Primitive/Predestinarian/Reformed Baptist Churches

[jturpin4]

There is 1 Primitive Baptist church in my county. There is 2 Predestinarian Baptist churches in the next county over. There are 0 Reformed Baptists in surrounding counties. Can someone tell me what is the difference between Primitive, Predestinarian, and Reformed Baptist churches??

 

[Erinwilcox]

http://www.pb.org/pbfaq.html#Other_Baptists is a site with FAQ's for the primitive baptists. They seem to be ana-baptists with extremely strong KJV only beliefs. Also, it says on the page that they only commune with those of like-mind with them and that to do otherwise is associating with the world, or something like that. They also wash feet during communion (in which they use real wine and unleavened bread). I'll answer on RB's later.

 

[mlqurgw]

There is 1 Primitive Baptist church in my county. There is 2 Predestinarian Baptist churches in the next county over. There are 0 Reformed Baptists in surrounding counties. Can someone tell me what is the difference between Primitive, Predestinarian, and Reformed Baptist churches??

I was raised a Primitive Baptist and there are as many different types of them as there are any other. Most, though, are Hyper-Calvinistic in that they believe God saves His elect with or without the preaching of the Gospel. Some don't believe in the new birth. There are those called Absoluters, belief in the absolute predestination of God and others called Progressives. I would suggest that you vist each and talk to the Pastors/Elders and see where you feel most at home.

Reformed Baptists sometimes tend to legalism, though not all. My experience with them has been that they preach a lot of doctrine and little of Christ. I have and do know several men who are Reformed Baptist. I know nothing of the Predestinarian Baptists .

I am no longer Primitive Baptist because of the Hyper-Calvinism so prevelant in many of them.

 

[edie19]

I only know Reformed Baptists so can only speak of them. With all due respect, none that I know are legalistic. Also, all Reformed Baptist pastors whom I've met and heard preach Christ and Him crucified - all would say that the entire Word of God is Christocentric (My pastor recently did a short series on "familiar stories of the Bible" - Christ was in every one).

They hold to the Bible as the only inspired word of God, however they will utilize creeds and confessions (as long as they are in accordance with Scripture). Reformed Baptists declare the 5 Solas to be true, they are 5 point Calvinists, they are covenental, and they practice believer baptism. Those are the basics - what else would you like to know. If I don't have the answer, I'm sure my pastor will.

edie

 

[strengthinweakness]

The church of which I am a member, Capitol Hill Baptist Church, is Reformed in its preaching and teaching. We do not officially identify ourselves as a "Reformed Baptist" church, but as Charles Spurgeon said, "the truths that Calvin preached, the truths that Augustine preached, the truths that Paul preached" are preached at CHBC-- and every single sermon is Christ-centered! Christ simply permeates the preaching, teaching, and songs (hymns and praise chroruses) at my church. Another thing that I love about our services is that the pastor and elders do not do "altar calls," but within each and every sermon, there is a clear call for non-Christians to repent of their sins, trust in Christ, and submit to Him as Savior from sin and Lord over life. Reformed preaching, if it is to be true, Biblically faithful preaching, should preach the necessity of repentance and faith to all people (and not merely to the "elect"-- that is a Hyper-Calvinist heresy).

 

[edie19]

The church of which I am a member, Capitol Hill Baptist Church, is Reformed in its preaching and teaching. We do not officially identify ourselves as a "Reformed Baptist" church, but as Charles Spurgeon said, "the truths that Calvin preached, the truths that Augustine preached, the truths that Paul preached" are preached at CHBC-- and every single sermon is Christ-centered! Christ simply permeates the preaching, teaching, and songs (hymns and praise chroruses) at my church. Another thing that I love about our services is that the pastor and elders do not do "altar calls," but within each and every sermon, there is a clear call for non-Christians to repent of their sins, trust in Christ, and submit to Him as Savior from sin and Lord over life. Reformed preaching, if it is to be true, Biblically faithful preaching, should preach the necessity of repentance and faith to all people (and not merely to the "elect"-- that is a Hyper-Calvinist heresy).

Your church sounds so much like mine - I hope to visit next time I'm in D.C. with my sisters.

edie

 

[jturpin4]

Thanks for your responses, they are greatly appreciated. So does anyone know what Predestinarian Baptists are?

 

[strengthinweakness]

We would love for you to visit, Edie! It would be great to me to actually meet a fellow "SR'er" (and Reformed Baptist) in person!

 

[Erinwilcox]

Your church sounds so much like mine - I hope to visit next time I'm in D.C. with my sisters.

edie

Oh! Now I'm jealous! Visit me too! D.C. isn't that far from Baltimore! My pastor visited Capitol Hill Baptist just the other week!

 

[lmnop9876]

our church used to have services in the hall at the back of a reformed (or was it particular, or primitive, or gospel standard. ) the sign at the front said "Gospel Standard Baptist," i think they may have been hyper-Calvinist, as the pastor believed that Spurgeon was an Arminian at some time later in his life.

 

[edie19]

Oh! Now I'm jealous! Visit me too! D.C. isn't that far from Baltimore! My pastor visited Capitol Hill Baptist just the other week!

2 of my sisters live in the greater D.C. area - I'm able to visit every now and then. My sister, Emily (who lives in Chevy Chase) is very close to the subway line - so I know I can get to Capitol Hill Baptist easily.

However, sister #2, Julia, lives in Mt. Airy - I think that's closer to Baltimore than to D.C. - so I could possibly visit your church also

edie

 

[Erinwilcox]

2 of my sisters live in the greater D.C. area - I'm able to visit every now and then. My sister, Emily (who lives in Chevy Chase) is very close to the subway line - so I know I can get to Capitol Hill Baptist easily.

However, sister #2, Julia, lives in Mt. Airy - I think that's closer to Baltimore than to D.C. - so I could possibly visit your church also

edie

If you come, let me know and we'll have you over for dinner that Lord's Day! My mom is an awesome cook! If you're lucky, I'll even make something chocolate for dessert (all I need is an excuse! we're all chocoholics here!)!

 

[Jon_]

My experience with them has been that they preach a lot of doctrine and little of Christ.

This statement aroused my curiosity a bit, as I normally equate the two, since Christ said, "If ye love me keep my commandments," and "Go ye therefore and teach all nations." Do you mean these churches focus on doctrine over against preaching the Gospel? I always considered that the primary ministry of the church: teaching.

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

 

[Rolf Ernst]

The church of which I am a member, Capitol Hill Baptist Church, is Reformed in its preaching and teaching. We do not officially identify ourselves as a "Reformed Baptist" church, but as Charles Spurgeon said, "the truths that Calvin preached, the truths that Augustine preached, the truths that Paul preached" are preached at CHBC-- and every single sermon is Christ-centered! Christ simply permeates the preaching, teaching, and songs (hymns and praise chroruses) at my church. Another thing that I love about our services is that the pastor and elders do not do "altar calls," but within each and every sermon, there is a clear call for non-Christians to repent of their sins, trust in Christ, and submit to Him as Savior from sin and Lord over life. Reformed preaching, if it is to be true, Biblically faithful preaching, should preach the necessity of repentance and faith to all people (and not merely to the "elect"-- that is a Hyper-Calvinist heresy).

Very good and enjoyable post. Praise God for capitol Hill Baptist church. Where is it located?

 

[mlqurgw]

This statement aroused my curiosity a bit, as I normally equate the two, since Christ said, "If ye love me keep my commandments," and "Go ye therefore and teach all nations." Do you mean these churches focus on doctrine over against preaching the Gospel? I always considered that the primary ministry of the church: teaching.

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

What I mean by that is that you hear a great deal about election, total depravity and other doctrines but almost as though they were an end in themselves. I have heard a geat deal of Law from many. It is difficult to explain but doctrine is only of value if it is adorning Christ and the Gospel. Preaching election is great if you preach it in Christ. Total depravity is true and should be preached as long as it is used to point people to Christ. I used to be a very doctrinal preacher myself. An enormous amount of doctrine but very little Christ. My doctrine was correct but I wasn't preaching the Gospel. Doctrine is a necessity but only as it relates to Christ.
Teaching truth is needful but only as it relates to the Gospel of Christ. Yes I would agree that teaching is one of the ministries of the church but a man who faithfully preaches Christ teaches the whole council of God. Christ is to be the focus of the message and in Him the Gospel relates to everything. He is both the theme and message of the whole of Scripture.

 

[edie19]

What I mean by that is that you hear a great deal about election, total depravity and other doctrines but almost as though they were an end in themselves. I have heard a geat deal of Law from many. It is difficult to explain but doctrine is only of value if it is adorning Christ and the Gospel. Preaching election is great if you preach it in Christ. Total depravity is true and should be preached as long as it is used to point people to Christ. I used to be a very doctrinal preacher myself. An enormous amount of doctrine but very little Christ. My doctrine was correct but I wasn't preaching the Gospel. Doctrine is a necessity but only as it relates to Christ.
Teaching truth is needful but only as it relates to the Gospel of Christ. Yes I would agree that teaching is one of the ministries of the church but a man who faithfully preaches Christ teaches the whole council of God. Christ is to be the focus of the message and in Him the Gospel relates to everything. He is both the theme and message of the whole of Scripture.

You're listening to the wrong pastors - the Reformed Baptist pastors I know and have heard (and they are many) all preach Christ and Him crucified, all would say the Bible is Christocentric.

edie

 

[mlqurgw]

You're listening to the wrong pastors - the Reformed Baptist pastors I know and have heard (and they are many) all preach Christ and Him crucified, all would say the Bible is Christocentric.

edie

I understand.

 

[Jon_]

I used to be a very doctrinal preacher myself. An enormous amount of doctrine but very little Christ. My doctrine was correct but I wasn't preaching the Gospel.

I understand what you're saying, but with all due respect, I think you really were preaching the Gospel. If your doctrine was correct, you were teaching properly. All true doctrine ties back to Christ, the Logos, the Mind and Wisdom of God. Expounding correct doctrine is obeying Christ's commandment of Matthew 28:19, 20. So, I think you owe yourself more credit than you're allowing (figuratively speaking).

This also kind of sets up a follow up question. We both agree that we should preach Christ, but how do we do so? Surely preaching Christ involves doctrine. How could we properly honor Christ if we do not preach him as revealed in the Scriptures? I can see where a church might fall short in failing to tie doctrine back to Christ. I know I've seen examples of that. I'd be reading a book and would think, "This is a great place to tie into the atonement," but the author decides not to. Nevertheless, this does not diminish the excellence of the teaching. It leaves room for improvement.

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

 

[mlqurgw]

I understand what you're saying, but with all due respect, I think you really were preaching the Gospel. If your doctrine was correct, you were teaching properly. All true doctrine ties back to Christ, the Logos, the Mind and Wisdom of God. Expounding correct doctrine is obeying Christ's commandment of Matthew 28:19, 20. So, I think you owe yourself more credit than you're allowing (figuratively speaking).

This also kind of sets up a follow up question. We both agree that we should preach Christ, but how do we do so? Surely preaching Christ involves doctrine. How could we properly honor Christ if we do not preach him as revealed in the Scriptures? I can see where a church might fall short in failing to tie doctrine back to Christ. I know I've seen examples of that. I'd be reading a book and would think, "This is a great place to tie into the atonement," but the author decides not to. Nevertheless, this does not diminish the excellence of the teaching. It leaves room for improvement.

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

I hope I don't need to say, but I will for those who have not read my posts, that I preach without apology the Doctrines of Grace commonly called Calvinism. Still, you can make a man a Calvinist and yet not a believer. I used to want people to be Calvinists because I thought that was what it was to be a believer. Now I desire with all my heart for people to see Christ.

“There was a reality in Job’s religion. It was not of a flimsy, notional, superficial nature; it was not merely a sound Calvinistic creed, and nothing more; it was not a religion of theory and speculation, nor a well-compacted system of doctrines and duties. There was something deeper, something more divine in Job’s religion than any such mere pretence, delusion, imitation, or hypocrisy. And if our religion be of the right kind, there will be something deeper in it, something more powerful, and supernatural, than notions and doctrines, theories and speculations, however scriptural and correct, a merely passing to and fro in our minds. There will be a divine reality in it, if God the Spirit be the Author of it; and there will be no trifling with the solemn things of God, and with our immortal souls.” J. C. Philpot


We are to seek to preach to the heart not the head. Many divide the writings of Paul into the doctrinal and the practical but I find that the practical is always in the context of the Gospel of Christ. Take Pauls teaching in Eph. 5, I do not think Paul is so much teaching the practical aspects of marriage as much as he is teaching that marriage is typical of Christ and the church. I find this to be true in all of his writings.

As I said it is difficult to explain what I mean and unless you actually hear the difference even harder to understand. I love doctrine but it is like a dress my wife wears. On her it is beautiful but laying on the bed it is only a dress.

 

[Jon_]

We are to seek to preach to the heart not the head.

I have heard many contemporary evangelicals use this phrase, but I have never quite understood it. Perhaps you can help me. What is the difference between the head and the heart? Is this distinction biblical? Thanks.

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon