Pride's Boundaries

Is there a fine line between where Pride stops and self respect begins? I know this virtue encourages to keep priorities as follows (at least I think): God, others, yourself...to keep it pretty vague. But at what point do we need to step up for ourselves? Is it when someone takes personal attacks at you? Or when somebody threatens your family? Or is it ever? I've been struggling with the concept of not standing up for myself, which I'm sure is a negative way to put it, but I can't help but feel that sometimes.

Self respect is the knowing that you can withstand what ever may come. Pride is making sure everyone else knows it too.

We use Pride in two ways:

Spartan Pride: We have spirit for our school, We feel good about our school, etc.
High Self-Esteem, Self-Assured, Content

Pride: Love of self that surpasses love for others, if one has any love for others at all.
Conceit, arrogance, haughtiness. There is usually a need to put use your talents to make others feel less than, to criticize others to feed your pride, etc.

I have often heard the priorities should be, God first, others second, myself last.
However, I have to disagree.
If you don't have love for yourself, it is really difficult to love others genuinely.
Ever meet someone who smiles a lot, confident, feels good about themselves? They usually have love for themselves that generates internally, and are thus filled with love to give to others.

People with insecurities, usually seen in a shell of arrogance, selfishness, hostility, the need to point out their wealth/intelligence/talent/beauty/status to others, however, often seek love from others rather than give it, lash out in fear, anger or suspicion of others. They have an emptiness that generates nothings.

If one is to love their neighbor as they love themselves, and have no love for themselves, that is all they will be able to offer their neighbor.
A parent doesn't think: I must physically care for God, then my children, then myself.
If you aren't physically caring for yourself, you won't be able to care for your children properly.

If one can have love and respect for themselves, however, they then know how to treat others, and that, imo, is loving God.
So, the order is self/others/God in the way it is acheived, but as a priority, they are all equal.

DJax said:

Is there a fine line between where Pride stops and self respect begins? I know this virtue encourages to keep priorities as follows (at least I think): God, others, yourself...to keep it pretty vague. But at what point do we need to step up for ourselves? Is it when someone takes personal attacks at you? Or when somebody threatens your family? Or is it ever? I've been struggling with the concept of not standing up for myself, which I'm sure is a negative way to put it, but I can't help but feel that sometimes.

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No, you're right. This is exactly what christianity asks of you. Enjoy your weakness.

I disagree. I don't think that Christ commanded that one allow others to abuse you, or walk all over you, or take advantage of you.

People with low self-esteem allow that.

Christ said that when someone slaps you, to turn the other cheek. Don't return violence with violence, or insult with insult. Bless those who curse you. Act in love.

Christ stood up to the Pharisees, and even called them vipers brood, and Sons of hell.

But he also taught that one must not act in revenge.
If your spouse cheats on you, you have ever right to not want to be in the relationship, because it is harmful to you.
But sleeping with someone else to get back at her only further complicates the problem.

In the Christian sense, pride is selfish love for oneself that places one and one's needs above everything else.

I agree with Beanie on this. Pride has more than one meaning.

Loving self above or at the expense of others is detrimental to all concerned.

Yet God made each one of us wonderfully, and loves us beyond our knowing. Pride in acceptance of that love, especially in the face of persecution, is a powerful tool for faith.

Humility is the excellent companion of Pride.

eh, I don't have pride.

Just overtly arrogant confidence.

=)

To me, 'pride' is just the word that the Judeo-Christian tradition has given to a healthy, normal sense of respect for yourself. It is simply used to degrade human beings, and like every aspect of Christianity, make us feel guilty for perfectly healthy feelings and attitudes.

People who aren't 'proud' are usually depressed, mentally unhealthy people. Being proud is a good thing.

Think of the people you see on the street who haven't bothered to shower or put on decent clothes...it's not because they're 'humble' or whatever, they're usually alcoholics, drug addicts or clinically depressed. Not being 'proud' is a very dangerous thing.

Pride is I-me-my.....the opposite of humility ....^^^he gave me, helped, instructed

Self respect ...meekness , 1 Peter 3.4 .... having the power, like Jeus, but choosing not to use it at the wrong time, to not cast your pearls before swine

to be a proverbs 31 person rather than a proverbs 11.22 person...

I cannot remember, and wish I could, where I originally read an insight that has helped me deal with this and related concepts: Each of the "Seven Deadly Sins", the mental states that give rise to sinful behavior, is actually the perversion, to selfish ends, of a vrtue, a behavior created by God and good in itself.

For example, sexual desire is one of God's gifts, given before the Fall according to Genesis and celebrated in the Song of Songs, whereby the committed couple gives joy to each other and founds their love in something physical, an integral part of His plan for the human race. Lust is the selfish use of the other as sex object, whether by thought or deed.

The Sabbath was commanded as a day of rest, God's wisdom knowing that human beings need time to rest and "recharge their batteries." Sloth is the abuse of this human necessity to put off doing what needs doing.

Appetite, in this case meaning the desire for food, is the God-given pleasure in satisfying one's hunger with food and beverage which taste good. Gluttony is, obviously, the abuse of this.

Self-respect is a part of being a healthy human. We are commanded to love others precisely as we love ourselves -- and it is a cold person who loves neither him/herself nor anyone else. The proper Biblical attitude would seem to be, "I am no better and no worse than you, and you, no better or worse than me." Pride, in the Scriptural sinful sense, is the esteeming of self as better, more deserving, more greatly entitled to God's love than another. The Golden Rule itself militates against this.

One linguistic quirk that confuses the issue is the use of "pride" to mean healthy self-respect. To avoid a controversial example, consider some years back when American Blacks were exhorted to espouse "Black Pride." This was not an encouragement to sinful pride, hubris, but rather a call to adopt the attitude: No matter how much racists may have denigrated me, I am as God made me, and I have respect for myself as His creature.

plmarquette said:

Pride is I-me-my.....the opposite of humility ....^^^he gave me, helped, instructed

Self respect ...meekness , 1 Peter 3.4 .... having the power, like Jeus, but choosing not to use it at the wrong time, to not cast your pearls before swine

to be a proverbs 31 person rather than a proverbs 11.22 person...

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So, when your parents say that they are proud of you, they are congratulating themselves, and not saying that they feel good about what you have accomplished?

People who have "Spartan Pride" for their school simply don't like their own sports team, and offer support to help the team strive to excel, but are simply navel gazing?

When someone sings the song, "I'm Proud to Be American", they mean that they only care about themselves, and not that they feel good about what it means to be American?

The word pride has expanded in English to mean far more than is meant by the vice or sin of Pride. The virtue opposed to pride (not the opposite of pride mind you, it lies between the excess of pride and the deficiency of pusillanimity) is humility. I see humility as a correct knowledge of one's place and value. It is an ability to see where one fits in the world, the good in oneself and one's actions, but also all one owes to others. Pride magnifies the self, makes the self the author of everything good in one's life and none of the evil. It leads to the arrogance of "well things went wrong, but it was in no way my fault" and "it's a good thing I'm around, or nothing good would happen."

Humility is not pusillanimity! Humility does not mean denigrating oneself, convincing oneself of flaws that aren't there. Humility means seeing the good that one does, but also recognizing that the good is done through the grace of God.

As for prioritizing who deserves love or respect or whatever, I think that it's unhealthy. It implies that if I truly do respect myself and act towards my own happiness in a balanced and virtuous way, then I will necessarily be doing a disservice to those around me or to God. Love is not a limited resource, and the gift of love is not mutually exclusive. I think it is also important to remember that we are commanded to love our neighbors as ourselves. If we didn't love ourselves, how would we treat our neighbors with that in mind.

In closing I would say not be afraid of the word pride. It means many things today and most of them are positive. Instead, know what the vice of pride entails and avoid that.