Priest to Pope Francis: ‘You are hurting my parish’ by promoting homosexuality

[Veloman]

The line of morality and what is/isn't sinful is NOT a fine line. It is a thick, fat, bold, in-your-face line that is based on what GOD says is/isn't sin. One can find these facts in the bible. That being said, the bible says that we are not to give place to sin--this means that we are not to give it an inch. Pope Francis has failed this with his declaration to bless same-sex couples. This action is enabling the masses to reason that it's okay for these people to remain in a union--a homosexual union--a union that God says is an abomination in the bible. But wait, wait, wait....there's more that isn't being said. What about all the other Catholic clergy that agree with the pope? The fact is that they either lack the moral judgement that the pope lacks, and/or they are using the Catholic church to manipulate the masses towards a sinful end. Just look at the decision made during the Second Vatican Council that made it clear that anything a pope says concerning moral issues is infallible. Real smart one there (READ: sarcasm). Declare that a mortal man who is susceptible to sin is now infallible on any moral issue because HE (acting pope) says so. It doesn't matter what the bible says....if the acting pope says something different, then THAT is now what is expected to supercede the bible. THIS IS SIN AND MANIPULATION AT IT'S BEST, FOLKS.

 

[chevyontheriver]

The line of morality and what is/isn't sinful is NOT a fine line. It is a thick, fat, bold, in-your-face line that is based on what GOD says is/isn't sin. One can find these facts in the bible. That being said, the bible says that we are not to give place to sin--this means that we are not to give it an inch. Pope Francis has failed this with his declaration to bless same-sex couples. This action is enabling the masses to reason that it's okay for these people to remain in a union--a homosexual union--a union that God says is an abomination in the bible.

Yup.

But wait, wait, wait....there's more that isn't being said. What about all the other Catholic clergy that agree with the pope? The fact is that they either lack the moral judgement that the pope lacks, and/or they are using the Catholic church to manipulate the masses towards a sinful end.

There are some of those priests. Many dioceses will have one. They seem all too common in Germany and Belgium.

Just look at the decision made during the Second Vatican Council that made it clear that anything a pope says concerning moral issues is infallible. Real smart one there (READ: sarcasm). Declare that a mortal man who is susceptible to sin is now infallible on any moral issue because HE (acting pope) says so. It doesn't matter what the bible says....if the acting pope says something different, then THAT is now what is expected to supercede the bible. THIS IS SIN AND MANIPULATION AT IT'S BEST, FOLKS.

First, Vatican II didn't say any such thing. Nor did Vatican I. You may not know what you are talking about. They did speak to infallibility but never how anything or everything a pope says is infallible. Infallibility is a very limited thing.

Second, when pope Paul VI issued Humanae Vitae about how the use of contraception was wrong, it was not, on it's own, considered infallible. You can make a decent case that what it reiterates, that contraception is immoral, is infallible because it is the continued consistent ordinary teaching of Christianity up until the Anglicans decided to do away with it in 1930 and all of Protestantism jumped off that same moral cliff soon after. And most Catholics joined in and jumped off that same moral cliff. Have you jumped off that cliff too?

Third, pope Francis is finding considerable pushback from cardinals and bishops and priests and laity who are telling him and his buddy cardinal Fernandez to go pound sand. If he has half a clue he will back himself out of the hole he is digging for himself. Maybe he's clueless, or maybe he can figure it out. It's not for lack of people letting him know. Pope Francis hasn't said a thing yet that can be construed as infallible. He can't supercede the Bible. We know that, and he will hear it loud and clear. At least the sound will reach his ears. No telling what might go in in the neurons after that.

Fourth, your comment may be manipulation at near best levels. Maybe you just don't know what you are talking about though. But if you do it is manipulation to lie about Catholic teaching on infallibility, also to say that this pope has said anything yet that even claims infallibility. This pope is sliding off the rails. It could be quite the train wreck if it continues. If he decides to say some new false teaching is infallible then we will have to remove him from office. But the biological solution is probably close at hand anyway. Then the next pope can undo the mess he has made.

 

[IcyChain]

This pope is sliding off the rails. It could be quite the train wreck if it continues. If he decides to say some new false teaching is infallible then we will have to remove him from office.

@Veloman But nevertheless you should join the one, holy, catholic and apostolic church.

 

[IcyChain]

If he decides to say some new false teaching is infallible then we will have to remove him from office.

Likewise, if you incorrectly conclude that his ex cathedra teaching is false, you will have to join the sedevacantists.

 

[Veloman]

Here is an article from a well-respected catholic website on papal infallibility. It appears that the premise for it is alive and well today. Did Vatican II do away with papal infallibility?
I am a catecumen, FYI.

 

[IcyChain]

Here is an article from a well-respected catholic website on papal infallibility. It appears that the premise for it is alive and well today. Did Vatican II do away with papal infallibility?
I am a catecumen, FYI.

Infallibility only applies when the pope speaks ex cathedra. Here is a translation of the magisterial document:

​

Vatican I's Dogmatic Constitution Pastor aeternus, on the Church of Christ) | EWTN

EWTN is a global, Catholic Television, Catholic Radio, and Catholic News Network that provides catholic programming and news coverage from around the world.

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​

9. Therefore, faithfully adhering to the tradition received from the beginning of the christian faith, to the glory of God our savior, for the exaltation of the Catholic religion and for the salvation of the christian people, with the approval of the Sacred Council, we teach and define as a divinely revealed dogma that when the Roman Pontiff speaks EX CATHEDRA, that is, when, in the exercise of his office as shepherd and teacher of all Christians, in virtue of his supreme apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole Church, he possesses, by the divine assistance promised to him in blessed Peter, that infallibility which the divine Redeemer willed his Church to enjoy in defining doctrine concerning faith or morals. Therefore, such definitions of the Roman Pontiff are of themselves, and not by the consent of the Church, irreformable.​

 

[chevyontheriver]

Likewise, if you incorrectly conclude that his ex cathedra teaching is false, you will have to join the sedevacantists.

What ex cathedra statement would that be?

 

[chevyontheriver]

Here is an article from a well-respected catholic website on papal infallibility. It appears that the premise for it is alive and well today. Did Vatican II do away with papal infallibility?
I am a catecumen, FYI.

So are you saying that whatever the pope says about faith or morals is automatically infallible?

 

[fide]

Pope Francis isn't promoting homosexuality. If your parish is hurting from misinformation, the problem is you,
not Pope Francis.

Jim, the Immaculate Conception was reserved for one and only one human person in the Church, and that person was not the Pope. You really don't have to abandon the obvious to be a faithful Catholic.

 

[fide]

Respect people, even those you don't agree with.

There are differences of opinion, and there is the difference between truth and falsity. Yes, matters of mere opinion weigh little to nothing on the scales; should have no bearing on the honor due to persons who respect the image of God entrusted to their very being. But a man who loves falsity, hates truth and denies the foundation of his very being. Would you accompany him on his journey to self-destruction? Or would you respect him enough to share truth with him?

 

[IcyChain]

A man who loves falsity, hates truth and denies the foundation of his very being.

You and I are each of these things every time that we sin. And yet a loving God still accompanies us on our journeys.

 

[Chrystal-J]

By the way, can you prove you are not a bot?

Or someone sent to convince us that this same sex blessing nonsense is valid.

 

[chevyontheriver]

You and I are each of these things every time that we sin. And yet a loving God still accompanies us on our journeys.

A loving God says "neither do I condemn you. Go and sin no more". It's that last part that the accompanists seem to forget about. To love the sin is to hate the sinner.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Or someone sent to convince us that this same sex blessing nonsense is valid.

My point about bots was that it is becoming hard to know who is a real biological and who is a bot. I don't want to waste my time with bots and AI. I'd rather deal with humans.

 

[IcyChain]

A loving God says "neither do I condemn you. Go and sin no more". It's that last part that the accompanists seem to forget about. To love the sin is to hate the sinner.

To the extent that anyone forgets about the need for conversion, I agree with you.

 

[Veloman]

So are you saying that whatever the pope says about faith or morals is automatically infallible?

No, I don't. However it appears that a part of Catholic doctrine does. Truth be told, every word of doctrine must be weighed against the Word of God. Just recently I read through I Timothy, II Timothy, and Titus. My observations (and convictions) have lead me to the conclusion that every facet of Christianity today is corrupted with false Christians, false doctrines, false biblical interpretations, division out the wa-zoo (yes, the "wa-zoo"), denominations of Christianity attacking one another, self-professing Christians of said denominations personally shunning/attacking one another, and every manner of sin as outlined in the three books of the bible I mentioned.
I am not saying that ALL Christians behave this way, but I have observed that the majority of them do, thus, these people aren't really Christians as per the bible. A percentage of these people are clergy in various denominations, some of who scandalized the faith. This serves as evidence that demonstrates that there is no infallibility within human nature, and that the divinely inspired Word of God is the only place where one can find it.

 

[fide]

You and I are each of these things every time that we sin. And yet a loving God still accompanies us on our journeys.

Do you recognize no difference between mortal and venial sins? And no difference between these and apostasy? And how do you understand this, in Scripture:

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
Heb 6:5 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come,
Heb 6:6 if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt.

At what point in your theology does a loving God cease "accompanying" a man who has lost sanctifying grace?

CCC 1855 Mortal sin destroys charity in the heart of man by a grave violation of God’s law; it turns man away from God, who is his ultimate end and his beatitude, by preferring an inferior good to him.

CCC 1861 Mortal sin is a radical possibility of human freedom, as is love itself. It results in the loss of charity and the privation of sanctifying grace, that is, of the state of grace. If it is not redeemed by repentance and God’s forgiveness, it causes exclusion from Christ’s kingdom and the eternal death of hell, for our freedom has the power to make choices forever, with no turning back. However, although we can judge that an act is in itself a grave offense, we must entrust judgment of persons to the justice and mercy of God.

 

[IcyChain]

Do you recognize no difference between mortal and venial sins? And no difference between these and apostasy?

The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: “God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector.”

And how do you understand this, in Scripture:

At what point in your theology does a loving God cease "accompanying" a man who has lost sanctifying grace?

Every person who has committed a mortal sin and lost sanctifying grace, receives grace from God before he repents. If he did not receive grace from God, he would be unable to bring himself to repentance. This is the "actual grace" that is referred to in Fiducia Supplicans.

 

[fide]

The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: “God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector.”

Every person who has committed a mortal sin and lost sanctifying grace, receives grace from God before he repents. If he did not receive grace from God, he would be unable to bring himself to repentance. This is the "actual grace" that is referred to in Fiducia Supplicans.

It seems you have learned how to answer questions from the pope. If you want to truly grow in grace, I suggest you find another teacher.

 

[chevyontheriver]

No, I don't.

That's good

However it appears that a part of Catholic doctrine does.

Infallibility in Catholic teaching is a very limited thing. Not everything a pope says is infallible. Most popes never issue any infallible statements. Humanae Vitae, which I consider to be truthful in saying contraception is immoral, just wasn't an infallible document. But the continued teaching reiterated in Humanae Vitae ought to be considered the perennial teaching and thus infallible. But that's just St. Vincent of Lerins.

Truth be told, every word of doctrine must be weighed against the Word of God. Just recently I read through I Timothy, II Timothy, and Titus. My observations (and convictions) have lead me to the conclusion that every facet of Christianity today is corrupted with false Christians, false doctrines, false biblical interpretations, division out the wa-zoo (yes, the "wa-zoo"), denominations of Christianity attacking one another, self-professing Christians of said denominations personally shunning/attacking one another, and every manner of sin as outlined in the three books of the bible I mentioned.

Yup. 1 Tim, 2 Tim, and Titus have been frequent stops in my Bible reading.

I am not saying that ALL Christians behave this way, but I have observed that the majority of them do, thus, these people aren't really Christians as per the bible. A percentage of these people are clergy in various denominations, some of who scandalized the faith. This serves as evidence that demonstrates that there is no infallibility within human nature, and that the divinely inspired Word of God is the only place where one can find it.

There is no infallibility in human nature. But the point is that there is infallibility in God and in the Church God said would not be defeated by the gates of hell. Thus the Church has infallibility by it's nature as a divinely instituted thing. Not at all that anything a pope says or a council says are automatically true. It's limited. Pope Francis hasn't uttered an infallible statement yet.