Problem with Modern Worship

I think there could be an argument to say that a lot of songs in the past have just been saying the same things over the years (which isn't always bad) but, it's good to say something that is an age old truth in a new fresh and maybe personal way.

It's too easy to write a 'nice' song full of Christian 'isms'. I personally think that when people bear their souls in everyday life or in song other people appreciate it. They appreciate honesty, that's why the book of Psalms is so awesome. Some are quite 'self centred' but honest. People need to know that there are other 'real' people ot there who aren't always 'walking on clouds' so to speak. That's why Jesus became flesh wasn't it, to prove that He could relate, to walk the walk and be tempted in all areas. To weep for city's and people.

I'm new but thought I'd add my two cents...

If it's been said I'm sorry, but I always like to shed perspective on highly focused conversations.

We throw worship around as if it primarily means music and song. Biblically worship has less to do with music than anything else. True singing and music can be an form of worship but, as a worship leader myself, I always remind my teams that modern corporate worship is probably the smallest form of worship. God desires our obedience rather than our lip service. I love music because I'm a musician/singer/songwriter but I'm always reminded that without my obedience and devotion to the One I'm singing to it doesn't matter. Sing a hymn, sing a superficial shiny happy Jesus song, doesn't matter. God sees your heart. I can sing the words "I love you Jesus" over and over and over. If my heart is correctly directed (god-centered) then it means more than me showing up and singing the most doctrine-filled hymn in the world without the heart behind it.

Does modern music have the depth of the older (ancient) hymns? No. Scriptural maybe, but no where near the same level of thought. The song 'In Christ alone' is a newer song that is very reminicient of older hymns. I bet it took the songwriter forever to accomplish that feat. But then again I could lead that song at my church and totally miss the mark if I'm more concerned with the Luke-show than the glorifyingGod-Show.

I guess what I'm saying is that 'back in the day' of more devout sounding music they had their own share of problems. People struggled with their piety and own versions of self-righteousness when singing the songs. Sure the words were very thought provoking but I'm sure many felt that because they were singing them that their heart was a secondary matter. That they thought they were 'good' because of the lyrics.

Ultimately it all comes back to the heart. I hope my sharing doesn't upset anyone because of my newness. Thanks for havin' me.

Lucaso's post led me to a random thought ... this is just me thinking out loud ... and I haven't thought about this until just now, so the thinking is not well-developed. Have mercy!

What if modern, industrialized, western man (which doesn't include everyone in the world) has gotten so wound up in technology, speed, information, busyness ... that he has made deep thinking a rarity? I'm including Christians. What if the "deep thinkers" of our times are simply withdrawing from modern life and doing what people used to do more of -- sitting and thinking.

Out of that possibility arises a (possible) logical conclusion that God could be leading Christians (who live within this context) to "come back to the basics," and so simpler--but theologically correct lyrics--are the mainstay of many churches. It could follow that in a God-determined expanse of time, Christians (living within this context) would be ready to move to deeper lyrics, and He would bring us to a deeper level of thought in worship.

Just an idea.

I do believe that deep, Christian worship songs are being written still today. And I don't believe that all ancient hymns are deep and theologically sound (not that anyone here said that). I'm so grateful for my worship-leader friends and what their hearts produce for His glory. Maybe they are not typical, but they are profound, and they point me beyond the song to one worthy of all worship, on all levels.

Worship to me is like how should I say our way of expressing ourselfs to God. I honostly believe that God is moving today in the new areas music (comtepary). I know that in our church we believe that God gave us the talent to give him the glory. We practice and all that so in the end God and not Man will recieve the glory.

TAKE OUR CHILDREN BACK

The loud music is great if you like loud music I think we all need to take a look at your own place of worship to see if there needs to be 2 services one for the quiet crowd and one for the younger and of coarse the teens I am 53 the loud music is better for me
I am sure some people my age would not agree .We need to reach the young yes with the baggie pants falling down the wild colors in their hair etc be teachers and help them to know jesus first

I think it's good for the oldies to hear what the youngsters are saying in thier songs. It's also good for the youngsters to be reminded of the old songs that are part of our Christian heratige. Especialy the old hymns. Amazing Grace, Crown Him With Many Crowns, Bread Of Heaven, millions more.

Tavita said:

This is why I miss the scripture 'choruses' we used to sing many years ago, you know, the 'Songs of Praise'.

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Hi there Tavita

I know what you mean.

I found an amateur group that were singing some songs like this, quite a mixed bag actually.

They have a basic website here: http://www.geocities.com/movinghandmusic/movinghand.html

I asked them for a CD, they do it for donations it was good for an amateur group and some of the songs were very anointed

Hope this helps

Lis

Anything from God (commonly VIA someone in a relationship with Him) is
gobily goo ! ...... that's if your not 'hearing and seeing'.
our friend the HS makes alive, scripture whether it be in a song or the bible and definately OTHER things inspired by Him, it's Truth.
I find some songs sounding like two or three other songs just wacked together and called 'new worship music'.
But in response to that I've found and reasoned that when in the presence of God praise is forever on your lips,
i mean the HS is in you, fruits of the spirit, namely joy, (not excluding the others)

-and that communication between our spirit and Gods Spirit just 'sings'- realising this i see how songs CAN simply be wacked together and used as praise music,
( emphasising 'freedom in Christ' not recklessness of intelectual grace )

I do fully agree it's where your heart is... my friend wrote a song about it oh boy it makes you SO weak and SO strong at the same time, it is DRENCHED in the truth of our HOLY GOD. audibly moving too!

But yeh i still have to censor the songs, for my own spiritual health, your gut knows...
God knows!
byebye

Hey,

I heard someone put it a good way. "Why should the Devil have all the good music?!" Made me think. I love modern worship - I can get into it and feel God's presence. But I agree it's not for some. We're not there to care what the lyrics are, we're there to worship God.. as long as it comes from the Heart, it's what matters! I definately, again agree modern worship isn't for some.. but that's why we have all these new churches, while still having traditional ones. No doubt in another 50 years, the worship songs will change yet again - Christianity is for us all, not for a group of people with a specific taste in music or color of clothing.

I don't think there's a right or a wrong way to worship God, as long as it's with the heart.. whether on your back, feet or even on your head - whether yelling, whether being silent.. as long as it's from the heart

Matt

Sometimes I miss the whole point of this discussion. As a worship leader and pastor (I preach too) I hear this discussion a whole lot and if I am honest, it wearies me.

Some people seem to be focusing on the music. We should all be able to admit that we have different musical tastes. Some people simply prefer the 'hym' style of music and their preference doesn't have anything to do with the words. At the heart of it, some people just like that style of music.

Other people like modern music and their preference is (again) just for the musical style. Words are 'secondary.'

The real discussion that needs to happen is (as someone began to say earlier) whether or not our worship honors God and is true. There are songs that do not honor God - listen to them on the radio. There are songs whose lyrics simply are not true. I cannot think of any examples since I promptly file these songs in the round receptacle next to my desk.

I really think anyone would be hard-pressed to find songs, modern or traditional, that genuinely damage the 'worship' of a church. To try to debate preferences is silly. We will all have different preferences for our entire lives and it is arrogance to think God somehow blesses *my* preference more than anyone else's.

Personally, I think what is required is a greater understanding, within the church, of what our responsibility and activity is during worship. Are we merely singing lyrics or should these lyrics evoke some sort of response in us? I think it is the latter. How else could David have written (in the PSALMS) about God dashing the heads of the babies of his enemies? Remember, that was a 'worship' moment for David.

Worship is about relationship. I often find myself thinking about specific things while I am worshipping. For instance, this past Sunday my church was singing "Trading My Sorrows" and as I sang these repetitive, simple lyrics over and over again my brain was remembering the difficulties I had this week and how I had wanted to say "no" to God and my heart was saying "Yes" to God the whole time. I was, in my mind, responding to God through the music. To me, that is what congregational worship is all about. The songs are only a medium through which the congregation can, together and as individuals, respond to God. Sometimes we need to respond to what God has done, to who God is, to who we are, to what we need and the list could go on.

The church needs a wakeup call! Too often we avoid facing hard truth because our ears itch for the status quo...

Well said!! Yeah, I think it doesn't matter about the lyrics or the music style, it is only honestly praising God that is important.

I think that, these days, many people connect being emotionally moved by music as being moved by the spirit, but these are not the same. Real worship happens when your spirit responds to God not to some musical tone. In fact some sentimental, introspective songs can hinder worship because they take the spotlight off God and instead we focus on our own feelings. Your biggest distraction in worship is yourself - your interests and your worries over what others think about you.

Memo said:

Well said!! Yeah, I think it doesn't matter about the lyrics or the music style, it is only honestly praising God that is important.

I think that, these days, many people connect being emotionally moved by music as being moved by the spirit, but these are not the same. Real worship happens when your spirit responds to God not to some musical tone. In fact some sentimental, introspective songs can hinder worship because they take the spotlight off God and instead we focus on our own feelings. Your biggest distraction in worship is yourself - your interests and your worries over what others think about you.

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i understand what a lot of people are saying about the "self centered" words on these songs. however, i differ on my opinion because i believe that many of these songs that are "do" not so much that the writers are thinking " me me me" but we are in a day and age where God wants his people to cry out for his presents, for his provision, and doing it in song is a great way to get everyone to do it usually.

as far as the love songs are concerned i love those because they can be generalized with christians worldwide. you wouldnt believe how many times i have teared up because of them. i find that sometimes i am able to express my Jesus what my heart is feeling through that song what i was not able to put into words.