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Romans 2:11 is speaking of God being no respecter of persons when it comes to judgment. When we are adopted as children as we see later in Romans I think it is clear He lavishes love on the elect according to His will.Calvinist "election" -- is little more than "arbitrary selection" of the "few" in Matthew 7 over the "many".
but in Romans 2:11 we find "God is NOT partial" -- which is the opposite of Calvinist "election" because in Calvinist "election" there is not supposed to be one scintilla of difference between a lost person that is elect to become saved... and a lost person who is not.
Too late here.I don't see that in Scripture. We will only do that which is in our nature to do. Where does our nature come from?
Free will is an illusion of autonomy. We are not our own. We are either slaves to sin (free in sin; "choose today whom you will serve <insertPaganIdol>) or slaves to righteousness (free in Christ).
It makes Him completely trustworthy. A god of free will would allow his children to run into traffic so that he dare not impose on their liberties. The God of the Bible always protects those whom He loves (1 Cor 13)
Seems like sandy ground, but believe as your heart ables you.
God made Hilter in His image...I'm not sure why you point that out. We are to Love Him with our whole hearts and being, and this is the purpose of rebirth (John 3), that we may be in Christ and Christ in us.
Romans 9:22-23
This sounds like I won't be replying to you anymore.That sounds like a lot of choosing.
This is too funny.
Are you sure you understand what you believe in???
And because something is written somewhere does not make it correct.
Could you post some writings that would support the Westminster Confession of Faith? Not the bible, since the bible does not teach reformed theology.
Are you aware that predestination did not exist before 1,500 AD except for one theologian back in the year 400 AD.
Why do you think those that came immediately after the Apostles didn't pick up on this idea?
And eternal security, or the preservation of the saints wasn't even thought of till 1,500 AD. Were the earlier theologians fast asleep?
I understand exactly what I believe.This is too funny.
Are you sure you understand what you believe in???
And because something is written somewhere does not make it correct.
Could you post some writings that would support the Westminster Confession of Faith? Not the bible, since the bible does not teach reformed theology.
What on earth are you talking about?Are you aware that predestination did not exist before 1,500 AD except for one theologian back in the year 400 AD.Why do you think those that came immediately after the Apostles didn't pick up on this idea?
Jesus was not asleep when He said, "Truly, truly, I say to you, He that hears my word, and believes on him that sent me, has everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death to life." John 5:24And eternal security, or the preservation of the saints wasn't even thought of till 1,500 AD. Were the earlier theologians fast asleep?
You asked: “Could you show me one verse that states Jesus died only for a select few?”Who cares what Arminius said?
This is one of the problems of calvinism. Too much attention on what Pelagius said, what Augustine said, whaat Arminius said.
Could we just concentrate on the bible please?
1. Jesus did NOT fail His goal.
Again: John 3:16
"For God So Loved the WORLD (everybody) that He gave His only begotten Son....that WHOSOVERE BELIEVETH in HIM, should not perish but have everlasting life."
That looks like number 2 to me.
Of course someone has to BELIEVE in Jesus to be saved....
Simple English!
Here are some verses for you.
John 1:29
Behold the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the WORLD.
Romans 3:23-26
23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; 25whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; 26for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
We have all sinned, and those who have faith in Jesus will be justified by His blood.
Romans 5:17-19
17For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.
18So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men. 19For as through the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.
As in Adam we all fell from grace, in Jesus, our relationship with God has been restored, by grace through our faith in Jesus.
Ephesians 2:8
Could you show me one verse that states Jesus died only for a select few?
Maybe because THEY are so dumb and only calvinists are smart. After all, they're able to accept a god that no one else can accept due to their superior intelligence.
That's the problem.I'm a chatterbox.
Election is the unchangeable purpose of God, whereby, before the foundation of the world, He has out of mere grace, according to the sovereign good pleasure of His own will, chosen from the whole human race, which had fallen through their own fault from the primitive state of rectitude into sin and destruction, and redeemed in Christ, whom He from eternity appointed the Mediator and Head of the elect and the foundation of salvation. This elect church, though by nature neither better nor more deserving than others, but with them involved in one common misery, God has decreed to give to Christ to be saved by Him, and effectually to call and draw them to His communion by His Word and Spirit; to bestow upon them true faith, justification, and sanctification; and having powerfully preserved them in the fellowship of His son, finally to glorify them for the demonstration of His mercy, and for the praise of the riches of His glorious grace; as it is written "For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will--to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves." (Eph 1:4-6). And elsewhere: "And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified." (Rom 8:30).
Canons of Dort (1.7)
How does it not change God's nature if HE decides who is saved and who is not?
I thought God is an all good God...How does an all-good God send people to hell through no fault of their own?
That's not the Biblical doctrine of Election, it's the Reformers
he's got plenty of vids, lots to learn... i'm excited to learn that you will be learningI will watch the videos.
You asked: “Could you show me one verse that states Jesus died only for a select few?”
Answer: Easily. The most familiar NT quote is John 3:16-- Jesus died for whoever would believe in Him. It does not say how many or how few, but it would require belief. Billions have not believed.
In Matthew 7:13–14, Jesus did say, "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." The condition of salvation, the way, is faith in Jesus Christ. And ”faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of Christ” and Jesus said that His sheep would hear Him.
The Reformers are the ones who went back to the scriptures themselves for their doctrines, rather than accept the corruptions that had occurred due to valuing human ecclesiastic traditions over the scriptures.
Election is the unchangeable purpose of God, whereby, before the foundation of the world, He has out of mere grace, according to the sovereign good pleasure of His own will, chosen from the whole human race, which had fallen through their own fault from the primitive state of rectitude into sin and destruction, and redeemed in Christ, whom He from eternity appointed the Mediator and Head of the elect and the foundation of salvation. This elect church, though by nature neither better nor more deserving than others, but with them involved in one common misery, God has decreed to give to Christ to be saved by Him, and effectually to call and draw them to His communion by His Word and Spirit; to bestow upon them true faith, justification, and sanctification; and having powerfully preserved them in the fellowship of His son, finally to glorify them for the demonstration of His mercy, and for the praise of the riches of His glorious grace; as it is written "For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will--to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves." (Eph 1:4-6). And elsewhere: "And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified." (Rom 8:30).
Canons of Dort (1.7)
oh hon, that's not the way it is at all... God IS all good, and He's not sliding people into hell...How does it not change God's nature if HE decides who is saved and who is not?
I thought God is an all good God...How does an all-good God send people to hell through no fault of their own?
Actually, John 3:16 doesn't say Christ died for only some. It says,
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (Jn. 3:16 KJV)
He gave His Son "THAT" whosoever believes should not perish. This verse doesn't limit Christ's death to only those who believe. Let me give you an example. "I rented the movie theater that whosoever wants to see the film, can." Have rented the theater only for a certain few or for everyone? I've rented the theater. I belongs to me for that time. Anyone who wants to see the film, can. Just because one chooses not to doesn't mean I haven't rented the theater for them. Likewise God gave His some, that whosoever believes should not perish. That some do doesn't mean Christ didn't die for them too.
I agree they did rid themselves of some error, however, they didn't go back to Biblical teaching. They went back to Augustine.
I agree that Christ died for all (redemption), potentially saving all. However, not all (nor even perhaps a majority) will accept that redemption and be saved. While the terms are often used interchangeabley, "redemption" and "salvation" are distinct terms with different meanings.
Redemption: Our Lord "gave himself as a ransom for all." There is a universality for what Christ accomplished on the Cross. This is what "redemption" means. And because Christ was resurrected, all will be resurrected. Death will die. But there are two resurrections indicated in the scriptures, one for the saved and one for the damned , see summary at What is the first resurrection? What is the second resurrection?).
Salvation, however, requires accepting that redemption. None who reject it can be saved. There is coming a time (the Day of Lord) when God, in essence, says “Time’s up!” He is not going to allow sin to forever exist, not in His Creation and certainly not in His Kingdom. But some people are children of the devil and not children of God, they are not lost sheep, they are goats. And you cannot turn a goat into a sheep, even if they bleat similarly.
To summarize: All are redeemed by the sacrifice of Christ and by His resurrection and all will be resurrected. However, salvation into the Kingdom of God requires fully accepting this redemption (admitting they are sinners in need of it). None who reject this redemption (refusing to repent and trust in Christ) can be truly saved into the heavenly Kingdom of God.
- “Children of the Devil” -- Goats and wolves in sheep’s clothing as opposed to God’s sheep (both lost and found) – these references are to people, not just nations.
- Jesus: John 8:42-44, Matthew 13:37-42, John 6:70
- John: 1 John 3:10
- Paul: Acts 13:10
Due to their study of the scriptures, they just happened to agree with much of Augustine, who was the most biblical of the church fathers of his time.
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