Preterism and Christ's Return

[FreeinChrist]

Then why did you anser no?

Are the Jews the only ones brought "through fire" in the course of history? No.
In this dispensation of the church, some Christians are brought 'through fire', their works will be burned up but they are saved, as though through fire - as a verse that I posted already says.

But in regards to Zechariah 12-14, I believe this is a prophecy about national Israel, and the city of Jerusalem - specifically during the tribulation period. It is not about the church. And the end result of this prophecy is the redemption of Israel and the world worshipping the Saviour.

Zec 14:16 Then it will come about that any who are left of all the nations that went against Jerusalem will go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to celebrate the Feast of Booths.
Zec 14:17 And it will be that whichever of the families of the earth does not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, there will be no rain on them.
Zec 14:18 If the family of Egypt does not go up or enter, then no {rain will fall} on them; it will be the plague with which the LORD smites the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Booths.
Zec 14:19 This will be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Booths.
Zec 14:20 In that day there will {be inscribed} on the bells of the horses, "HOLY TO THE LORD." And the cooking pots in the LORD'S house will be like the bowls before the altar.
Zec 14:21 Every cooking pot in Jerusalem and in Judah will be holy to the LORD of hosts; and all who sacrifice will come and take of them and boil in them. And there will no longer be a Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts in that day.

I don't see that this has happened yet. Much of the world does NOT believe in Jesus Christ.


Please make your questions more specific.

 

[FreeinChrist]

Zech 12:11-13:1
11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.
12 And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart;
13 The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart;
14 All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.

CHAPTER 13

1 In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.
(KJV)

Is this yet future?

H

Yes, I believe so. And these references to David and Levi so it is for Israel, not the church. And the events of 12-14 flow together and are in reagrds to "that day" which is used 17 times in the three chapters. And I believe chapter 14 describes the effects and result of the Second coming of Christ.

 

[rebaa]

yes, no, The flipflop dance of dispensationalism.

 

[FreeinChrist]

yes, no, The flipflop dance of dispensationalism.

It is taking scripture within the context it is written - something lacking by others.

Now, in recognizing that Noah did not need to be circumcized, and that Abraham was later required to but was not under Mosiac Law, that the Old Covenant WAS under Mosiac Law, and that we in the New covenant are not - do you see any difference in what God expected of those who are His? What if Abraham had refused to circumcize?

Had Noah received a prophecy that the Messiah would come into a Jerusalem on a donkey, or had he known of Psalm 22? NO. What dispensationists also believe is that God revealed His salvation plan in a progressive manner. Types and pictures, prophecy here, prophecy there - like the Law, as I described above. Then in Jesus, the revelation of His salvation plan is complete. Everything pointed to Him.

 

[rebaa]

It is taking scripture within the context it is written - something lacking by others.

Now, in recognizing that Noah did not need to be circumcized, and that Abraham was later required to but was not under Mosiac Law, that the Old Covenant WAS under Mosiac Law, and that we in the New covenant are not - do you see any difference in what God expected of those who are His? What if Abraham had refused to circumcize?

Had Noah received a prophecy that the Messiah would come into a Jerusalem on a donkey, or had he known of Psalm 22? NO. What dispensationists also believe is that God revealed His salvation plan in a progressive manner. Types and pictures, prophecy here, prophecy there - like the Law, as I described above. Then in Jesus, the revelation of His salvation plan is complete. Everything pointed to Him.

You say above everything pointed to Him ( agreed ) but in your other post you are saying this ____ & _____ has not been completed.

 

[FreeinChrist]

You say above everything pointed to Him ( agreed ) but in your other post you are saying this ____ & _____ has not been completed.

I think you are a gameplayer, rebaa. You make vague insinuations, don't show any backup, and don't really respond to my questions. Reminds me of Pericles.

When you have a point or say something worthwhile, I'll be back.

 

[rebaa]

Pointing out the discrepancies in dispensationalism is not a game. The back up is your own posts . Showing the flipping and flopping over some very basic answers. I directly answered your question, that would be post #53. I am sorry if you think i am vague. Correcting that opinion i will state Scofield and company including DTS are not scriptural.

When you have a point or say something worthwhile, I'll be back.

Consider yourself held to your word.

 

[FreeinChrist]

Pointing out the discrepancies in dispensationalism is not a game. The back up is your own posts . Showing the flipping and flopping over some very basic answers. I directly answered your question, that would be post #53.

Contrary to your opinion, you did not back up yourself. Nor do you take scripture within the context it is written.

Nor will you give an honest answer to this question - since Noah did not have to get circumcized, and Abraham did not have the Levitical preisthood, but those after Moses did until Christ, and we now do not have to be physically circumcized - did God have different 'rules' in the course of history? Different expectations of man? Will you give an honest yes?

And I also pointed out that God revealed His salvation plan progressively until Christ - but perhaps you think Noah knew all the details?

I am sorry if you think i am vague. Correcting that opinion i will state Scofield and company including DTS are not scriptural.

I think you are rather flip, ask vague questons that show a lack of taking scripture within context, and not the least interested in really understanding classic dispensationism.
It is okay if you think dispensationism is unscriptural. I won't say what I think of views like preterism.

Consider yourself held to your word.

Well, you didn't make a point, but I responded this time anyway. IF you truly want to understand dispensationism, I gave you some sites.
Otherwise I am not interested in games like this.

 

[rebaa]

God have different 'rules' in the course of history?

Yup HE did but funny thing He has had ‘rules’in the course of history but that is contrary to dispensational teaching. Man has been obliged to obey HIS rules all through history.

Here are the filpflopping quotes i underline the flipping points these are not complete quotes ....

Flip

...I do not believe that any future sacrifices that are done by Israel, without recognizing who Jesus Christ is (Saviour, son of God, part of the Trinity) are ordained by God

Flop

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. While dispies believe that Israel will build a temple and restart sacrifices, which will be interupted in the middle of the 70th week of Daniel, they are not sacrifices that are ordained by God. Those sacrifices will do nothing at all for them. their only salvation is recognizing WHO Jesus is - the Son of God who died for our sins. When they turn to Christ, then the Second Coming occurs. According to Zechariah 13, 1/3 come "through the fire".


Flip

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. While dispies believe that Israel will build a temple and restart sacrifices, which will be interupted in the middle of the 70th week of Daniel, they are not sacrifices that are ordained by God. Those sacrifices will do nothing at all for them. their only salvation is recognizing WHO Jesus is - the Son of God who died for our sins. When they turn to Christ, then the Second Coming occurs. According to Zechariah 13, 1/3 come "through the fire".


flop

No. I quoted from Zechariah about Jeusalem, specifically:
Zec 13:8 "It will come about in all the land," Declares the LORD, "That two parts in it will be cut off {and} perish; But the third will be left in it.
Zec 13:9 "And I will bring the third part through the fire, Refine them as silver is refined, And test them as gold is tested. They will call on My name, And I will answer them; I will say, 'They are My people,' And they will say, 'The LORD is my God.' "
Taken in the context of Zechariah 12-14, I believe that this is a future event, and not fulfilled in 70 AD. For one, this did't happen: .


flip

Yes, I believe so. Especially if you first consider the whole book of Zechariah first and then interpret the verses within the context of the whole book.


flip

When you have a point or say something worthwhile, I'll be back
flop
Well, you didn't make a point, but I responded this time anyway. IF you truly want to understand dispensationism, I gave you some sites.
Otherwise I am not interested in games like this..

 

[FreeinChrist]

Yup HE did but funny thing He has had ‘rules’in the course of history but that is contrary to dispensational teaching. Man has been obliged to obey HIS rules all through history.

ahhh ...and right there you show me that you have no clue what dispensationism actually teaches. Making the false insinuation that dispensationism ignores God's rules - shame on you. Deliberately misrepresenting what dispensationism teaches is a form of lying, rebaa.

Sorry, rebaa, but you are choosing to purposely misunderstand what I wrote. That's what a gameplayer does. IF you had a clue about what dispensationism teaches, AND took scripture in the context it is written... then you could understand what I wrote - if you tried, but you won't.

And I note that you can't really answer the question - it isn't whether we need to obey God's rules or not ( and if you really read what I wrote, you'd know that I didn't even question that)...but did His rules of man change between Noah - Abraham and Moses and us?
Can't admit that some of the rules changed???

 

[rebaa]

Can't admit that some of the rules changed??? You read me like you read scripture notice the word "yup" right after your question.

At least this time you didnt say you wouldnt post

 

[Hitch]

Yes, I believe so. And these references to David and Levi so it is for Israel, not the church. And the events of 12-14 flow together and are in reagrds to "that day" which is used 17 times in the three chapters. And I believe chapter 14 describes the effects and result of the Second coming of Christ.

John 19:36-37
36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.
37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.
(KJV)

And that is the 'day' in which there described events take place.


Do you really think you know better than John?

It a rhetorical question, of course you do.

H

 

[Justme]

Hi Free,

You wrote:
and if you really read what I wrote, you'd know that I didn't even question that)...but did His rules of man change between Noah - Abraham and Moses and us?

I don't understand what you are getting at here? We are under a whole new covenant than the others, but I don't think this is what you are talking about...is it?

Justme

 

[Hitch]

and if you really read what I wrote, you'd know that I didn't even question that)...but did His rules of man change between Noah - Abraham and Moses and us?

Out side of a few specifics these men lived and operated under the same Law from the same Source. Moshe's version is more detailed but not different in any substantial way.

Hitch

 

[FreeinChrist]

Hi Free,

You wrote:
and if you really read what I wrote, you'd know that I didn't even question that)...but did His rules of man change between Noah - Abraham and Moses and us?

I don't understand what you are getting at here? We are under a whole new covenant than the others, but I don't think this is what you are talking about...is it?

Justme

Just to clarify, Justme, I responding to this quote from another:
Yup HE did but funny thing He has had ‘rules’in the course of history but that is contrary to dispensational teaching. Man has been obliged to obey HIS rules all through history.
What is untrue in that quote is that dispensationism DOES recognize the rules, and also recognizes how they have changed.
What has always stayed the same is that salvation is by grace through faith, though before christ, it was faith that God would send the future Messiah.
What has changed are the specific rules. Circumcism was not required of Noah or Adam. It was required of Abraham later in life. Abraham was not under the Law as given to Moses. And we are in Christ, spirtually circumcized, and indwelled with the Holy Spirit - unlike those who came before.
God Bless

 

[Justme]

Hi Free,

I hear you and I agree with your last post.

Thanks

Justme