Pro-Fetal Life

[Archivist]

There are some on CF who say that abortion should not be permitted even to save the life of the pregnant woman. These people call themselves "pro-life," yet that support a position that would likely result in the death of one of the parties involved, namely the pregnant woman.

How can they claim to be pro-life if they support such a position? They are, at best, pro-fetal life.

Please don't argue that this only affects a small number of abortions. That isn't the point of this thread.

 

[HTacianas]

I don't know that they could be called pro fetal life either. Usually at the point an abortion is required to save the life of the mother the child is going to die anyway.

 

[Dave L]

I always thought it is better to save one life if both will die anyway. In this case it is not abortion but a surgical procedure to save a life. And I'm pro-life.

 

[SkyWriting]

There are some on CF who say that abortion should not be permitted even to save the life of the pregnant woman. These people call themselves "pro-life," yet that support a position that would likely result in the death of one of the parties involved, namely the pregnant woman.

How can they claim to be pro-life if they support such a position? They are, at best, pro-fetal life.

Please don't argue that this only affects a small number of abortions. That isn't the point of this thread.

They often say it's better to save the life of the innocent becasue they did nothing to cause the pregnancy. The woman will just have to stew in her pot and take the risk to herself.

 

[Dave L]

They often say it's better to save the life of the innocent becasue they did nothing to cause the pregnancy. The woman will just have to stew in her pot and take the risk to herself.

That's OK. But calling it from your armchair is much different than being in the situation. Two dead VS one dead with surgery. Plus, if you believe in "age of accountability" baby has nothing to lose and ony much to gain.

 

[SkyWriting]

That's OK. But calling it from your armchair is much different than being in the situation. Two dead VS one dead with surgery. Plus, if you believe in "age of accountability" baby has nothing to lose and ony much to gain.

I've been in the room but not on the operating table.

 

[RaymondG]

I find it quite agreeable that one who vehemently advocate against abortion(for others as well as themselves), would do so even if the life of the mother and/or child is at risk. If all life is life, even without breathe, how can you justified killing one to save the other? Each should have equal chance to live without the intervention of the doctor or thoughts of the mother. Any other way would seem a bit hypocritical.

 

[Hank77]

I find it quite agreeable that one who vehemently advocate against abortion(for others as well as themselves), would do so even if the life of the mother and/or child is at risk. If all life is life, even without breathe, how can you justified killing one to save the other? Each should have equal chance to live without the intervention of the doctor or thoughts of the mother. Any other way would seem a bit hypocritical.

Choices are frequently made about who will live and who will die. Do you understand the process of medical triage?

 

[RaymondG]

Choices are frequently made about who will live and who will die. Do you understand the process of medical triage?

Dont understand what you are responding to, or what you would like for me to respond to here. If you are just trying to argue or make me feel anything by reading your words......you are wasting your time.

 

[Dan1988]

There are some on CF who say that abortion should not be permitted even to save the life of the pregnant woman. These people call themselves "pro-life," yet that support a position that would likely result in the death of one of the parties involved, namely the pregnant woman.

How can they claim to be pro-life if they support such a position? They are, at best, pro-fetal life.

Please don't argue that this only affects a small number of abortions. That isn't the point of this thread.

If I have understood your position correctly, you are "pro life" but you do support "pro choice" in extreme circumstances as in the above case.

 

[Hank77]

Dont understand what you are responding to, or what you would like for me to respond to here. If you are just trying to argue or make me feel anything by reading your words......you are wasting your time.

Feel anything?
I clearly explained why I was asking a simple question. Usually when someone makes a comment in a thread it is because they are willing to discuss the topic. I see now that you are not.
God Bless

 

[RaymondG]

Feel anything?
I clearly explained why I was asking a simple question. Usually when someone makes a comment in a thread it is because they are willing to discuss the topic. I see now that you are not.
God Bless

You asked me if I understood medical triage....when I made no mention of doctors, hospitals or anything medicinal. I only spoke of the thought process and opinion of those who are against abortion/pro-life.

I am willing to discuss the nature of doctors and medicine and hospitals, but know that this is a new topic and unrelated to what I posted and possibly the OP as well.

 

[Hank77]

You asked me if I understood medical triage....when I made no mention of doctors, hospitals or anything medicinal. I only spoke of the thought process and opinion of those who are against abortion/pro-life.

I am willing to discuss the nature of doctors and medicine and hospitals, but know that this is a new topic and unrelated to what I posted and possibly the OP as well.

Maybe I misunderstood you but this comment is what made me think of choices being made about who will live and who will die, decisions made by doctors and other medical staff and in the case of abortions usually the parents. I never have heard pro-life advocates objecting to medical triage.

I find it quite agreeable that one who vehemently advocate against abortion(for others as well as themselves), would do so even if the life of the mother and/or child is at risk. If all life is life, even without breathe, how can you justified killing one to save the other? Each should have equal chance to live without the intervention of the doctor or thoughts of the mother. Any other way would seem a bit hypocritical.

 

[RaymondG]

Maybe I misunderstood you but this comment is what made me think of choices being made about who will live and who will die, decisions made by doctors and other medical staff and in the case of abortions usually the parents. I never have heard pro-life advocates objecting to medical triage.

No, Im only talking about in the mind of the one against abortion. If one deems it wrong....and calls those murderers who commit this act.....It seems that they should feel the same, even if there are "good reasons" to commit the act.

Im speaking in general. I, myself am not for or against it....and I choose not the judge no matter what decision others choose to make.

 

[Dave L]

I've been in the room but not on the operating table.

Why place grieving mothers on a guilt trip for not dying along with the baby who would die anyway?

 

[SPF]

There are some on CF who say that abortion should not be permitted even to save the life of the pregnant woman. These people call themselves "pro-life," yet that support a position that would likely result in the death of one of the parties involved, namely the pregnant woman.

How can they claim to be pro-life if they support such a position? They are, at best, pro-fetal life.

Please don't argue that this only affects a small number of abortions. That isn't the point of this thread.

I would assume that these people would be reading this thread. Would any of you like to comment? I personally haven't seen anyone holding this position on CF. Would be interested in hearing.

I choose not the judge no matter what decision others choose to make.

Our of curiosity, is this position only pertaining to abortion, or do you hold this view about everyone's actions, no matter what they are? Do you not judge anything anyone does ever, as wrong?

 

[RaymondG]

Our of curiosity, is this position only pertaining to abortion, or do you hold this view about everyone's actions, no matter what they are? Do you not judge anything anyone does ever, as wrong?

Yes, I try not the eat the fruit period......not just this situation. It is easy enough to not condemn outwardly/verbally. Im getting better at it day by day, inwardly as well.....and the judgement of the heart, is what God sees/hears and reacts to.

It does one little good have negative judgement about anything......but if one must judge....it should be righteous.....e.g. think Good of the situation....be happy for someone else etc..

When I judge, I am immediately judged....so i avoid it at all costs.

 

[SPF]

Yes, I try not the eat the fruit period......not just this situation. It is easy enough to not condemn outwardly/verbally. Im getting better at it day by day, inwardly as well.....and the judgement of the heart, is what God sees/hears and reacts to.

It does one little good have negative judgement about anything......but if one must judge....it should be righteous.....e.g. think Good of the situation....be happy for someone else etc..

When I judge, I am immediately judged....so i avoid it at all costs.

If that's your position, how do you reconcile these two passages which seem to go against what you're trying to do?

Mat 18:15-17 "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. "But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED. "If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

1Co 5:11 But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church?

Personally, I agree with Paul that it's not our place to judge or even hold accountable those who do not proclaim Christ. Sinners are doing essentially what they're supposed to do - sin. But if someone calls themselves a Christians and claims to follow Christ, don't you see in Scripture a resounding theme of holding each other accountable, calling out sin, and rebuking?

Paul did it in I Corinthians 5 to the member of a church that he didn't even attend! Paul did it to Peter when Peter began eating only with Jews. Isn't that judging Christians' actions?

 

[Aldebaran]

No, Im only talking about in the mind of the one against abortion. If one deems it wrong....and calls those murderers who commit this act.....It seems that they should feel the same, even if there are "good reasons" to commit the act.

Im speaking in general. I, myself am not for or against it....and I choose not the judge no matter what decision others choose to make.

I consider myself to be "pro-life" as far as the political definition defines it. However, I do understand that there are certain situations where it may be necessary, such as when the pregnancy threatens the life of the mother. However, I can also see where that position can be manipulated to include things such as the idea that having a baby would make the mother's life less pleasant or it wasn't a planned pregnancy sort of thing, and that an abortion would protect the life of the mother that way. That's where I don't agree with it.

 

[Archivist]

I guess I'm having difficulty seeing how someone can call themselves pro-life if they insist that a woman not have an abortion to save her own life. How can that be pro-life if it would require that one person die?