Predestined or open for any who ask?

[Athanasian Creed]

OK cool thanks so much for that response A-Creed.

OK I also understand perfectly that you dont believe God predestines people, but do you think he'd have the right to?

Gracias - Prot

I nowhere, at any time said that God doesn't predestine people. As i said before, predestination is a biblical doctrine. I did, however, say that Calvinism's interpretation of predestination does not line up with the clear teachings of the Word of God.

God can do whatever He wants to - if He chooses to save a few (the 'elect') and damn the rest (reprobates) to a Christless eternity (as Calvinism says He does), it would be perfectly within His right to do so - He is the sovereign God and He "calls the shots" so-to-speak.

Question is, would He do so arbitrarily?? According to His Word, absolutely NOT. It would be contrary to His nature. He is no respecter of persons and His free gift of salvation is available to all, to the "whososever will" - since God love all men equally and since Christ died for all men equally. That man chooses to reject Christ does not thwart God's sovereignty one iota - He is the One who has outlined the plan of salvation and made it possible and He is the One Who has decreed the penalty for those who reject Christ and the blessings for those who come and receive Christ.


Ray

 

[Athanasian Creed]

...
Also if you believe Judas could have been saved, what about prophecy? Does God takes a passive approach to prophecy?

What Judas did in betraying Christ was of His own free will. It was not because God arbitrarily forced Judas to betray Jesus, thereby making Judas a puppet and making God, therefore, the author of sin! God forbid!! In bringing about His purpose and plan, God, in His foreknowledge, knew that Judas would, of his own volition, betray Christ. If Judas had not done so, God would have, again having foreknowledge, brought about the circumstances surrounding the betrayal of Christ using someone else, perhaps at an earlier/later point in time. Same with Pharoah and the children of Israel.


Ray

 

[prophecystudent]

We are not pre-destined for salvation. I believe there is a great deal of error or misunderstanding regarding salvation and who will be saved.

Salvation is available to all who ask for it (assuming they meet the requirements, accept Christ as their personal Savior, etc).

God did not DETERMINE in advance who will be saved. Did He know?

Of course He knew who would accept salvation and who will not. That is not the same as His pre-determination of who will saved. Knowing in advance is not the same as deciding in advance.

God decided, in advance that all who asked for salvation would be saved. That is as far as His pre-determination goes.

Fred

 

[Xelsorsior]

If you take 10 people and put them in a room and have them descibe the events of a 10 second witness thereof, of which all 10 were witness to the exact same event; all 10 will give unto you a different sighting of the said event. This is human nature, to interpret that of what they see, hear, smell and touch. It is no different with The Scriptures. Take one verse, make it say whatever you want it to say. That is where The Spirit comes in, to discern between truth and falsehood. But if you are not Saved, The Spirit is not within you to do the prementioned actions. As it were, your Salvation is between you and God, The Spirit and through Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior. No man can come unto The Father, except through Me, (Jesus Christ)
Many Scriptural quotes can be cited to defend both sides of this question, but for knowledge to those who wish to gain, may only be achieved by those who are Saved and have the Spirit within them.
What do I believe, I believe The Scriptures concerning All Things.

 

[Xelsorsior]

We are not pre-destined for salvation. I believe there is a great deal of error or misunderstanding regarding salvation and who will be saved.

Salvation is available to all who ask for it (assuming they meet the requirements, accept Christ as their personal Savior, etc).

God did not DETERMINE in advance who will be saved. Did He know?

Of course He knew who would accept salvation and who will not. That is not the same as His pre-determination of who will saved. Knowing in advance is not the same as deciding in advance.

God decided, in advance that all who asked for salvation would be saved. That is as far as His pre-determination goes.

Fred

I am simply astonished as to how you know the Mind of God, oh if only I could know the Mind of God, I could create worlds as well. One of the main reasons why Lucifer is a Fallen Angel is because He proclaimed to know the Mind of God, for if he knew the Mind of God, He would not have chosen to Rebell against what he knew could not be overcome or attained. Here is Wisdom and Knowledge, see the contradiction within itself. Claiming to know the Mind of God is very sacred ground for one to stand on, and that one should be very careful not to Blaspheme. The Spirit of God has been said to be The Mind of God. This is through my love for you dear bretheran that I make this plea; do to not pretend to know the Mind of God.

 

[Protestante]

Hmm... that was helpful Xel, however, you said you believe in the Scriptures. I doubt many (if any) here would make a different claim, so concerning Predestination, how do you interpet the Scriptures? And also A-Creed, I have given many verse which say God chose people for salvation, what do you say those are referring to?

eg -
2Th 2:13 But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.

 

[Xelsorsior]

Hmm... that was helpful Xel, however, you said you believe in the Scriptures. I doubt many (if any) here would make a different claim, so concerning Predestination, how do you interpet the Scriptures? And also A-Creed, I have given many verse which say God chose people for salvation, what do you say those are referring to?

eg -
2Th 2:13 But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.

The Scriptures would say that if there is a division among you, you will not stand. Christ was acused of preforming miracles in the name of Beelzubub. Christs' reply was very insightful and useful to all who would read this response of Christs'.
At this time I am not at liberty to deside which interpretation of Doctrine one should follow. The Spirits interpretation should allow all to achieve unity in any division, if not, then the Spirit is lacking, not present, in this division. The Spirit is not divided against itself, it is in truth and formost of God our Father and through Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior. If the Spirit has given unto you the ability to discern between truth and falsehood, so be it, that would mean that you are "Called" and would be "Counted" among "The Chosen Ellect", I am not against you. We do not agrue about Scriptures, we may indeed use the Spirit, our gifts, that have been given unto us by our Salvation through Jesus Christ to defend our reason for hope and Salvation. To pursuade, as it were, to inform, correct and edify those that are lacking in Knowledge and Faith, and at the same time while we grow in faith as well.
As far as The Creed, which Creed, there are numerous Creeds. Creeds only identify a belief of which one has. Jesus Christ taught us how to pray and we refer to that as The Lord's Prayer.
God Willing, I shall be available for more indepth answers to your questions.

 

[Davonyx]

It is not up to us to interpret the scriptures but to listen to the Holy Spirit as He guides us through the reading of the scripture. His insight, if you have ears to hear, will be given at the appropriate times in your life. So what you read one time will not affect you or what you are doing as much as another time. He will give you insight when it is most aptly to be either applied or understood. It's totally up to the person and how they pursue, a personal relationship, or lack thereof, with God by the power of the Holy Spirit and in the name of Jesus Christ.

"knowing first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit."
- 2 Peter 1:20-21

So it's not what we think the word says as individuals but what God is trying to say to those who will listen. If God is the author, which He is, then it is what He says from His point of view, not our flawed opinions.