Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
That's correct, and I've said it myself. The idea that the issue can be solved by pointing to one verse here or another there, while ignoring the rest, just doesn't work.The bible teaches both
Does the age of the poster have a part in why they view one over the other, freewill or predestination?
Just observing the wording of some of the posts.
You may speculate that way when speaking of God...but Philip??Since God is outside the confines of space, He is able to move freely between dimensions. This explains how the Christ following His resurrection, was able to appear bodily inside the locked room where His followers had gathered. It also explains how Phillip was able to move so far and so quickly following his encounter with the Ethiopian eunuch.
You may speculate that way when speaking of God...but Philip??
Hey, if Scotty can move Captain Kirk and Spock all over the place, God can certainly move Phillip. LOL!
Does God predestine some part of humanity to salvation and another part to damnation and there is nothing either group can do about it? Many arguments have been presented in support of this.
But, note this passage from Jeremiah. God said I have caused to cleave That word is הדבקתי/hadabaqthi. It is in the perfect or completed sense. Gods will, expressly stated, for the whole house of Israel and Judah, not just an elect, predestined, chosen, few, was for all of Israel and all of Judah to cling to God as a belt clings to a mans waist. It was done, finished, completed, in Gods sight, and, according to some arguments presented, nothing man can do will cause Gods will to not be done. But they, Israel and Judah, would not hear and obey, their will, vs. Gods will, So God destroyed them, vs. 14.
This passage very much speaks to the issue of Gods sovereign will, and mans free will and agency. God stated very clearly what His will was, in terms that cannot be misunderstood. But, because the Israelites would not hear, and obey, God destroyed them, instead of them being unto God, for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory, vs. 10.
Jer 13:1 Thus saith the LORD unto me, Go and get thee a linen girdle, and put it upon thy loins, and put it not in water.
2 So I got a girdle according to the word of the LORD, and put it on my loins.
3 And the word of the LORD came unto me the second time, saying,
4 Take the girdle that thou hast got, which is upon thy loins, and arise, go to Euphrates, and hide it there in a hole of the rock.
5 So I went, and hid it by Euphrates, as the LORD commanded me.
6 And it came to pass after many days, that the LORD said unto me, Arise, go to Euphrates, and take the girdle from thence, which I commanded thee to hide there.
7 Then I went to Euphrates, and digged, and took the girdle from the place where I had hid it: and, behold, the girdle was marred, it was profitable for nothing.
8 Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
9 Thus saith the LORD, After this manner will I mar the pride of Judah, and the great pride of Jerusalem.
10 This evil people, which refuse to hear my words, which walk in the imagination of their heart, and walk after other gods, to serve them, and to worship them, shall even be as this girdle, which is good for nothing.
11 For as the girdle cleaveth to the loins of a man, so have I caused to cleave [ הדבקתי/hadabaqthi] unto me the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah, saith the LORD; that they might be unto me for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory: but they would not hear.
[size=-1] Note, verse 14, God said He will NOT have pity, will NOT spare, and will NOT have mercy but destroy them.[/SIZE]
14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.
Bump to the front
Chapters can also be cherry picked the idea is to find how both sides of a coin make one...
*[[Rom 11:25-29]] KJV*
%v 25% For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
%v 26% And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
%v 27% For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
%v 28% As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
%v 29% For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Please feel free to show me how I have misrepresented anything? Let's quote a few more verses in Rom chapter 11.
Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
A remnant, 7000 men, are reserved, not every Israelite who was ever born.
Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
And their being saved depends on their not remaining in disbelief.
Well, I don't believe my ego is me.I know this is a very disputed topic, and I am sure it has been brought up countless times.
What I'm confused about is how Free Will fits into the area of God's omniscience. If God knows everything, he therefore knows everything that everyone is ever going to do, and he has always known it, even before anything except him was in existence. Is it that we have the freedom to choose, but God already knows what is going to happen? It would seem that if he already knows what will be, and he is the only force in existence at that time, is that or isn't that equal to him planning it?
If there is predestination, I certainly feel more sympathetic for many people throughout history. Take Judas for instance. He is toted as one of the most infamous villains in the Bible, but from the standpoint of predestination, he was only doing the job that God appointed for him to do (I mean, for Jesus to die and fulfill his plan of saving us, someone had to betray him so he could be killed). Then there's Pilate. He had a choice, set free a man and have a war on his hands that would get him executed; or kill the man to save the peace temporarily (you know, I never thought of it in that way, but Jesus's sacrifice also payed the price for stopping/delaying a possible war). Just like Judas, under predestination, Pilate was only playing the role he was scripted.
I could list countless more, but I think my thoughts have been communicated. I definitely understand the Free Will side in that a world in which we are forced to do something by something outside of our power isn't love and has no meaning. I also believe that God is in control and it would go against his very nature if he didn't know what was going to happen all along. Could it be that there is a hybridization of sorts between the two that is simply beyond our capabilities of fathoming? How do y'all reconcile this issue?
I know this is a very disputed topic, and I am sure it has been brought up countless times.
What I'm confused about is how Free Will fits into the area of God's omniscience. If God knows everything, he therefore knows everything that everyone is ever going to do, and he has always known it, even before anything except him was in existence. Is it that we have the freedom to choose, but God already knows what is going to happen? It would seem that if he already knows what will be, and he is the only force in existence at that time, is that or isn't that equal to him planning it?
If there is predestination, I certainly feel more sympathetic for many people throughout history. Take Judas for instance. He is toted as one of the most infamous villains in the Bible, but from the standpoint of predestination, he was only doing the job that God appointed for him to do (I mean, for Jesus to die and fulfill his plan of saving us, someone had to betray him so he could be killed). Then there's Pilate. He had a choice, set free a man and have a war on his hands that would get him executed; or kill the man to save the peace temporarily (you know, I never thought of it in that way, but Jesus's sacrifice also payed the price for stopping/delaying a possible war). Just like Judas, under predestination, Pilate was only playing the role he was scripted.
I could list countless more, but I think my thoughts have been communicated. I definitely understand the Free Will side in that a world in which we are forced to do something by something outside of our power isn't love and has no meaning. I also believe that God is in control and it would go against his very nature if he didn't know what was going to happen all along. Could it be that there is a hybridization of sorts between the two that is simply beyond our capabilities of fathoming? How do y'all reconcile this issue?
...I don't believe love is worthless just because it is predestined.
I don't believe my life being totally predestined makes me a robot. Robots don't live.
But I do believe that limitations have been put on what we can fathom, and that the paradox free will being created by an omniscient, omnipotent being is only a paradox because of our perspective, which is mostly finite.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?