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Preterism, both full & partial, are false.

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With that said, ANY doctrines of Preterism, whether partial, full, hyper, reformed, etc. are NOT biblical because the Lord did NOT talk about Titus or 70AD.
Actually, yes, Christ did speak about that coming catastrophic era in which God would exact vengeance against those who killed His Son. In the thinly-veiled parable which Christ spoke to the Pharisees about God as the "king" who sent out "His armies" to "destroy those murderers, and to burn up their city" (Matthew 22:7), the Pharisees were well aware that Christ was speaking about them in His parables (Matthew 21:45).

Also, in Luke 20, Christ gave a parable against the chief priests and scribes who in the parable were the cruel husbandmen in the vineyard who persecuted and slew the owner's servants, and finally murdered the owner's own Son. These cruel husbandmen would be destroyed, and the vineyard given to others. Again, the chief priests knew very well that this parable was spoken in condemnation of themselves (Luke 20:19). The AD 66-70 era composed the "days of vengeance" in which God destroyed that generation which had rejected their own prophesied Messiah. Upon the destruction of that "wicked generation", God gave the "vineyard" to others who would render to Him the fruits in their season.
 
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seekingHiswisdom

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With that said, ANY doctrines of Preterism, whether partial, full, hyper, reformed, etc. are NOT biblical because the Lord did NOT talk about Titus or 70AD.
As a non-preterist I have one question to ask you about this statement of yours.

Did Jesus not mention Daniel's Abomination of Desolation. You cannot charge him with no mention of 70AD because he did not give dates for anything. And AOD came in 70AD.....

So this arguement is a non starter to me. for a charge against the varied preterisms... and their doctrines.
 
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oikonomia

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7 Behold, he cometh...and every eye shall see him(the Gentiles), AND they ALSO which pierced Him(the Jews/Israel-John 19:6-8 ): and ALL KINDREDS of the earth shall wail because of Him. Even so, Amen. Revelation 1:7
The Recovery Version has Rev. 1:7

Behold, He comes with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the land will mourn over Him. Yes, amen.
 
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Oseas

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Matthew 24:21-22 and 29-30
21
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except THESE DAYS days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake THESE DAYS shall be shortened.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of THESE DAYS shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light(Revelation 9:1-2. Time of extreme danger. What will happen with the woman in THESE DAYS?-Revelation 12:1), and the stars shall fall from heaven(Revelation 12:4),
and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:(2Peter 3:10-12)
30 And THEN shall appear the SIGN of the Son of man in heaven(heaven???Ephesians 1:3 and Philippians 3:20-21): and then shall
all the TRIBES of the earth mourn (12 tribes, i.e. Israel, the clay, the dry land), and they shall see the Son of man coming...with power and great glory.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Revelation 11:15 to 18


15 - The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD (world of Devil) are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. (Revelation 5:10 combined with Matthew 5:5) --> The angel of the Lord JESUS said to John: Rev. 5:10 - 10 And hast made us unto our GOD kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. Matthew 5:5 - JESUS said: Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

16 - And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped GOD,

17 - Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

18 -And the nations were(will be) angry...-->Yeah, the nations will be angry/will be wrathed...there will be WAR=-Rev.13:4. (Remember: Revelation 21:8 - 8 But the fearful(THE COWARDS), and idolaters, and all liars, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.)

... and thy wrath is come(GOD's WRATH), and the time of the dead, that they should be Judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Get ready

Furthermore, JESUS warned: At midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out TO MEET him-Matthew 25:6. Who's going?

See, IT'S NOT ENOUGH to just have lamp-the Word of GOD-a lamp for the feet-Psalm 119:105; It's necessary also to have oil, otherwise the lamp will go out. The lamp of many people has already gone out for good, but at midnight? In full darkness and terrors by night? Terrible, very terrible.

Understand, MIDNIGHT as the Lord said, it indicates the END of a Day (end of a millennium) and the beginning of a new Day (beginning of a new millennium) simultaneously. (By the way, the sixth Day-GOD's Day-has ended very recently. The lamp of many people has already gone out for good, By the way, the six Days of seven GOD's Days, it has ended very recently. The seventh and last Day arrived).

It is necessary to understand that GOD's clock does not stop, yeah, never stop, every thousand years there is a turn of Day at GOD's clock, understand? As happened in Eden-Genesis 3:8-10- and GOD found Adam and Eve completely naked, the clothe they made from the FigTree, one among other trees in the Garden, it was not enough to cover them from their nakedness. GOD needed to make an appropriate garment for that purpose, understand?Genesis 3:21

By the way, JESUS said through the book of Revelation, chap. 16: v.15: Behold, I come like a thief, Blessed is he that watches, and keeps his garments, lest he WALK NAKED, and they see his shame.

Get ready
 
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TribulationSigns

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Daniel’s AoD of Daniel 9:27 AND the Holy Place have nothing to do with physical temple in 70AD. Christ didn’t need to give the date. It will only reveal to those “whosever reads, let him understand”. Understanding comes with spiritual discernment not comparing with the writing of non~Christian’s books or world history. Selah.
 
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Berean Tim

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Jesus left the Temple after he answered. Then went to the Mount of Olives where he taught on the end of the age and the signs which signal the end. The main one was the AoD which didn't happen in 70AD
 
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Jesus left the Temple after he answered. Then went to the Mount of Olives where he taught on the end of the age and the signs which signal the end. The main one was the AoD which didn't happen in 70AD
You're right, it was not in AD 70. Daniel 12:11's predicted AOD of "Jerusalem surrounded by armies" (Luke 21:20) occurred in late AD 66 as a result of the Zealot's rebellion launched against Rome a bit earlier in that same season of the year. This is why Peter in 1 Peter 4:7 writing around AD 67 (just before his martyrdom) said that "the end of all things is AT HAND" (meaning it was presently in progress at the time).
 
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oikonomia

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If your point is that "these days" proves this great tribulation was a current event as Jesus spoke, I can't believe that.
Who can argue though that tribulation of one sort or another has been upon God's people in every age?
While I consider checking the language as an upcoming little project, I'll comment on your other paragraphs
There are twelve hundred and sixty very significant days following the rapture of the manchild from the Bright Woman in Revelation 12.

And she brought forth a son, a man-child, who is to shepherd all the nations with an iron rod; and her child was caught up to God and to His throne. And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place there prepared by God so that they might nourish her there a thousand two hundred and sixty days. (Rev. 12:5,6)

This is the resurrection and rapture of a remnant of overcoming saints accumulated in Paradise. They died for their obedience to God and Christ.
And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, and they loved not their soul-life even unto death. (Rev. 12:11)

Verse 12 has no other logical referrent besides the manchild who was caught up to God's throne in verse 5.
And she brought forth a son, a man-child, who is to shepherd all the nations with an iron rod; and her child was caught up to God and to His throne. (v.5)

So the chapter shows that following the resurrection and rapture of a corporate group of overcoming saints called "the manchild" the majority of still living saints are intensely persecuted by Satan for three and one half years.

I believe the theory you are suggesting is that Christ was raptured to Heaven immediately upon birth, and either Mary or Israel was then
persecuted by Satan as she fled to some wilderness.

We can talk about this more if you have some further response on
Revelation 12.
I don't doubt that Preteristically you surely can find SOME troublesome period of 3.5 years in church history in the past.
I would definitely teach that this vision is prophecy YET to be fulfilled.


Yet to happen is the powers of the cosmos to be shaken, and the tribes of the Holy Land to see Jesus coming finally at the right hand of the power of God. Ephesians 1:3 is wonderful as is Philippians 3:20-21. And well should Christians heed all such passages to our advantage.

They don't demonstrate that the prophecy of Mathew 24 is already completely fulfilled.
I do not believe the seventh trumpet has sounded yet. And the pronoucement of Revelation 11:15-18 are at the sounding of the seventh trumpet.

Verse 15 - And the seventh angel trumpeted; and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ, and He will reign forever and ever

We would have to have more discussion about Matthew chapter 5. Basically "the kingdom of the heavens" has a portion that is REAL within but not yet manifested during the church age. Those who live in this reality, under God's administration, will be rewarded when the HIDDEN
aspect of being under His government is MANIFESTED. Both stages are considered the kingdom of the heavens.


The so-called Sermon on the Mount of Matthew 5 - 7 conscerns the promises of eventual reward to those who live in the reality of the kingdom.
Because of their faithfulness they will be rewarded and shine supernaturally like the sun, with glorified bodies when the kingdom is manifested at the end of the age.

Here we see this manifestation of glorified rewardees in that kingdom after the second coming of Jesus.
The Son of Man will send His angels, and they will collect out of His kingdom all the stumbling blocks and those who practice lawlessness,
And will cast them into the furnace of fire. In that place there will be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth.
Then the righteous will shine forth like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. (Matt. 13:41-43a)

At that time the meek will inherit the planet. The meek are those who through the church age meekly left their vindication up to God.
They did not resist or fight back to the world's persecution. They lived highest levels of righteousness, beyond hypocrisy in the reality of God's
inward government. Their righteousness exceeded that of the scribes and Pharisees.

Matthew 5:20 - For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall by no means enter into the kingdom of the heavens.

They are promised that their standing in the reality of God's government will one day be rewarded by the open manifestation of their reigning as co-kings in the millennium.

Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. (5:5)
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied. (5.6)
Blessed are those who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of the heavens. (5:10)
Blessed are you when they reproach and persecute you, and while speaking lies, say every evil thing against you because of Me. (5:11)

Rejoice and exult, for your reward is great in the heavens; for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you. (5:12)

"[Y]our reward is great in the heavens"
does not mean they go to heaven for a great reward forever.
It means the origin of their reward to inherit the earth is secured for them in Heaven.

We are NOW still in the church age as I write this post. And it is now that those serious about God's kingdom hunger and thirst to live righteously, mourn over the sinful situation of the world, and suffer meekly in anticipation of ultimate divine vindication when Christ comes.
Then the kingdoms of the world will become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ.

Sorry to be verbose. Thankyou for reading up to this point. There could be much more to say.
16 - And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped GOD,
These 24 elders are not the elders of Israel or the elders of the Christian church. They are the elders of the universe. They are the eldest of the creatures God created - ancient angels. But this is another little discussion.

I think your point is to uphold a Preterist interpretation of prophecies ?
17 - Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
This is what they WILL be saying at the sounding of the last trumpet, the seventh trumpet in Revelation 11.
This has not happened yet.
This is all well and good that Revelation 21 speaks of things pertaining to the age FOLLOWING the thousand year millennial time.
Revelation 21,22 pertain to the age of the new heaven and new earth.

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and the sea is no more.
And I saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. (Rev. 21:1,2)


Look outside. As pleasant as much of this current earth and heaven are it is NOT YET that we see this new heaven and new earth.
But we have prophecy that it is a final eternal age in which righteousness dwells in the new universe.


But according to His promise we are expecting new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells. (2 Pet. 3:13)

We as we speak are still in the old heaven and old earth EXPECTING and HASTENING the coming of that time by our living righteously under God's daministration. I wrote song to this I invite you to enjoy even singing along with me.

Expecting and hastening the coming of the day of God, on account of which the heavens, being on fire, will be dissolved, and the elements, burning with intense heat, are to be melted away? (2 Pet. 3:12)

Well here you do seem to indicate a none Preterist viewpoint. You say "Get ready" which I take to mean the events spoken of are future.

Thankyou for the exhortations. Indeed we believers need to heed the parable of the wise and foolish virgins going forth to meet the soon returning Bridegroom Christ.

I am not sure how you use this to believe this return of the Bridegroom pertains to (after the thousand year millennium ??)

At any rate to soverly consider being prepared to meet Him whenever He calls is a win / win admonition.

Comments below this I do not copy and remark on at this time. Thankyou for your labors.
I would say something about Revelation 1:6.

And made us a kingdom, priests to His God and Father, to Him be the glory and the might forever and ever. Amen. (Rev. 1:6)

I am all for viewing this as something accomplished already in the eyes of God.
I take it like the use of PAST TENSE in the major steps in God's full salvation in Romans 8:29-30.

Because those whom He foreknew, [past tense] He also predestinated [past tense] to be conformed [past tense] to the image of His Son, that He might be the Firstborn among many brothers; And those whom He predestinated [past tense], these He also called [past tense]; and those whom He called, these He also justified [past tense]; and those whom He justified, these He also glorified [past tense].

From God's transcendent to time viewpoint it is all past tense and has already all be accomplished.
In faith we ought to see it often the same way. So with Revelation 1:6. We have been made this kingdom of priests.
Surely, there is the mighty priesthood of all believers in the church age, if we would see it.

And such priests will reign on earth when the inherit the earth.

And they sing a new song, saying: You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, for You were slain and have purchased for God by Your blood men out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
And have made them a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign on the earth. (Rev. 5:9,10)


I want you to know that I appreciated your devotional and exhortation aspect of your post.
I appreciate the endevour not only to be doctrinally right but minister healthy admonitions such as to "get ready," etc.
 
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Oseas

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I highlighted because who realy pierced JESUS was the Jews specifically, the followers of the demon Barabbas-John chapter 19- , not the Gentiles. The translation does not make this real distinction

By the way, my Lord JESUS came unto His own, and His own received Him not. The sentence my Lord JESUS determined by written against them -Matthew 23:33-35 and mainly Matthew 21:42-46, will fulfill LITERALLY from now on. Woe of them.
 
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Oseas

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If your point is that "these days" proves this great tribulation was a current event as Jesus spoke, I can't believe that.
What can I say? Well, the same JESUS said: Matt.24:15 -
(whoso readeth, let him understand

Remember that before the tribulation, comes first a period of sorrows: JESUS listed them-Matthew 24:3-8. The questions of the disciples of the Lord unto Him were:

1 - what would be the signs of the END of the world?

2 - and what will be the signs of your COMING?

JESUS listed the follow happenings as the beginning of the END of this world of Devil, and also the signs of His coming, and it will be a time of great sorrows, as follows:
- 1- Appearance and manifestation of false Christs/messiah ;
- 2- Wars and rumours of war ;
- 3- nation shall rise against nation ;
- 4- and kingdom against kingdom; (Kingdom of GOD X Kingdom of Devil - Revelation 11:15 and 12:7-12- Take a look.) ;
- 5- famines ;
- 6- pestilences ; and
- 7- earthquakes in divers places.
- 8- all these are the beginning of sorrows in THESE current time.
Who can argue though that tribulation of one sort or another has been upon God's people in every age?
Scriptures explain Scriptures. What does the Word of GOD say? The Word is GOD, understand? It is Self-executing in time foredetermined. By the way, believe you or not, the list above from JESUS about the END of the world, and MAINLY as the signal of His coming, they are already running currently.
As soon as this current period of sorrows ends, the Tribulation will begin in after pain, and will last until the end of this world, as JESUS said.
Triulation is at door, be sure that it must occur in continuation as soon as this started period of sorrows ends.
While I consider checking the language as an upcoming little project, I'll comment on your other paragraphs
Feel free.

I want you to know that I appreciated your devotional and exhortation aspect of your post.
I appreciate the endevour not only to be doctrinally right but minister healthy admonitions such as to "get ready," etc.
What I must say is: GOD blesses you.

Get ready is an allert / a notice about the current moment we are living or will live henceafter, by the way, spiritually speaking it is midnight, it is a time of dense darkness and very dangerous, anyway we have to be awake.

Note:
I would like to clarify that English is not my native language, so I have difficulties to develop a response to an extensive post, in addition to the language, and interpreting Scriptures, discerning, and preparing a response with great care, requires a lot from me, so this reply for you is very short, but the joy of the Lord is our strength.

May our Lord GOD bless and keep us, and give us His protection
Amen.
 
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oikonomia

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These expressions point to a future time from which He then spoke.
For many will come in My name, saying, I am the Christ, and they will lead many astray - "WILL come" (v.5)
For nation will rise up against nation, "WILL rise" (v.7)
there will be famines and earthquakes "WILL be" (v.7)

Likewise -
Then they will deliver you (v.9)
and will kill you, and you will be hated by all the nations (v.9)
many will be stumbled and will deliver up one another and will hate one another. (v.10)
many false prophets will arise and will lead many astray. (v.11)

etc. etc.

My point is that not that none of these have ever happened in the first century.
My point is they are definitely predictions concerning the future when Jesus spoke.

And concerning verse 1, in verse 6 some things are not the end but the BEGINNING of the end.
See that you are not alarmed, for it must happen; but the end is not yet. (v.6)

I may lose your color scheme below. It is not intentional.
I don't think it is a strong argument.
I mean, a rationale that all the things of predicted in Matt. 24 are all in the past to today.

Of course from the beginning of man being upon the earth there has been "tribulation" of one sort or another.
Scriptures explain Scriptures.
And readers interpret Scriptures.
What does the Word of GOD say?
Wonderful things! Many things.
And men interpret these things oft in various contradictical ways.
We're glad they read them though.
The Word is GOD, understand?
I understand that the letter kills but the Spirit gives life. (2 Cor. 3:6)
I understand that when we come to the Scriptures we ought to simultaneously not fail to come to the living Jesus too.

You search the Scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is these that testify concerning Me.
Yet you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life (John 5:39,40)


Now I have confidence you seek the Lord Jesus also in the word.
And He returns with a name written upon Him -
"the Word of God" (Rev. 19:16)
We love Him, don't we?

It is Self-executing in time foredetermined. By the way, believe you or not, the list above from JESUS about the END of the world, and MAINLY as the signal of His coming, they are already running currently.
I think I am not sure I am getting your ideas.

Triulation is at door, be sure that it must occur in continuation as soon as this started period of sorrows ends.

Feel free.
I am not sure I understand what you are teaching.
I showed previously (or tried to) that the rapture of the Manchild in Revelation 12 is followed by the three and one half year great tribulation.
Now I will say that the 3.5 year tribulation is CAUSED by the rapture of the Manchild of overcoming believers.

1.) The plural pronouns "THEY" and "THEIR" and "THEM" refer to the raptured to the throne a collective body of believers.

And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, Now has come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ, for the accuser of our brothers has been cast down, who accuses them before our God day and night.
And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, and they loved not their soul-life even unto death. (Rev. 12:10,11)


2.) The rapture of these "brothers" as collective remnant out from the total of God's people is the CAUSE of the start of the great tribulalation.

Therefore be glad, O heavens and those who dwell in them. Woe to the earth and the sea because the devil has come down to you and has great rage, knowing that he has only a short time.
And when the dragon saw that he was cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who brought forth the man-child. (Rev. 12:12,13)


The rapture of the Manchild was the catalyst that caused the church's servants, the angels, to drive Satan down from his activity of appearing before God to accuse God's people day and night (as in the book of Job).

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels went to war with the dragon. And the dragon warred and his angels.
And they did not prevail, neither was their place found any longer in heaven.
And the great dragon was cast down, the ancient serpent, he who is called the Devil and Satan, he who deceives the whole inhabited earth; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast down with him. (Rev. 12:7-9)

So the early pre-tribulation rapture of a remnant of both living then, and deceased overcomers, is the trigger that forces Satan to
be restricted to the surface of the earth. He then realizes he has only a short time left. And he unleashes all his ultimate fury.
This is a factor to the intensity of that short time of three and one half year great tribulation.

This has not happened yet. This is not to say accusation, persecution, trial, and tribulation have not been
felt by the saints throughout each age.

What I must say is: GOD blesses you.
Amen. He blesses us with Himself. He imparts Himself into those who receive Christ.
Christ is the all-inclusive blessing of God living in man.

When critical mass of both living ones and deceased ones is reached, though it is not the total church, it will be a catalyst for
the end times to come. Rapture is therefore not merely escape. Rapture is a strategic move in the great spiritual warfare.
Living overcomers as a remnant are seen raptured as Firstfruits in Revelation 14.
Deceased overcomer as a past remnant are seen raptured as Manchild in Revelation 12.

Get ready is an allert / a notice about the current moment we are living or will live henceafter, by the way, spiritually speaking it is midnight, it is a time of dense darkness and very dangerous, anyway we have to be awake.
Amen. And we have to be filled up with Christ. He must spread His life out into our soul and build a Gideon's small army like
spearhead to bring about the changing of the age.
I also require much time for discussion with you.
My native tongue is English.
But I read carefully your points though some of them I am not sure I get.

The Lord be with your spirit.
And converse further if necessary. I'll read it.
 
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Berean Tim

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Jesus said "when you see the AoD standing in the Holy place". Rome didn't have the Temple until 70AD. 2nd Thess 2 Paul says the AC (man of sin) sits in the Temple declaring he is god
 
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Jesus said "when you see the AoD standing in the Holy place". Rome didn't have the Temple until 70AD. 2nd Thess 2 Paul says the AC (man of sin) sits in the Temple declaring he is god
Rome in the person of Cestius Gallus was indeed in contact with the gates of the temple in Jerusalem in October AD 66. His troops were in the process of undermining the temple wall and were prepared to burn the temple gate when Gallus, for no valid reason whatever, decided to withdraw his army and leave the city (Wars 2:19.535-540). Josephus wrote that Gallus and his Roman troops could have taken the city at that point if he had pressed his advantage. Gallus essentially snatched defeat from the jaws of victory, and his retreating troops suffered a humiliating defeat by the Zealot armies who pursued them to Beth-horon.

It was at that time when the Roman soldiers were about to burn the temple gate that many in Jerusalem ran from the city, anticipating that it was about to be taken by the Romans (Wars 2.19.6). This was merely a fulfillment of Christ's warning for them to flee the city when they saw (the AOD) "Jerusalem surrounded by armies" standing in the Holy place (which was the whole temple complex, including its perimeter). Gallus's illogical retreat from Jerusalem at that point gave them this brief opportunity to do just that.

But before this all happened, the single individual called The Antichrist had already made his appearance in Jerusalem's temple in early AD 66, presenting himself as the "king of the Jews" by dressing himself in King Herod's royal garments stolen from Masada. For this Zealot leader Menahem to "exalt himself" by presenting himself in the role of the "king of the Jews" - this was a title strictly reserved for the prophesied Messiah - Christ Jesus. Menahem at that point in early AD 66 was attempting to present himself as being Daniel's "Messiah the Prince" as the "king of the Jews", according to Josephus's description of Menahem's actions in the temple in Wars 2.17.8-9.
 
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seekingHiswisdom

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Differences in perception of interpretations. again.

And again... LOL... I disagree.

In Matthew 27, the tearing of the veil was accompanied by an earthquake, rocks splitting, and graves opened with resurrected people walking around the city.

But let us not look at our modern day translations of that fateful moment.

English/Greek Interlinear says. ( any bolding is mine for emphasis or importance.)

Mathew 27: 50 -
50 And Jesus again having cried in a voice loud yielded up [His] spirit.

51 And behold the veil of the temple was torn from top to bottom and into two and the earth was shaken and the rocks were split

52 and the tombs were opened and many bodies of the having fallen asleep saints arose

53 and having gone forth out of the tombs after the ressurection of Him they entered into the holy city and appeared to many

54 - And the centurion and those with him keeping guard over - Jesus having seen the earthquake and the things taking place feared greatly saying Truly God's Son was this

WHERE DOES IT SAY THE CENTURIAN SAW THE VEIL BEING TORN? Obviously they saw what was going on and translators and commentators assumed.

OR

Marks leaving out key points would seemingly open up the tearing of the veil.... cause without the earthquake and walking dead just a storm would not allow for the change in attitude

In Matthew 27, the tearing of the veil was accompanied by an earthquake, rocks splitting, and graves opened with resurrected people walking around the city. The Roman centurion in charge of guarding Jesus said, "This is truly the Son of God!" Mark 15 is almost the same but left out the earthquake and resurrected dead.

Interlinear:

Mark 15
37 - But Jesus having uttered a loud cry breathed His last

38 And the veil of the temple was torn into two from top to bottem

39 Having seen then the Centurion- standing from the opposite of Him that thus He breathed His last
(Note... this Centurion saw Jesus breath his last. He was not looking toward the temple)
he said Truly this - [man] the Son of God was

So now lets look back to the actual veil and which was torn.

It should be clearly understood the tearing of the veil at the moment of Jesus' death dramatically symbolized that His sacrifice, the shedding of His own blood, was a sufficient atonement for our (believers) sins.

The importance was It signified that now the way into the Holy of Holies was open for all people, for all time, both Jew and Gentile.


Josephus does not write of the veil of the temple destroyed in 70AD but in case you are curious here is a link to a little light reading from Josephus Complete Works


Chapter 6 covers the tabernacle specifics which Moses built in the wilderness.

Now I personally see no problem with the double veil as described above.


With a grandeur that has been described of the temple.... WHY NOT two curtains.

Hung 18" apart? That is barely enough room for a person to pass through, if that were their intent... without
brushing against both and especially the Holy of Holies side.

The outer curtain was drawn up (or as they describe looped) on the south side... and the Holy of Holies side was
looped up on the north.

This kept a complete privacy from anyone able to view into the Holy of Holies.....

I visualize this like being similar to a double stage curtain (if you are familiar).

BUT IF YOU CHOSE TO STOP READING NOW.... (I understand)... One QUESTION

Is it not possible that since both veils were to keep the Holy of Holies private and no one but the appointed priest could see or enter... isn't it just possible that both were torn in half giving access to to the space God once occupied to all...?

Here is a little more info I just found......….. emphasis mine




And if you want more : Hebrews 9:3 Commentaries: Behind the second veil there was a tabernacle which is called the Holy of Holies,

 
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7 Behold, he cometh...and every eye shall see him(the Gentiles), AND they ALSO which pierced Him(the Jews/Israel-John 19:6-8 ): and ALL KINDREDS of the earth shall wail because of Him. Even so, Amen. Revelation 1:7
But AD70 was not where people saw him.
 
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Access into heaven's Holy of Holies and God's presence was not possible until Christ had bodily resurrected AND ASCENDED that day. This was the point when Christ was consecrated by God as our Great High Priest. It was not possible for mankind to enter God's presence without Christ having FIRST become their legal representative and intercessory High Priest after the deathless order of Melchizedek.

The Holy of Holies did not become accessible for mankind at Christ's death. It was made accessible once God accepted Christ's blood sacrifice sprinkled in heaven's temple as His first act as High Priest in heaven. A physically dead Christ lying in the tomb was not what finished accomplishing the terms of our salvation. It was His resurrection and ascension that accomplished this. "If Christ be not raised, your faith is in vain; ye are yet in your sins." A torn veil or veils over the Holy of holies would not yet have been spiritually fulfilled in real time at Christ's death. It had to be only the outer veil at that point.

And it was more than just the storm which the centurion saw. He witnessed the sun darkened for 3 hours, the earthquake, Christ's loud cry, the rocks broken for the tombs, and the torn temple veil. All these things caused the centurion to marvel after witnessing them from his position on the head of the Mount of Olives where the crucifixion was taking place.
 
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seekingHiswisdom

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There is one other thing you might include with your explanations here.

In AD66 when Gallus, for no valid reason whatever, decided to withdraw his army and leave the city seems to be of importance because the Temple Destruction was done 40 years after the crucifixion. That would need to be AD70
And a valid reason why Gaillus backed off.... most likely by divine internention.

The number 40 ( as with many others) held importance.

The number 40 symbolizes the period of preparing for something new and fundamentally different. It is also seen as a period of testing man's heart. From what I can find in scripture, it symbolizes testing, but never unduly. There is always an end to the test, and God is always in the midst of the test.

Here are some examples:

  • The rains fell in Noah’s day for 40 days and nights (Genesis 7:4)
  • Israel ate manna and wandered in the wilderness for 40 years (Exodus 16:35)
  • Moses was with God on the mountain, 40 days and nights, without eating bread or water (Exodus 24:18, 34:28)
  • The spies searched the land of Canaan for 40 days (Numbers 13:25)
  • 40 lashes (stripes) was the maximum whipping penalty (Deuteronomy 25:3)
  • God allowed the land to rest for 40 years (Judges 3:11, 5:31, 8:28)
  • Abdon, a judge in Israel, had 40 sons (Judges 12:14)
  • Israel did evil; God gave them to an enemy for 40 years (Judges 13:1)
  • Eli judged Israel for 40 years (1 Samuel 4:18)
  • Goliath presented himself to Israel for 40 days (1 Samuel 17:16)
  • Saul reigned for 40 years (Acts 13:21)
  • Ishbosheth (Saul’s son) was 40 years old when he began to reign (2 Samuel 2:10)
  • David reigned over Israel for 40 years (2 Samuel 5:4, 1 Kings 2:11)
  • Solomon reigned the same length as his father, 40 years (1 Kings 11:42)
  • The holy place of the temple was 40 cubits long (1 Kings 6:17)
  • Elijah had one meal that gave him strength for 40 days (1 Kings 19:8)
  • Ezekiel bore the iniquity of the house of Judah for 40 days (Ezekiel 4:6)
  • Joash reigned 40 years in Jerusalem (2 Kings 12:1)
  • Egypt to be laid desolate for 40 years (Ezekiel 29:11-12)
  • God gave Ninevah 40 days to repent (Jonah 3:4)
  • Jesus fasted 40 days and nights (Matthew 4:2)
  • Jesus was tempted 40 days (Luke 4:2, Mark 1:13)
  • Jesus remained on earth 40 days after the resurrection (Acts 1:3)
 
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Yep, I agree with the number 40 representing a period of testing, which figures heavily in scripture's accounts, just as you have listed above. I guess it would then depend on where you pin the beginning and ending point of that 40 years. Why not 40 years from Christ's first coming in AD 30 (for His public ministry) until His second coming? In other words, from the time Christ announced "The time is fulfilled and the kingdom is at hand; repent ye and believe the gospel" up until Christ came again in His kingdom? Wouldn't that have given the Jews an opportunity of 40 years trial period to repent and believe before the power of the holy people was shattered?

And I agree with you that was most definitely "divine intervention" which caused Gallus to withdraw from Jerusalem for no logical reason whatever. That October AD 66 flight from Jerusalem was just before the winter rainy season set in also, just as Christ had told the disciples to pray for that very thing when they would be fleeing Judea for the mountains.
 
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Yes, perfect. "These expressions point to a future time from which He then spoke". But when will these events occur? In the time of the END, i.e. in the END of THIS CURRENT WORLD.
JESUS answered two questions of His disciples, about two distincts EVENTS:

1 - What will be the SIGNS of the END of the WORLD? and
2 - What will be the SIGNS of His COMING?


Everything that JESUS spoke in Matthew 24 is exclusively linked with the END OF THE WORLD, and with the EVENTS of His COMING, nothing of that events JESUS listed, and I quoted in my post before, happened before this current time of the END of the world in which we are living, and still studying His preaching, and talking about them.

In other words, the STANDARD for comparing the times of the END of this WORLD and the respectives EVENTS linked to them as signs of JESUS's coming, it is what JESUS said, of course, in response unto His disciples.
I don't think it is a strong argument.
I mean, a rationale that all the things of predicted in Matt. 24 are all in the past to today.
Of course from the beginning of man being upon the earth there has been "tribulation" of one sort or another.
What I posted before was not argumentative, but a description of the prophecies of JESUS linked to the END of this WORLD, and the EVENTS of His coming, in response to the questions of His disciples.
In fact, there are two distinct scenary, but interconnected - END OF THE WORLD and COMING OF JESUS. This is how I see the environment on Earth would say in the next last 10 or 7 years (regressive count) of the current Devil's world (7 is within 10).

By the way, except misinterpretation of mine, it seems here you contradict yourself in what you said above, when you say the events are future, what is true and fit with the prophecies of our Lord.
The most important now is to go meeting JESUS - Matthew 25:1 to 13 -, He is approaching each day past, He is nearer, and the END of this world and His coming is at door.

The STANDARD of comparison is the speech of JESUS: i.e. END OF THIS WORLD, times of the end; times of the Apocalypse, nothing but nothing that He said happened before this current apocalyptic time, evidently. And Paul Apostle said: 1Corinthians 15:24-27 -

24 The END cometh, when JESUS shall have delivered up the Kingdom to GOD(Daniel 2:44-45), even the Father; when He shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For He must reign, till He hath put all enemies under His feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For He hath put all things under His feet. But when He saith all things are put under Him, it is manifest that He is excepted, which did put all things under Him.


What you just commented above refer to the time of Apocalypse, that is the current time of the END of this world. Remember what JESUS said:
Except those(these) days should be shortened(for JESUS 2.000 yers ago, those, for us, these), there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. Behold, I have told you before. Matt.24:22 & 25
Amen. He blesses us with Himself. He imparts Himself into those who receive Christ.
Christ is the all-inclusive blessing of God living in man.
Tthat is why Jesus prayed to the Father, saying: John 17:11 & 21-
11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be One, as we are.
21 That they all may be One; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be One in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

Amen.
 
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