Pro-Life Protesting Behavior

[Angel4Truth]

So tell me lynn, if a man beats his very pregnant wife (7 months) and the "fetus" dies, should it be counted against him for that life or is it still a hunk of flesh but not a baby because it wasnt breathing?

What if a young 22 week pregnant mother gets hit by a drunk driver, should he be charged with that life - what if the mother couldnt have any more children after that because of the accident, would that make a difference either?

 

[Texas Lynn]

So... please describe for me exactly what it is that you do believe is occuring during an abortion. What does the procedure do..? If the focus of the procedure isn't a life, what is it? You never did counter my statement about the life processes... the heartbeat, breathing, etc, not to mention the bodily shape itself... arms, legs, head...

If it isn't a life, a human life, what is it, exactly? And no quoting of cleanly defining medical terms... I want your opinion.

Abortion is the termination of a pregnancy. As to what you "want" you may have to be satisfied with what you get.

 

[Texas Lynn]

Yes I am but Viability keeps getting earlier and ealier, in one case 22 weeks. The question is how much medical care do you want to give the birth child.

Ah, then abortion opponents might support socialized medicine if it advances their agenda? That's worth exploring.

Also the question is are you willing to ban after viability abortion... so far I get the impression your ok with abortion up to a second before birth.

Whether anyone is "ok" or not with abortion is irrelevant. It's a matter for women and doctors to decide, not busybodies.

 

[Texas Lynn]

As long as its within the woman's body, she has the right to do whatever she likes. Sorry that you get tired of hearing it...but it's true.

You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Electric Skeptic again.

 

[CCGirl]

There is simply no excuse for any country to have special laws for one medical procedure that is clearly a decision by a woman and her doctor. Period.

 

[Texas Lynn]

It is not true! It may be in the womans body, but it is not part of the woman!

Perhaps so but that's an irrelevancy.

Without the right to control one's own body all other rights are meaningless.

 

[Texas Lynn]

Thats right, its only a person when its wanted. Its only a person inside the mother if its killed by a drunk driver for example - but if the mother doesnt want it, its not a person anymore.

Oh and if the mother delivers prematurely say at 20 weeks and the "fetus" survives then its a baby and if the mother kills it, she goes to prison for murder. But -

if she aborts it before it can be born at 20 weeks- shes a champion of human rights electing to excercise her right to choose. Not sure why some cannot see this double standard in action.

You've failed to show a double standard exists.

A double standard is things like: voting for a candidate who says he's "pro-life" because he's again abortion but who votes to cut school lunch programs.

 

[Texas Lynn]

So tell me lynn, if a man beats his very pregnant wife (7 months) and the "fetus" dies, should it be counted against him for that life or is it still a hunk of flesh but not a baby because it wasnt breathing?

What if a young 22 week pregnant mother gets hit by a drunk driver, should he be charged with that life - what if the mother couldnt have any more children after that because of the accident, would that make a difference either?

Personally I'm against the laws attempting to suggest such things are equivalent to murder, but some states etc. see otherwise. The Biblical passage that states if men fighting inadvertedly assault a pregnant woman in the melee and cause her to spontaneously abort they are guilty of assault but not murder and such has been tradition since Hammurabi.

 

[Angel4Truth]

So that would mean no you dont think they should be considered to have taken a life? You seem to have sidestepped the questions.

 

[kevin36]

I don't consider it "hiding". I consider the legal defitions here of paramount importance. I believe the current defintion, that a fetus is not a person, is correct.



This sentence ought to be in the dictionary where "baiting" is defined. My, my, would you look at that! Marvelous. I never said any such thing, and I dispute your premise. "God's Law" is entirely silent on the matter of abortion. A fetus is not specifically an "unborn child" any more than a sperm is, but keep that quiet because the antiabort people are going to want to outlaw masturbation, too, if they see that, and a considerable number of them do already.



Birth.

Why do you think we measure our age from our birthdays? Because we're not people previously, that's why. For millions of years this has been the measure of humankind and now because it offers an opportunity to oppress women some want to change that paradigm. Not gonna happen.

I appologize that you feel I was baiting you- I simply sought clarity. As I wrote before, I have already been called on that before, and will try in the future to not be so... baiting.

Like I told another, while I disagree with you, thank you for making clear exactly what you consider the specifics to be.

Also, I believe that many oriental cultures DO celebrate from conception, and not from birth.

I believe society's legal defination to not be the most paramount in importance, so we'll have to disagree on that.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

A fetus is not specifically an "unborn child" any more than a sperm is, but keep that quiet because the antiabort people are going to want to outlaw masturbation, too

But what will be REALLY frightening is when they decide that a woman's period is murdering an unborn child... which will logically result in all women being legally required to be continuously pregnant from menarch'e to menopause

 

[Texas Lynn]

So that would mean no you dont think they should be considered to have taken a life? You seem to have sidestepped the questions.

Absolutely.

It seems to me I answered the questions appropriately.

 

[Texas Lynn]

I appologize that you feel I was baiting you- I simply sought clarity. As I wrote before, I have already been called on that before, and will try in the future to not be so... baiting.

Like I told another, while I disagree with you, thank you for making clear exactly what you consider the specifics to be...I believe society's legal defination to not be the most paramount in importance, so we'll have to disagree on that.

Okay, no problem.

Also, I believe that many oriental cultures DO celebrate from conception, and not from birth.

There's a lot of variance in "oriental" cultures, so that couldn't be conclusive for much of anything. Perhaps my rhetoric about our "birth"days is therefore similarly debunked also, then. I just did a search on "abortion Japan" and learned (I had heard before but forgotten) how abortion is widespread in Japan. We know of China's "one child" policy and how neighborhood councils coerce people to obtain abortions. One would suspect given the poverty in North Korea similar policies exist there.

If your assertion is true it would be my impression such is prominent only among middle class and above. That gives rise to the discussion of the validity of the antiabort position versus the seamless prolife position (antiabortion, antieuthenasia, anti-capital punishment, antiwar, antipoverty, prohealthcare, pronutrition, proeducation, etc., which the American antiabortion groups are most assuredly not).

 

[kevin36]

But what will be REALLY frightening is when they decide that a woman's period is murdering an unborn child... which will logically result in all women being legally required to be continuously pregnant from menarch'e to menopause

But a period is the body getting ready to support the child, not the child itself. Besides that, it is also a normal function of the body, as would be loosing the baby without outside influence. Actively commiting an act to remove the baby (or whatever term you feel the need to use), however, is a differant matter, and the one we're arguing.

 

[serephim02]

Both sides, christian, athiest, prolife, prochoice all have their douches and the OP just encountered the christian ones.

I have encountered athiest douches as well, the only thing you can do is let brush off your shoulder. They were wrong in the way they handled it and these are the same people that bomb these very clinics.

I however am prolife, but thats not the point of the thread, the point is everyside has there jerks and nice people. God Bless

 

[kevin36]

Very correct.

The original post was about how a woman was treated when she went into a clinic, and I think that just about everybody (including me) agreed that her treatment was not appropriate... and then we got into discussion about what happens within clinics of the sort she was entering.

Both sides can certainly argue their positions, and both sides certainly make mistakes in the process. Not to discount those mistakes, just to say that they're made. I know I made mine here...