• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Clizby WampusCat

Well-Known Member
Jul 8, 2019
3,657
893
56
Texas
✟124,923.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
It tkes an extremely strong commitment every second for as long as the torture is endured.
You seriously believe being tortured for about 7 hours is worse than a Vietnam POW being tortured for years in a prison not knowing if they are going to die or not just because Jesus is dying for bad people all the while knowing he won’t die and will rule the universe forever?

I would also like to add that the torture I will receive from Jesus after I die will be much worse because I cannot stop it and I know it will go on forever.
 
Last edited:
Reactions: Larniavc
Upvote 0

Clizby WampusCat

Well-Known Member
Jul 8, 2019
3,657
893
56
Texas
✟124,923.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
No, time is a property of this universe. It does not appear so it has been demonstrated to be so.

This is all just assertion. Show me it is possible to be outside of time.
 
Upvote 0

Larniavc

"Encourage him to keep talking. He's hilarious."
Jul 14, 2015
14,748
9,007
52
✟385,654.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
UK-Liberal-Democrats
That’s a significant amount of assertions. Can you support that with evidence?
 
Upvote 0

Par5

Well-Known Member
Nov 5, 2017
1,013
653
79
LONDONDERRY
✟69,175.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
That is the same God just working from heaven instead of on earth with us. We need Him really close.
I thought Christians believed that their god is everywhere, omnipresent.
How close do you want?
 
Upvote 0

bling

Regular Member
Site Supporter
Feb 27, 2008
16,815
1,923
✟990,436.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Yes, because the Vietnam POW cannot leave at any time, he is not saying no every second.
BUT, even if there are worse experiences like what some might experience before annihilation in hell, Jesus is not taking the "punishment" a person receives for sinning and refusing to accept God forgiveness, but Jesus is experiencing the discipline of a forgiven child since that is what a child needs along with forgiveness. The Christian is being empathetically crucified with Christ as his discipline for sinning and not his punishment for sinning.
 
Upvote 0

bling

Regular Member
Site Supporter
Feb 27, 2008
16,815
1,923
✟990,436.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
No, time is a property of this universe. It does not appear so it has been demonstrated to be so.

This is all just assertion. Show me it is possible to be outside of time.
We do not know much about the Spiritual universe. Even in the universe science exists in does not rule out the existence of worm holes.
 
Upvote 0

bling

Regular Member
Site Supporter
Feb 27, 2008
16,815
1,923
✟990,436.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
That’s a significant amount of assertions. Can you support that with evidence?
I am giving an alternative way it “could” work and humans still be able to make some autonomous free will choices and still be consistent with the rest of scripture.
 
Upvote 0

Larniavc

"Encourage him to keep talking. He's hilarious."
Jul 14, 2015
14,748
9,007
52
✟385,654.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
UK-Liberal-Democrats
I am giving an alternative way it “could” work and humans still be able to make some autonomous free will choices and still be consistent with the rest of scripture.
No offence but that means you can’t.
 
Upvote 0

Clizby WampusCat

Well-Known Member
Jul 8, 2019
3,657
893
56
Texas
✟124,923.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
We do not know much about the Spiritual universe. Even in the universe science exists in does not rule out the existence of worm holes.
What is the spiritual universe? How do you know it exists?
 
Upvote 0

Clizby WampusCat

Well-Known Member
Jul 8, 2019
3,657
893
56
Texas
✟124,923.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Yes, because the Vietnam POW cannot leave at any time, he is not saying no every second.
That makes it worse not better.
Well, that is your theology, other Christians disagree with you.
 
Upvote 0

bling

Regular Member
Site Supporter
Feb 27, 2008
16,815
1,923
✟990,436.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
But that’s a supposition. Do you have any evidence to support it?
You presented the idea: God can’t ever have that kind of relationship with a human. Any given human was created by God. And God knows every thought and deed that person will ever have and commit at every point in time.

Accordingly, from the perspective of someone who knows what we will think and do before we are aware of it our selves we ARE indistinguishable from preprogrammed robots.
I was just showing how God can be all knowing and humans could still have free will.
 
Upvote 0

Larniavc

"Encourage him to keep talking. He's hilarious."
Jul 14, 2015
14,748
9,007
52
✟385,654.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
UK-Liberal-Democrats
No, I get that God can be all knowing but humans still have free will.

But from God’s point of view we are simply automatons behaving and reacting in a way that can never surprise him because he already knows what you will do because from his perspective it has already happened millions of times.
 
Upvote 0