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Preterism: the Mark of the Beast

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Hidden Manna

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No I haven't, is it about everyone being saved? I read one artical saying concerning the unrepentant that the Lake of Fire will destroy the body and soul, but the Spirit will be saved and they will bow down and confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. Their Spirit gets saved as by fire.


The fire is refiner's fire to us though and it only burns up the dross. What was done through us by the Spirit of God remains and we get rewarded. What are your thoughts.
I personal leave this one on the back burner, if it is proven fine if not it will just stay there.
 
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Suede

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Hidden Manna,

+++No I haven't, is it about everyone being saved?+++

Yes it (Christian Universalism) is. Just wondering if you had looked into it at all. I've been a Preterist for about a year now, and I'm starting to look into the doors that it opens and closes. Universalism is one of those that it opens. I personally see Universalism as basically impossible in a Futurist model, but Preterism makes it possible. I was just curious if you've looked into it or not. It seems that that's the next big thing Preterists look into.

+++The fire is refiner's fire to us though and it only burns up the dross.+++

To a degree yes, this is true. Usually though, for the record, the 'Dross Charge' is against non believers, not believers - specifically against apostate Israel. But I'm impressed that you know about dross.

+++What are your thoughts.+++
Still investigating Christian Universalism. Right now I see the Big Picture of it, and I will say that on a large, blanket scale, it does make sense. But we all know that God is in the details, so I am asking direct questions to Universalists. Most answers are pretty good, some are a bit vague though. Usually though, like with a lot of aspects of Preterism, it really comes down to understanding language and how it is used. It's actually quite interesting at times.

+++I personal leave this one on the back burner, if it is proven fine if not it will just stay there.+++

That's fine, I don't worry too much sense I am a Christian. But, I'm looking into it right now. Not really to prove it, but to see if it's right. I'm going in as a major skeptic, just like I did with Preterism!! Take care,

SUEDE
 
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Hidden Manna

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Sounds good let me know if you find anything solid. Thanks for the links. The F A/Q is a good one. I've read postings before where this site was used. It's a keeper and I'll be able to give better answers. I really liked this one.

Is Preterism Anti-semitic ?

QUESTION 11: Can you possibly deny that preterism is anti-semitic?
ANSWER: I cannot deny that there are some modern-day "Jew"-haters who use preterism to teach that all "Jews" since A. D. 70 are under a special curse of God and that therefore people like Hitler aren't such bad guys after all.
However, that teaching is an abominable perversion of preterist doctrine and those who spread it should be avoided by everyone.
Yes, I can deny that preterism is anti-semitic. As surprising as it may seem, it is actually consistent futurism that logically fosters "Jew"-hatred. Here are some verses that show this to be true:


And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the Great City which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified. (Rev. 11:8)

This verse designates Jerusalem as "Sodom and Egypt" because it was in Jerusalem that the Lord Jesus was crucified. If we are to say this verse refers to a time in our future and is not yet fulfilled, then we must also say that Jerusalem remains the spiritual "Sodom and Egypt" to this very day because of its Messianic blood-guilt, and that it must remain so indicted until the Judgment of Rev. 11:13-19 is fulfilled sometime in our future. This conclusion is inescapable if the passage has yet to be fulfilled.
And if Rev. 11:13-19 is yet unfulfilled, this logically implies that Paul's indictment against Jews must also remain intact to this very day, specifically, that "the Jews [who "killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets"] ...are ...hostile to all men" and that "they always fill up the measure of their sins." (I Thess. 2:14-16)
Consistent futurism logically produces a very dangerous ambiguity and ambivalence toward modern-day "Jews" in that, on the one hand, they are in some sense "God's chosen people," while on the other hand they remain a blood-guilty race of enemies (Rom. 11:28) who are opposed to all men, and whose metropolis is "Egypt" and "Sodom" until Revelation 11 is fulfilled. This is the hateful fruit of consistent futurism.
In the preterist doctrine, in contrast, Jerusalem was "given to the nations" by God in the late 60's, A.D., and the Great City was then trampled under foot until it was destroyed in A. D. 70. In those terrible "days of vengeance," the wrath of God against the Jews came to the utmost (I Thess. 2:16; Heb. 10:26-31) and they paid the price for their Messianic blood-guilt to the last penny (Lk. 12:54-59).
After that day, the blood-descendants of Abraham became --covenantally speaking-- simply one of the many ethnic classes in the family of man (Eph. 3:15). There is not one ethnic group (or "race") of men today that is in any sense rejected by God or favored by God over others, but all are freely accepted in Christ and are made One through faith in Him.
How many lives would have been saved if this preterist view of Israel in Bible prophecy had been taught instead of consistent futurism?
Probably millions.

QUESTION 98: Do you believe in "replacement theology?" Was Israel replaced by the Church? Since the Jews are no longer God's chosen people, does that indicate that Jews are an accursed race because of what they did to Christ?

ANSWER:
Abraham's descendants were not cut off and "replaced" by a gentile church. The Jews never became an accursed race.
Yes, there was a wicked and perverse generation of accursed Jews in the Last Days. (Matt. 25:41; Mk. 11:21; Gal. 3:10) And yes, after A.D. 70 Abraham's descendants were no longer in any sense uniquely God's chosen people. But those facts in no way indicate that the Abrahamic blood-line became accursed.
Israel was hardened "in part" in the Last Days. (Rom. 11:25) It was through the world-changing, Last-Days work of the Holy Spirit that the "firstfruit" remnant of Israel was saved, (Rom. 11:5,16) and that "the fulness of the gentiles" was brought into Israel, (Rom. 11:25) and that the pre-Cross saints ("the dead" / "all Israel") were resurrected. (Rom. 11:15,26,28) All were gathered together at the Parousia of Christ and united into one eternal, spiritual, resurrected Body. (Rom. 11:26)
In the ages before the Advent of the Son, God's people were not only separated from Him (as the animal sacrifices testified) and separated from each other (the divided kingdoms of Israel and Judah) and separated from the unclean, gentile world, but wars with each other and wars with gentiles, and ultimately Death itself, separated every son of the kingdom from the worship of the Father.
Through the power of the Cross of Christ, those "old things" of "tears," "death," "sorrow," "outcry" and "pain" passed away in the end of the age. (Rev. 21:4) In His Parousia, the historic kingdom was transformed. It was changed from having been a worldly, hand-made kingdom that embodied Condemnation (separation), Sin and Death (Heb. 9:1,11,24), to being the God-made Kingdom "from out of Heaven" (II Cor. 5:2; Rev. 21:2,10) in which all the elect, the living and the dead, Jew and gentile, were united and made alive in Christ, never again to be separated from God or from each other.
Now all the saints are granted free and equal access to the throne of grace, through faith in the Son. (Heb. 7:12) Now all the saints are "priests of God." (I Peter 2:5,9; Rev. 1:6; 5:10) Now all the saints worship Him "face to Face." (I Cor. 13:12; Rev. 22:4) Now all the saints are One in Christ. (Jn. 17:11-23; I Thess. 5:10)
The Church, which Israel's Messiah bought with His own blood, was not the replacement or condemnation of biblical Israel. (Jn. 3:17) It was its fulfillment. Christ's Kingdom today is the full and perfect realization of the hope and goal of Old-Testament Israel.
 
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parousia70

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GG_81 said:
It's really quite simple GG.

If we were to take "literally" each time the Bible prophesied a judgement in which the langauge depicts global, even universal catyclism, we'd be forced to conclude that the heavens and earth have been completely destroyed at least half a dozen times so far in biblical history.
 
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Hidden Manna

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parousia70 said:
It's really quite simple GG.

If we were to take "literally" each time the Bible prophesied a judgement in which the langauge depicts global, even universal catyclism, we'd be forced to conclude that the heavens and earth have been completely destroyed at least half a dozen times so far in biblical history.

Hi Parousia70,

This would be interesting to show and prove to futurists. Would you have the proof on a old artical hidden away?
 
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