Prevenient Grace

[judson1982]

Even though the Armanians cling to it, wouldn't it be considered predestination?

 

[ChristIsSovereign]

Even though the Armanians cling to it, wouldn't it be considered predestination?

Prevenient*

They believe that God gives them a secondary form of grace that leads them to salvation.

 

[St_Worm2]

Of course we Calvinists do too (hold to the necessity of "prevenient grace"), it's just that we believe His grace is so wonderful that it is literally irresistible to us .. meaning that those who God extends His prevenient grace to will always chose to exercise it (IOW, exercise this "gift" of faith .. Ephesians 2:8-9) by choosing to believe and be saved.

The Arminian version of this grace makes believing "possible" for all w/o exception, but all must then choose to accept or reject God on their own, APART from grace. The question is, will anyone do so? .. cf Romans 3:9-12.

Yours and His,
David
p.s. - I believe the RCC teaches that this grace (prevenient grace), which gives one the 'ability' to believe, is obtained in the waters of baptism as the stain of Original Sin is washed away.

Ephesians 2
1 You were dead in your trespasses and sins,
2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.
3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.
4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved).​

 

[SpiritSong]

Methodists believe in it too.

 

[St_Worm2]

Even though the Armanians cling to it, wouldn't it be considered predestination?

Hi Judson, yes (in a sense), because by it (their understanding of foreknowledge) they teach/believe that the "elect" are chosen by God. IOW, this is how Arminian theology "handles" what the Bible refers to as election or predestination to bring it in line with their particular presupposition.

Once God made believing 'possible' for all w/o exception (through what Arminian soteriology calls "prevenient grace"), those who He sees making the decision to choose Him as their Savior (He is said to look down though a tunnel of time to see this happening) He then chooses to "elect" or "predestine" as His own because they did that.

IOW, He chooses us because we first chose Him.

--David

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

Even though the Armanians cling to it, wouldn't it be considered predestination?

According to whom? For the Arminian? For the Calvinist? According to the Scriptures? Since the question is posed in "Ask a Calvinist" which perspective are you seeking? Wrong area for the Arminian perspective. From the Calvinist perspective, there is no prevenient grace, there is sovereign grace. Predestination from an Arminian perspective is a mess, and there may be equivocation of terms...

From Wikipedia:

"Prevenient grace is embraced primarily by Arminian Christians who are influenced by the theology of Jacob Arminius or John Wesley. Wesleyan Arminians believe that grace enables, but does not ensure, personal acceptance of the gift of salvation. Wesley typically referred to it in 18th-century language as prevenient grace. In current English, the phrase preceding grace would have a similar meaning.

Arminian Free Will Baptist theologian Robert E. Picirilli says that the word "prevenient" in prevenient grace comes from an archaic English usage meaning "anticipating", "coming before", or "preceding".[3] Picirilli says that a good synonym for "prevenient grace" is "enabling grace", as it enables sinful mankind to believe.

Thomas Oden of Drew University defines prevenient grace as, "...the grace that begins to enable one to choose further to cooperate with saving grace. By offering the will the restored capacity to respond to grace, the person then may freely and increasingly become an active, willing participant in receiving the conditions for justification."
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From Theopedia:

Predestination in its broadest conception is the doctrine that because God is all-powerful, all-knowing, and completely sovereign, he "from all eternity did by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass," (Westminster Confession). "In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will" (Ephesians 1:11).

Calvinists and Arminians agree that only some are chosen for salvation, and that those who are elect will come to faith and believe until the end. Further, both viewpoints agree that those who turn from sin to follow Christ are saved. The question is this: On what basis did God predestine people? Did God predestine some because He knew they would believe of their own free will, or did He predestine without regard to human choices? Was God's choice based on man's choice, or is man's choice itself a result of God's choice?

According to John Calvin,

"Predestination we call the eternal decree of God, by which He has determined in Himself, what He would have to become of every individual of mankind. For they are not all created with a similar destiny; but eternal life is foreordained for some and eternal death for others. Every man, therefore, being created for one or the other of these ends, we say he is predestinated either to life or to death." Institutes, Book III, Ch. XXI, Sec. 5.

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Some Calvinists (like Presbyterians myself included) believe in a concept called "common grace" (poorly worded concept if you ask me) which is also not to be confused or mingled with the Arminian concept of prevenient grace.

Prevenient grace has more in common with synergism, while predestination has more in common with monergism.

No wheels were invented or attempted to be in this post. God bless.

 

[JM]

Excellent thread.

 

[AMR]

Actually, the Reformed view would reject prevenient grace with the understanding that this is a Romanist notion, in that man is not so totally fallen that he is destitute of a mediatory "seed of righteousness" (aka, prevenient grace) that enables fallen man to choose wisely.

If we are using the word prevenient simply to mean coming beforehand, no problem, if by that it is mean the Spirit's effectual calling of the unregenerated elect. The use of the term prevenient grace requires careful qualification in theological discussions.

See:
Prevenient Grace - Monergism.com
Doctrine of Arminian Prevenient Grace by Rev. Mark Herzer

 

[twin1954]

Arminian prevenient grace is a made up doctrine to bolster the Arminian theology.

But if you want to call God's providential grace that keeps us until the time that Christ makes Himself known in us prevenient grace I have no problem.

 

[sdowney717]

Arminian prevenient grace is a made up doctrine to bolster the Arminian theology.

But if you want to call God's providential grace that keeps us until the time that Christ makes Himself known in us prevenient grace I have no problem.

You mean keeps us from dying before we believe in our heart and confess Christ as Lord.
Must absolutely be true, so we are preserved in Christ before we receive Christ.
All the called are preserved in Christ.
Should be very comforting thought this eternal salvation, but so many are deceived about the potential losing of their individual salvation. For a calvinist, this should not be of concern. Jesus knew where He was going and He was also going away to prepare a place for us to be with Him. God did not drop Elijah out of the chariot, but the sons of the prophets were very upset. Honestly what do people really believe, did Christ speak clearly or not to His disciples!

1 John 1
12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Jude 1
To those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ:
2 Mercy, peace, and love be multiplied to you.

One of the funniest stories is playing out here.

15 Now when the sons of the prophets who were from Jericho saw him, they said, “The spirit of Elijah rests on Elisha.” And they came to meet him, and bowed to the ground before him.

16 Then they said to him, “Look now, there are fifty strong men with your servants. Please let them go and search for your master, lest perhaps the Spirit of the Lord has taken him up and cast him upon some mountain or into some valley.”

And he said, “You shall not send anyone.”

17 But when they urged him till he was ashamed, he said, “Send them!” Therefore they sent fifty men, and they searched for three days but did not find him. 18 And when they came back to him, for he had stayed in Jericho, he said to them, “Did I not say to you, ‘Do not go’?”

 

[Don Maurer]

Even though the Armanians cling to it, wouldn't it be considered predestination?

Judson1982, I am wondering if I know you.

In any case, did you get your answer? One of the things involved in this discussion is called the ordo-salutus (order of salvation). This does not speak of a time chronology, but a logical order. Reformed people all believe that regeneration is the cause of faith, so we do see a work of the Holy Spirit in changing the nature of the person in regeneration as preceding justification. The concept of regeneration is easily found in both the NT and OT. The individuals that God regenerates have been predestined for salvation in eternity past.

It has already been mentioned above that the RCC/Westlian/Arminian prevenient grace is not the same as the Reformed view. In their view, all mankind experiences this preceding grace in which those who are spiritually dead, are restored to "free will." Since with the vast majority of people, this kind of preceding work of Grace fails and is insufficient to bring salvation, since most of humanity does not choose to trust the shed blood of Christ. That prevenient grace is a weak failure in most cases. I do not see how that relates to predestination.

No another question for you... are you still here?