Predestination

[aggie03]

First of all, I don't believe that you can build your beliefs off of a single book, a single chapter, or a single verse from the Bible. The Bible tells us that all scripture is God-breathed so we have to consider all of the scripture in context when we read ( 2 Tim 3:16,17).

God realized that man would would fall from grace and that we would be unable to keep the mosaic law perfectly - that's why there was sacrifices and cleansing in the Old Testament. When you read Galatians it is readily apparent that from the beginning God knew He was going to send His son to be crucified for all the sins of mankind. This is the predestination of which the Bible speaks. The fact that through Christ you will be saved. I don't believe that God just chooses people to be saved - if that were the case you wouldn't be a free moral agent. Not only that, you how would you know that you were one of the few that God chose? Just because you think that you believe and are obeying you could never really no because the Bible doesn't say Joe Smith, in Colorado will be saved - but rather is says all who believe through the son (with some other qualifiers that I won't list now) are to be saved. This is just the beginning of my premise, I guess, but it's late and I'm getting tired, so I'll write some more tomorrow hopefully - please let me know what you think!

 

[Reformationist]

Originally posted by aggie03
I don't mean to anger anyone with the things that I say, and I only write this now because I haven't had much luck in the past with people (including myself) keeping their cool while discussing what they believe.

If you always ensure that you are responding, or initiating an action, with love for God and love for others being your motive then angering someone shouldn't really be an issue for you. Some people are immature in their faith so their instinctive response will be anger when faced with a position they find disagreeable. You are doing fine. And BTW, I thank God for your new found hope and encouragement.

I do think that as long as we approach the Bible with an open mind and a good heart filled with love for the Lord that we will find the truth in His word.

I agree. Well said (for any Christian, especially one so new to God's truth).

When you read Galatians it is readily apparent that from the beginning God knew He was going to send His son to be crucified for all the sins of mankind.

Here's the variance in many people's beliefs. I personally believe God's will is sovereign and effectual. I believe that the death of Jesus had the exact effect for which it was purposed. So, operating along those lines, if someone is saved, it was God's Will. Additionally, if someone is not saved, that is exactly the effect God intended Jesus' death to have in their lives, and therefore, it was His Will that they not be saved. I don't believe Jesus' death was to provide an opportunity for salvation, i.e. previent grace. As "all the sins of mankind" are not paid for, i.e. some will suffer eternal damnation, then His death was not for the purpose of saving all mankind.

I don't believe that God just chooses people to be saved - if that were the case you wouldn't be a free moral agent.

I don't believe we are ever free moral agents, saved or unsaved. That denotes a disbelief in the fallen nature of mankind, and an ability to exist outside of God's judgment. We were created with the ability to make decisions, but, those decisions are bound by the nature we possess and, ultimately, the judgment of God. Prior to our salvation we are in bondage to a sinful nature and thus, are only able to make sinful decisions. After we are saved we are in bondage to righteousness. As to the latter, there is, unfortunately, a remnant of our old man that we are being continually sanctified from.

Not only that, you how would you know that you were one of the few that God chose?

You would know by your desire to please God. The unregenerate have no desire to please God.

As far as who it will be, I think that's rather insignificant with regard to how we are supposed to deal with the things in our life. We are commanded to "love our neighbor as we love ourselves," not "love our saved neighbor as we love ourselves." Treat everyone with a godly love, despite where they are in their walk with the Lord or their disposition on Judgment Day.

God bless.

 

[Susan]

Hey all, I'm home!!! LOL
I will post in Prayer forum shortly after I finish checking my e-mail and postings.
So nice to see you all again!
BTW I will probably cross post this, is that against the rules?

 

[aggie03]

Sorry that I haven't been on here in a while to post more questions that I've had. I've been away with the doctors for a little while. I'm very tired and it's hard to stay awake, but I assure you that I've got more questions and that I'll be back. Talk to you all soon!