Predestination??

[ContraMundum]

CM, as your post was long and involved, would you prefer I address it as a whole or focus exclusively on "does man have a responsibility towards his own sanctification or not?"
Thanks,
God bless

I don't know. It's really up to you , but perhaps for the sake of brevity and all that, maybe you should just focus on that question. The rest of the stuff seems to be much in line with where I'm coming from, at least enough so not to warrant endless pages of dialouge that has been spoken of ad infinitum for centuries.

 

[ContraMundum]

why did you ignore the rest of the chapter you quoted?
You quoted the "whosover" bit and forgot or ignored the bit that says unless 'they' hear the Gospel they cannot believe!
Which in simple terms means that not everyone does have a "chance at salvation" ................. see ;

I hate to interrupt but isn't that just taken for granted? I mean, it's obvious that the Word is the means of grace- even the Reformed acknowledge that, don't they?

Therefore, the "whosoever" means (to Normann's point of view) that "whosoever" chooses to follow after they hear the Gospel, right?

As for what "whosoever" means in your language, I really no longer have a clue. One day it's this, another day it's that. (Not you personally, but many of the pundits who espouse your position seem to change a lot on that point- I just read the Greek and that's enough for me).

 

[Espada]

I refuse to believe that my God is responsible for condemning souls to hell because of His choice. I think God gives everyone a way to hear the truth and it is by their choice that at one point or another deprives them of hearing it.

Maybe you can be convinced by God's word.

Exodus 4:21
21 The Lord said to Moses, “When you return to Egypt, see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders I have given you the power to do. But I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go. #_ftn1 #_ftnref1The Holy Bible : New International Version. 1996, c1984 . Zondervan: Grand Rapids



Joshua 11:20
20 For it was the Lord himself who hardened their hearts to wage war against Israel, so that he might destroy them totally, exterminating them without mercy, as the Lord had commanded Moses. #_ftn1 #_ftnref1The Holy Bible : New International Version. 1996, c1984 . Zondervan: Grand Rapids

2 Chronicles 6:13
13 He also rebelled against King Nebuchadnezzar, who had made him take an oath in God’s name. He became stiff-necked and hardened his heart and would not turn to the Lord, the God of Israel. #_ftn1 #_ftnref1The Holy Bible : New International Version. 1996, c1984 . Zondervan: Grand Rapids

Isaiah 63:17

17 Why, O Lord, do you make us wander from your ways​

and harden our hearts so we do not revere you?​

Return for the sake of your servants,​

the tribes that are your inheritance.​

#_ftn1 #_ftnref1The Holy Bible : New International Version. 1996, c1984 . Zondervan: Grand Rapids



Okay, I know that is all OT, surely the NT doesn't say it. does it?

Romans 9:18
18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden. #_ftn1 #_ftnref1The Holy Bible : New International Version. 1996, c1984 . Zondervan: Grand Rapids



Romans 11:7-8

7 What then? What Israel sought so earnestly it did not obtain, but the elect did. The others were hardened, 8 as it is written:​

“God gave them a spirit of stupor,​

eyes so that they could not see​

and ears so that they could not hear,​

to this very day.”​

#_ftn1 #_ftnref1The Holy Bible : New International Version. 1996, c1984 . Zondervan: Grand Rapids



It would appear that God does indeed harden peoples hearts against him.

 

[ChrisBot]

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