sustains all things, and through the other he rules His creation. To the uninitiated mind God appears as a Triad, but to the enlightened mind God is One.

Point 2. God does not discourage knowledge. It is the knowledge of good and evil that is harmful. To have no knowledge of good and evil is to not ever be guilty of wrong, as the wrong is done in ignorance rather than through guilt. God told Jonah that He didn't want to destroy Ninevah for the sake of those who did not "know their right from left", meaning children who did not know right from wrong and therefore did not share in the guilt of their parents.

Point 3. God rejected the offering of Cain because Cain's heart was not right. He said to Cain, "If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted?". The meaning is that Cain must behave himself before his offering would be accepted. So God punished Cain for his bad behavior.

 

[SeventyOne]

I have just been reading through Genesis for the first time in several years and I have a few questions.

1) Why does God switch between plural and singular throughout the first two chapters of Genesis? For example, Genesis 1:26 reads, "Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness". Notice how he refers to himself as "us" and "our". I have read before that this is an indication that early story-tellers were polytheistic and/or animist and this polytheism crept into the text and remained. This plural vs. singular issue arises in Genesis 1:26 and Genesis 3:22. As far as I know, this is the only time in the entire Bible where God speaks in the plural. It is strange that it just so happens to occur in one of the oldest stories when polytheism was more common.

2) Why does God discourage knowledge? Very early on it is the "tree of knowledge and good and evil" which is expressly prohibited (Genesis 2:16). Having "your eyes opened" is implied to be a very bad thing that God does not want. Why would God not want us to know more and learn more? Why would God want to keep us ignorant and stupid? The serpent encourages the woman to disobey God in order to learn and expand her mind (Genesis 3:4). Is this not a good encouragement? If my child came home and told me that her teacher forbid her to read a book because the teacher thought it would lead to more knowledge, I would for sure take on the role of the serpent and encourage my child to disobey her teacher. For sure.

3) Why does God punish Cain? Reading the text in Genesis 4:1-7, it is not at all clear why God rejects Cain's offering. It also seems that God did not make his expectation clear to Cain at all. Cain is surprised by the rejection. It seems so random, harsh and vindictive. "You will be accepted if you do what is right", God says. Why is bringing vegetables and food from the ground "wrong"? And why is bringing animals as a gift "right"? And, more importantly, why doesn't God make his expectations clearer?


These couple examples really muddy the waters on what kind of God we are supposed to be following. Is it a God or a set of gods? Is it a god who loves knowledge and desires us to learn or a god who hates knowledge and prefers our ignorance? Is it a god who tells us what we've done wrong and gives us a chance or is it a god who punishes in a seemingly random fashion without warning?

1. God being a trinity is 3-in-1 and 1-in-3, perhaps the only being where both singular and plural can rightly apply. There are also some who believe some 'divine council' in in play here, but I'm not sold on that aspect.

2. God doesn't discourage knowledge. This was a very specific knowledge. I think we'd all be better off not having become intimately knowledgeable concerning evil. Would you take on the role of the 'serpent' if you found out the teacher was wanting to prevent your child from reading about graphic and violent inappropriate content, or are there circumstances where you'd stand with the teacher?

3. What makes you think the expectations on Cain's offering weren't clear? After all, Able got it, so it was available. A blood sacrifice was required. Able provided that, and he was accepted. Cain decided to do his own thing and openly dishonor God, and his was rejected. No surprise there.

 

[mark kennedy]

I have just been reading through Genesis for the first time in several years and I have a few questions.

1) Why does God switch between plural and singular throughout the first two chapters of Genesis? For example, Genesis 1:26 reads, "Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness". Notice how he refers to himself as "us" and "our". I have read before that this is an indication that early story-tellers were polytheistic and/or animist and this polytheism crept into the text and remained. This plural vs. singular issue arises in Genesis 1:26 and Genesis 3:22. As far as I know, this is the only time in the entire Bible where God speaks in the plural. It is strange that it just so happens to occur in one of the oldest stories when polytheism was more common.

That's called the plurality of magesty, the idea is that God 'Elohim' is almighty. Everything in that passage is in absolute terms. While it might seem like a hint of the Trinity in that passage it really isn't, it's describing God Almighty in the strongest possible terms.

2) Why does God discourage knowledge?

Very early on it is the "tree of knowledge and good and evil" which is expressly prohibited (Genesis 2:16). Having "your eyes opened" is implied to be a very bad thing that God does not want. Why would God not want us to know more and learn more? Why would God want to keep us ignorant and stupid? The serpent encourages the woman to disobey God in order to learn and expand her mind (Genesis 3:4). Is this not a good encouragement? If my child came home and told me that her teacher forbid her to read a book because the teacher thought it would lead to more knowledge, I would for sure take on the role of the serpent and encourage my child to disobey her teacher. For sure.

Knowledge of what? Wisdom in that context is the idea of a skill system, the application of knowledge. Evil never exists alone, it's a pretty poor like that has no truth.

3) Why does God punish Cain?

Reading the text in Genesis 4:1-7, it is not at all clear why God rejects Cain's offering. It also seems that God did not make his expectation clear to Cain at all. Cain is surprised by the rejection. It seems so random, harsh and vindictive. "You will be accepted if you do what is right", God says. Why is bringing vegetables and food from the ground "wrong"? And why is bringing animals as a gift "right"? And, more importantly, why doesn't God make his expectations clearer?

Originally, God didn't punish him he just rejected the sacrifice. When Cain kills Abel it was when people could live hundreds of years. He was in a frenzy and it wouldn't be long that the earth was filled with violence, facing catastrophic judgment.

These couple examples really muddy the waters on what kind of God we are supposed to be following. Is it a God or a set of gods? Is it a god who loves knowledge and desires us to learn or a god who hates knowledge and prefers our ignorance? Is it a god who tells us what we've done wrong and gives us a chance or is it a god who punishes in a seemingly random fashion without warning?

Cain knew what to do, he refused. As far as the rest it's already answered.

 

[Seadish]

I have just been reading through Genesis for the first time in several years and I have a few questions.

1) Why does God switch between plural and singular throughout the first two chapters of Genesis? For example, Genesis 1:26 reads, "Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness". Notice how he refers to himself as "us" and "our". I have read before that this is an indication that early story-tellers were polytheistic and/or animist and this polytheism crept into the text and remained. This plural vs. singular issue arises in Genesis 1:26 and Genesis 3:22. As far as I know, this is the only time in the entire Bible where God speaks in the plural. It is strange that it just so happens to occur in one of the oldest stories when polytheism was more common.

2) Why does God discourage knowledge? Very early on it is the "tree of knowledge and good and evil" which is expressly prohibited (Genesis 2:16). Having "your eyes opened" is implied to be a very bad thing that God does not want. Why would God not want us to know more and learn more? Why would God want to keep us ignorant and stupid? The serpent encourages the woman to disobey God in order to learn and expand her mind (Genesis 3:4). Is this not a good encouragement? If my child came home and told me that her teacher forbid her to read a book because the teacher thought it would lead to more knowledge, I would for sure take on the role of the serpent and encourage my child to disobey her teacher. For sure.

3) Why does God punish Cain? Reading the text in Genesis 4:1-7, it is not at all clear why God rejects Cain's offering. It also seems that God did not make his expectation clear to Cain at all. Cain is surprised by the rejection. It seems so random, harsh and vindictive. "You will be accepted if you do what is right", God says. Why is bringing vegetables and food from the ground "wrong"? And why is bringing animals as a gift "right"? And, more importantly, why doesn't God make his expectations clearer?


These couple examples really muddy the waters on what kind of God we are supposed to be following. Is it a God or a set of gods? Is it a god who loves knowledge and desires us to learn or a god who hates knowledge and prefers our ignorance? Is it a god who tells us what we've done wrong and gives us a chance or is it a god who punishes in a seemingly random fashion without warning?

 

[Seadish]

These for me seem simple, so forgive me if I don't go into a huge explanation but q1 is the Trinity ,they were always there,,q2 God doesn't discourage knowledge but He this was about the knowledge of good vs evil He knew we would disobey,but can you imagine if we hadn't? Q3 He wasn't punishing him but he did know that he would not love him and the evil he would do. In my learnings anyways, hope it helps!

 

[Seadish]

These for me seem simple, so forgive me if I don't go into a huge explanation but q1 is the Trinity ,they were always there,,q2 God doesn't discourage knowledge but He this was about the knowledge of good vs evil He knew we would disobey,but can you imagine if we hadn't? Q3 He wasn't punishing him but he did know that he would not love him and the evil he would do. In my learnings anyways, hope it helps!

Oops sorry everyone already said that

 

[Sketcher]

1) Why does God switch between plural and singular throughout the first two chapters of Genesis? For example, Genesis 1:26 reads, "Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness". Notice how he refers to himself as "us" and "our". I have read before that this is an indication that early story-tellers were polytheistic and/or animist and this polytheism crept into the text and remained. This plural vs. singular issue arises in Genesis 1:26 and Genesis 3:22. As far as I know, this is the only time in the entire Bible where God speaks in the plural. It is strange that it just so happens to occur in one of the oldest stories when polytheism was more common.

There are several possible explanations.
- Have you ever, when making up your own mind, thought, "Let's do this" even though you're the only one doing it? That's a perfectly normal thing to do. God may have been doing the same.
- It is possible that some of that is reflective of the Trinity.
- The Jews, who reject the Trinity, have a tradition that says he was speaking with his angels as he was doing his creating.

2) Why does God discourage knowledge? Very early on it is the "tree of knowledge and good and evil" which is expressly prohibited (Genesis 2:16). Having "your eyes opened" is implied to be a very bad thing that God does not want. Why would God not want us to know more and learn more? Why would God want to keep us ignorant and stupid? The serpent encourages the woman to disobey God in order to learn and expand her mind (Genesis 3:4). Is this not a good encouragement? If my child came home and told me that her teacher forbid her to read a book because the teacher thought it would lead to more knowledge, I would for sure take on the role of the serpent and encourage my child to disobey her teacher. For sure.

Depends on what your child wants to learn, doesn't it? There is some knowledge that you would want to protect your child from. Knowing what it feels like to get shot, or to be abused by an adult, for instance. Other things are fine to learn, but they need a foundation built first. The knowledge that they gained, that they were naked, may have been conveyed to them later, at a proper time. What obeying God's command to not eat from that tree would have taught them is the value of faith, trusting God enough to obey him. That was the fundamental lesson that they did fail. They refused to learn the lesson in front of them, went against his command, and ate from the tree. Contrast this with Jesus in the desert:

The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.” Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’” - Matthew 4:3-4
​

Adam and Eve failed to live on what God told them. Jesus did not.

3) Why does God punish Cain? Reading the text in Genesis 4:1-7, it is not at all clear why God rejects Cain's offering. It also seems that God did not make his expectation clear to Cain at all. Cain is surprised by the rejection. It seems so random, harsh and vindictive. "You will be accepted if you do what is right", God says. Why is bringing vegetables and food from the ground "wrong"? And why is bringing animals as a gift "right"? And, more importantly, why doesn't God make his expectations clearer?

Scripture doesn't tell us everything he told them about what offerings to bring. The indication isn't that Cain's offering was rejected because it was plant-based, but rather the manner in which he gave it. Abel's sacrifice was from the best of his animals, which is why it was pleasing to the Lord. Cain apparently did not sacrifice in the way Abel did. Note that God hadn't punished him yet in Gen 4:6-7, and gave him a chance to do right. The punishment came after he murdered his brother.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Why does God switch between plural and singular throughout the first two chapters of Genesis?

In Hebrew Language (the original) and understanding there is no conflict. Only in later languages and mis-understanding.

Why does God discourage knowledge?

See above. Even in Scripture, man messes up all the time.
Man's so-called 'knowledge' LEADS AWAY FROM TRUTH/ keeps people from finding Yahweh's Kingdom. Thus Yahweh mocks it, calls it evil and wicked and pernicious.

Why does God punish Cain?

Yahweh does whatever He Pleases .

Also, see in the New Testament - I think He explains there.

 

[Not David]

I just waiting for someone to come and say that Genesis was written in 500 BC and that the author changed between El and other gods.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I just waiting for someone to come and say that Genesis was written in 500 BC and that the author changed between El and other gods.

In one Bible with Genesis I have, it says "Printed in 1987".....

That was only 32 or so years ago.

Sadly, as I understand it, Yahweh's and Yahshua's Name was in the Original Scriptures, over 1000 times, OT and NT ,
and was edited out.

Now, supposedly, a bunch of 'different' names can be found in spurious translations .... nothing close to the Original Scriptures.

 

[Not David]

In one Bible with Genesis I have, it says "Printed in 1987".....

That was only 32 or so years ago.

Sadly, as I understand it, Yahweh's and Yahshua's Name was in the Original Scriptures, over 1000 times, OT and NT ,
and was edited out.

Now, supposedly, a bunch of 'different' names can be found in spurious translations .... nothing close to the Original Scriptures.

Actually in the New Testament, Jesus is referred as "Ieasus" and God as "Theos" or "Kyrios" since it was written in Greek

 

[A_Thinker]

2) Why does God discourage knowledge? Very early on it is the "tree of knowledge and good and evil" which is expressly prohibited (Genesis 2:16). Having "your eyes opened" is implied to be a very bad thing that God does not want. Why would God not want us to know more and learn more? Why would God want to keep us ignorant and stupid? The serpent encourages the woman to disobey God in order to learn and expand her mind (Genesis 3:4).

The knowledge offered was that of GOOD and EVIL. To this point, Adam and Eve had only experienced GOOD. Because the woman/man chose to eat the fruit, they came to know EVIL. To the point where they experienced one son killing their other son.

3) Why does God punish Cain? Reading the text in Genesis 4:1-7, it is not at all clear why God rejects Cain's offering. It also seems that God did not make his expectation clear to Cain at all. Cain is surprised by the rejection. It seems so random, harsh and vindictive. "You will be accepted if you do what is right"

In the discussion between God and Cain, it appears that Cain knows what God desires from him. God certainly told Cain that he was headed toward evil ... in his evil intentions toward his brother.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I just waiting for someone to come and say that Genesis was written in 500 BC and that the author changed between El and other gods.

More specifically, David, some scholars posit that it is the 1st chapter of Genesis which was written in 500 BC during the time of the Exile in Babylon, and then it was essentially "added" to the already existing Genesis texts or collected writings that would become Genesis. This is the thesis given by Christian scholar, Kenton L. Sparks (2007). But, who knows for sure?

Reference

Sparks, Kenton L. "" Enūma Elish" and Priestly Mimesis: Elite Emulation in Nascent Judaism." Journal of Biblical Literature 126, no. 4 (2007): 625-648.