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Predestination Question (supporters please)

Rylick

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I understand a fair bit about predestination and agree with it. However, what about those who have not heard the gospel. What about Native Americans and other monotheists who worshiped a great spirit or whatever prior to the introduction of Christianity to them? What happens to them? How could they have known about Jesus so they could be saved? I hope that this question makes sense.
 
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JSGuitarist

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It's a good question to ask. At the same time, I would not say that the question is necessarily one about predestination, at least not immediately. The real question, are those who have never heard the Gospel still responsible for their sin?

"For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus." - Romans 2:14-16 (ESV).

In wider context, Paul is comparing and contrasting the responsibility of both Jew and Gentile alike, and his conclusion is that ignorance of the Gospel is not an excuse for a man. Predestination doesn't really fit into the matter at this point, but what matters, Paul says, is that in their conscience they know right from wrong.

That is ultimately where sin all begins: The conscience. The fact that one does what he knows to be wrong is enough to hold him responsible, whether or not the act was wrong in itself. For those in the unenlightened parts of the world, they will still be held responsible, and their own consciences will be their own accusers. The question will be, "If you knew it was wrong, why did you go and do it anyways?"

Whether a man has grown up in the light of the Gospel or not, the problem remains that both men still have the same sinful nature, and Romans 3:10-18 gives us a vivid picture of how rebellious man can be. Whether enlightened Jew or ignorant Gentile, both men have a nature that rejects the Gospel; they will not only reject it, but they will reject it every time that it is offered. In either case, you still have men who will not repent only because they will not repent, whether or not the light of the Gospel has ever come to them. If election has a part, it is this: God chooses to leave many in their sin; and they do not sin because God did not help them, but they sin because of their own conscious and delighted assent to sin.

Point being, if you begin with what the Bible says about human nature, you begin to understand why it is that the men who have been left without the light of the Gospel are still responsible; that is, men sin because men love sin, and they love sin even they know it is wrong. Once this is firmly understood, then the questions that involve election receive more ready answers.

I hope this helps you. May God give you the light you are seeking!
 
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Rylick

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It does help thank you. You're right, it is more of a question on accountability. My thought however is that Jesus states that he is the way the truth and the life. Salvation is only through Him. So, were the people who had no way of knowing about Christ predestined to hell to begin with?
 
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AMR

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It does help thank you. You're right, it is more of a question on accountability. My thought however is that Jesus states that he is the way the truth and the life. Salvation is only through Him. So, were the people who had no way of knowing about Christ predestined to hell to begin with?
Predestination is ordinarily never used when discussing the reprobate. The term is applied to those elected by God from a fallen mass of humanity, the "lump of clay". Those not elected are passed by and left in their sins.

There is a minority view among some reformed, called equal ultimacy, where we encounter the notion of "double predestination". This is a view denounced by the great majority of reformed believers. For more, see:

"Double" Predestination by R.C. Sproul

From the WCF we read the following- note the distinctive use of predestination:

III. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels(f) are predestinated unto everlasting life; and others foreordained to everlasting death.(g)

f. 1 Tim.5:21; Mt.25:41.
g. Rom.9:22,23; Eph.1:5,6; Prov.16:4.

IV. These angels and men, thus predestinated, and foreordained, are particularly and unchangeably designed, and their number so certain and definite, that it cannot be either increased or diminished.(h)

h. 2 Tim.2:19; Jn.13:18.

V. Those of mankind that are predestinated unto life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to his eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of his will, hath chosen, in Christ, unto everlasting glory,(i) out of his mere free grace and love, without any foresight of faith, or good works, or perseverance in either of them, or any other thing in the creature, as conditions, or causes moving him thereunto:(k) and all to the praise of his glorious grace.(l)

i. Eph.1:4,9,11; Rom.8:30; 2 Tim.1:9; 1 Thess.5:9.
k. Rom.9:11,13,16; Eph.1:4,9.
l. Eph.1:6,12.

VI. As God hath appointed the elect unto glory, so hath He, by the eternal and most free purpose of his will, foreordained all the means thereunto.(m) Wherefore, they who are elected, being fallen in Adam, are redeemed by Christ,(n) are effectually called unto faith in Christ by his Spirit working in due season, are justified, adopted, sanctified,(o) and kept by his power, through faith, unto salvation.(p) Neither are any other redeemed by Christ, effectually called, justified, adopted, sanctified, and saved, but the elect only.(q)

m. 1 Pet.1:2; Eph.1:4,5; 2:10; 2 Thess.2:13.
n. 1 Thess.5:9,10; Tit.2:14.
o. Rom.8:30; Eph.1:5; 2 Thess.2:13.
p. 1 Pet.1:5.
q. Jn.17:9; Rom.8:28-39; Jn.6:64,65; 10:26; 8:47; 1 Jn.2:19.

VII. The rest of mankind God was pleased, according to the unsearchable counsel of his own will, whereby he extendeth or withholdeth mercy, as he pleaseth, for the glory of his sovereign power over his creatures, to pass by; and to ordain them to dishonour and wrath for their sin, to the praise of his glorious justice.(r)

r. Mt.11:25,26; Rom.9:17,18,21,22; 2 Tim.2:19,20; Jude 4; 1 Pet.2:8.

VIII. The doctrine of this high mystery of predestination is to be handled with special prudence and care,(s) that men, attending the will of God revealed in his Word, and yielding obedience thereunto, may, from the certainty of their effectual vocation, be assured of their eternal election.(t) So shall this doctrine afford matter of praise, reverence, and admiration of God;(u) and of humility, diligence, and abundant consolation to all that sincerely obey the Gospel.(w)

s. Rom.9:20; 11:33; Dt.29:29.
t. 2 Pet.1:10.
u. Eph.1:6; Rom.11:33.
w. Rom.11:5,6,20; 2 Pet.1:10; Rom.8:33; Lk.10:20.​

The reprobate are without excuse, and we must not fall into the error of ignoring the state of sin of every person born and living, whether unregenerate or reprobate.
 
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A New Dawn

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I understand a fair bit about predestination and agree with it. However, what about those who have not heard the gospel. What about Native Americans and other monotheists who worshiped a great spirit or whatever prior to the introduction of Christianity to them? What happens to them? How could they have known about Jesus so they could be saved? I hope that this question makes sense.

In Acts 17 there is a curious story that relates that the people of Athens had an "unknown god" that covered all the gods that people made sacrifices to. Paul, when he goes there, tells them who that unknown god is, that he is the true God of all creation. I do believe that there are many peoples who worship that unknown god, the God of all creation, even though they don't know his name. I believe that they are worshiping God and, just as Abraham and Sarah did not know Jesus, their faith was credited as righteousness, so it will be with them. I do not believe that all peoples who do not know God by the name we know him by are in the same boat, but I do believe that there are some who are.
 
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James1979

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Rylick,

Simply put, you need to be under the hearing of the gospel to become saved, as this is the method that God uses to save his elect, sheep, remnant, etc. Without the gospel you simply cannot become save. Even those who hear the gospel, which are a great many still remain unsaved throughout their lives, we have to hope that God will have mercy upon sinners like us. No one is guaranteed to go to heaven, it's a privilege not a right.

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
 
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heymikey80

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Well, in the total absence of human apostles, the gospel was preached beforehand to Abraham (cf Gal 3). Whatever was preached, Abraham received the Gospel without the intervention of an army of evangelists combing the world. So if God knows someone needs to know, He's not limited.

Also, it's really God the Spirit leading people carried along by the Spirit of Grace to bring the Gospel. It's not a shotgun approach the Spirit's engaging in. And we're carried along by Him. (John 3).
 
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James1979

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Abraham was preached to by God himself. Eternal God is the very essence of the word of God, the law book that has God's commandments.

Abraham was under the hearing of the gospel, his new faith came when he was walking and talking with God. There is no different on how someone becomes saved, it's the same for everyone who is elect of God. Yes it's true that God is not limited but he has never nor will make short comings or loopholes to save someone. God is faithful to be obedient to his own law, just as mankind is suppose to be obedient to the law.
 
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