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"Primacy of Peter, the Rock"

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Symes

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It would be more beneficial to both participating parties as well as lurkers before claims were made without supporting evidence. However, I will take the same liberties you have, and I will say, no, Peter is most definitely the rock that Christ was referring to. In fact, I'd cite proof for the belief, but, seeing as this thread is on a completely different topic, I would suggest opening a new thread on the subject of the Primacy of Peter, the Rock. IF you want to understand reasoning and not just what you've been told to believe...


MattMMMan17


I would be interested in having an answer to the above question.
 

thereselittleflower

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In addition to any discussion here, can I also suggest a very good book to you on the subject?

Pope Fiction by Patrick Madrid

The answer to your question (which is how or why is Peter the ROCK Jesus said he would build his church upon) can be short and sweet or long and drawn out . .

If you are specifically referring to the passage in Matthew where Jesus starts with "thou art Peter and upon this rock I will build my Church . . ", if you could give us something specific in that passage to start with, it it more help ful to us in answering your question.

Here is the full passage:

Mat 16:13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?

Mat 16:14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.

Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Mat 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Mat 16:20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.


:)

Peace in Him!
 
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adam332

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What does Moses say…

Deu. 32:3-4 Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God. He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

Deu. 32:15,18 But Jeshurun waxed fat, and kicked: thou art waxen fat, thou art grown thick, thou art covered with fatness; then he forsook God which made him, and lightly esteemed the Rock of his salvation……Of the Rock that begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee.

_________

What does this anonymous author say…

2Sam. 22:32 For who is God, save the LORD? and who is a rock, save our God?

__________

What does David say…

Psa. 18:2 The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower.

Psa. 18:31 For who is God save the LORD? or who is a rock save our God?

Psa. 95:1 O come, let us sing unto the LORD: let us make a joyful noise to the rock of our salvation.

_________

What does Isaiah say…

Isa. 28:16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

__________

What does Matthew say…

Mat. 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord’s doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

__________

What does Luke say…

Luke 20:17 And he beheld them, and said, What is this then that is written, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner?

__________

What does Paul say…

Eph. 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

1Cor. 3:9-11 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God’s husbandry, ye are God’s building. According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

1Cor. 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

___________

And, most importantly what does Peter himself say…

1Pet. 2:4-6 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious, Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

Acts 4:8-12 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel, If we this day be examined of the good deed done to the impotent man, by what means he is made whole; Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

_________

The Bible is in complete harmony Christ is the only rock and we are but stones which are built upon him.

_________

Augustine (c. a.d. 400), the greatest of Catholic theologians of the early Christian centuries, leaves it for his readers to decide whether Christ here designated Himself or Peter as “the rock” (Retractiones i. 21. 1). Chrysostom, the “golden-tongued” preacher, another Father of the early centuries, says that Jesus promised to lay the foundation of the church upon Peter’s confession [not on Peter], but elsewhere calls Christ Himself truly our foundation (Commentary on Galatians ch. 1:1–3; Homilies on 1 Timothy, No. xviii, ch. 6:21). Eusebius, the early church historian, quotes Clement of Alexandria as declaring that Peter and James and John did not strive for supremacy in the church at Jerusalem, but chose James the Just as leader (Church History ii. 1). Other early Fathers of the church, such as Hilary of Arles, taught the same.



It was only when scriptural support was sought in behalf of the claims of the bishop of Rome to the primacy of the church (see Vol. IV, p. 836) that the words of Christ upon this occasion were taken from their original context and interpreted to mean that Peter was “this rock.” Leo I was the first Roman pontiff to claim (about a.d. 445) that his authority came from Christ through Peter. Of him, Kenneth Scott Latourette, a leading church historian, says: “He insisted that by Christ’s decree Peter was the rock, the foundation, the door-keeper of the kingdom of heaven, set to bind and loose, whose judgements retained their validity in heaven, and that through the Pope, as his successor, Peter continued to perform the assignment which had been entrusted to him” (A History of Christianity [1953], p. 186). Strange indeed it is, that if this is really what Christ meant, neither Peter nor any other of the disciples, nor other Christians for four centuries thereafter, discovered the fact! How extraordinary that no Roman bishop discovered this meaning in Christ’s words until a fifth-century bishop considered it necessary to find some Biblical support for papal primacy. The significance attributed to Christ’s words, by which they are made to confer primacy upon the so-called successors of Peter, the bishops of Rome, is completely at variance with all the teachings Christ gave to His followers (see ch. 23:8, 10).



Perhaps the best evidence that Christ did not appoint Peter as the “rock” on which He would build His church is the fact that none of those who heard Christ upon this occasion—not even Peter—so construed His words, either during the time that Christ was on earth or later. Had Christ made Peter chief among the disciples, they would not thereafter have been involved in repeated arguments about which of them “should be accounted the greatest” (Luke 22:24, Mat. 18:1, Mark 9:33–35).
 
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Andrew

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Is Peter the rock?

Matthew 16:15-18
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter [Greek, Petros (masculine) -- "a rock or a stone"], and upon this rock [Greek, petra (feminine) -- "a rock, cliff or ledge"] I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Roman Catholics believe that Peter is the "rock" (verse 18) that Jesus is building His church upon.

Protestants disagree and believe that Jesus Himself is the rock. Others hold that the rock is Peter's inspired confession (verse 16) that Jesus is the Messiah, or simply, the divine, foundational truth that Jesus is the Saviour.

This article aims to prove from the Bible that the rock is Christ, not Peter.

Two or three witnesses

A rule of thumb in Bible study is to not build a doctrine on a single verse, especially one that is vague and open to controversy. Instead, God's method is to let every matter be established by "two or three witnesses".

* Deuteronomy 19:15
15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.

* Matthew 18:16
16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

* 2 Corinthians 13:1
1 This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

* 1 Timothy 5:19
19 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses.

So, are there at least two or three (or more) scriptures that state clearly that Peter is the rock?

Those who insist that Peter is the rock will point to Ephesians 2:20:

* Ephesians 2:19,20
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

Here, Paul is saying that Gentile believers are no longer "strangers and foreigners", but like believing Jews, are now part of God's family, which is built on one foundation comprising the apostles, New Testament prophets (the word "prophets" follows "apostles" as in Ephesians 3:5 and 4:11 as well) and Jesus Himself as the "chief corner stone".

So, verse 20 does not say that Peter alone is the rock or foundation on which the "household of God" is built. This cannot be so as the other apostles, the prophets and Jesus are included in the foundation.

Moreover, Paul's emphasis is on Jesus being the "chief corner stone". In fact, he taught the Corinthian church that Jesus Christ is the one and only foundation of "God's building" (the church).

* 1 Corinthians 3:9-11 [NIV]
9 For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, God's building.
10 By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should be careful how he builds.
11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Another verse that is also used to show that Peter is the rock is:

* Revelation 21:14
14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

This scripture, however, is irrelevant as it is talking about the 12 foundations of the wall of the new Jerusalem that will come down from heaven (Revelation 21:2,10). It is not talking about the earthly church.

Even if we assume that "the wall of the city" is the church (a ridiculous notion), the verse mentions "twelve foundations", not one foundation or one rock.

This begs the questions: How many rocks are there supposed to be? Twelve? How many did Jesus mention? One. How many do the Catholics believe there are? One.

And as we have already seen, the church is built on only one foundation (Ephesians 2:20 and 1 Corinthians 3:11), not 12.

Why Jesus Christ is the rock

There are simply too many scriptures that state explicitly that Jesus is the rock.

In the New Testament alone, there are five verses that testify clearly to this truth:

* Romans 9:33
33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

* 1 Corinthians 10:4
4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

* 1 Peter 2:6-8
6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

The Old Testament offers many more scriptures:

* Deuteronomy 32:4
4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
* Deuteronomy 32:15
15 But Jeshurun waxed fat, and kicked: thou art waxen fat, thou art grown thick, thou art covered with fatness; then he forsook God which made him, and lightly esteemed the Rock of his salvation.
* Deuteronomy 32:18
18 Of the Rock that begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee.
* Deuteronomy 32:30
30 How should one chase a thousand, and two put ten thousand to flight, except their Rock had sold them, and the LORD had shut them up?
* Deuteronomy 32:31
31 For their rock is not as our Rock, even our enemies themselves being judges.
* 1 Samuel 2:2
2 There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.
* 2 Samuel 22:2
2 And he said, The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer;
* 2 Samuel 22:3
3 The God of my rock; in him will I trust: he is my shield, and the horn of my salvation, my high tower, and my refuge, my saviour; thou savest me from violence.
* 2 Samuel 22:32
32 For who is God, save the LORD? and who is a rock, save our God?
* 2 Samuel 22:47
47 The LORD liveth; and blessed be my rock; and exalted be the God of the rock of my salvation.
* 2 Samuel 23:3
3 The God of Israel said, the Rock of Israel spake to me, He that ruleth over men must be just, ruling in the fear of God.
* Psalm 18:2
2 The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength [rock], in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower.
* Psalm 18:31
31 For who is God save the LORD? or who is a rock save our God?
* Psalm 18:46
46 The LORD liveth; and blessed be my rock; and let the God of my salvation be exalted.
* Psalm 28:1
1 <<A Psalm of David.>> Unto thee will I cry, O LORD my rock; be not silent to me: lest, if thou be silent to me, I become like them that go down into the pit.
* Psalm 31:2
2 Bow down thine ear to me; deliver me speedily: be thou my strong rock, for an house of defence to save me.
* Psalm 31:3
3 For thou art my rock and my fortress; therefore for thy name’s sake lead me, and guide me.
* Psalm 42:9
9 I will say unto God my rock, Why hast thou forgotten me? why go I mourning because of the oppression of the enemy?
* Psalm 62:2
2 He only is my rock and my salvation; he is my defence; I shall not be greatly moved.
* Psalm 62:6
6 He only is my rock and my salvation: he is my defence; I shall not be moved.
* Psalm 62:7
7 In God is my salvation and my glory: the rock of my strength, and my refuge, is in God.
* Psalm 71:3
3 Be thou my strong habitation, whereunto I may continually resort: thou hast given commandment to save me; for thou art my rock and my fortress.
* Psalm 78:35
35 And they remembered that God was their rock, and the high God their redeemer.
* Psalm 89:26
26 He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation.
* Psalm 92:15
15 To shew that the LORD is upright: he is my rock, and there is no unrighteousness in him.
* Psalm 94:22
22 But the LORD is my defence; and my God is the rock of my refuge.
* Psalm 95:1
1 O come, let us sing unto the LORD: let us make a joyful noise to the rock of our salvation.
* Isaiah 8:14
14 And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
* Isaiah 17:10
10 Because thou hast forgotten the God of thy salvation, and hast not been mindful of the rock of thy strength, therefore shalt thou plant pleasant plants, and shalt set it with strange slips:

Change of Greek words

Finally, it should also be noted that the Greek words used are different. The Greek for "Peter" is Petros, masculine, while the Greek for "rock" is petra, feminine.

It is also interesting to note that in the New Testament scriptures cited earlier...

* Romans 9:33
33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

* 1 Corinthians 10:4
4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

* 1 Peter 2:8
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

...the Greek word for rock or Rock (referring to Christ) is also petra.
 
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