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Think about that verse you quoted for a minute, who is the Rock?Born Again, isn't it great to read the Bible on your own, filling in your own, private interpretations. WOW
Latin Petrus, "rock" = Peter
Greek Petros, "rock" = Peter
Engish Peter, "rock" = Peter
Aramaic Kipha, Kephas, Cephas = "rock" = Peter.
Mat 16: 18.
"Upon this "rock' (Peter=Cephas or Kephas) I will build my Church….."
AMDG
Jan 001,
The understanding of the Holy Trinity is a matter of faith, it is a supernatural mystery and requires grace from God to believe and perhaps reason out. It's one of those topics that we can only discuss ever so slightly, polite exchanges. All you can do is explain your Catholic view and avoid arguing———usually a futile exchange.
Just a thought.
AMDG
Then explain why there are so many different denominations if what you believe is true?This is quite untrue. While there are disagreements on certain matters, what you're arguing for in this instance has almost no support from any of them.
Yep scripture always wins on truth alone.Well, then, I'd say this discussion is over.
Those denominations part company with each other because of disagreements on other matters, matters of less importance--not the one you outlined for us.Then explain why there are so many different denominations if what you believe is true?
How did I interpret something when I quoted it verbatim? BTW I did edit my post to make it more clear on your claim because disagreements are one thing but church splits aren't over disagreements they are over doctrinal issues. BTW I didn't look for a church that agreed with my standards but rather taught the whole bible and could answer my questions but not necessarily to my liking or agreement as long as the answer was biblically based.Those denominations part company with each other because of disagreements on other matters, not the one you outlined for us. It's you against almost the whole word on that one and you can visit church after church until the cows come home without finding a one that agrees with you there. That should cause a reasonable person to think twice about his personal interpretation of the verses you gave us.
That's the nature of "interpretation."How did I interpret something when I quoted it verbatim?
Sometimes, but not always. Many splits have occurred over worship practices, finances, the legitimacy of the leadership and much more. But in any case, there is almost no denomination that agrees with you on the matter of the Son being the Father.BTW I did edit my post to make it more clear on your claim because disagreements are one thing but church splits aren't over disagreements they are over doctrinal issues.
But that does not mean that He removes our free-will. I say remove because it is OBVIOUS that Adam & Eve had free-will to choose in the Garden. Unless someone wants to go so far as to say God planned sin, which I am not sure a holy God would or could predestine His creation to sin.
Those to me are the questions.
..... Nobody predestined, no selected people, tribes, etc….and the Creator will help if needed…..
Those who love and obey God's wishes will receive their reward—.... Those who failed to follow the Verbum Dei ———no hell, boiling oil, poked by the devils etc…….just a short judgment, then "poof" gone, terminated……..body and soul.
The punishment that will be the greatest of all hurt———-not being able to see——-the "BEATIFIC VISION".
Ahhh,,I am a simple man with a simple plan——————AMDG
Jan001
As you can see how easy it is to fall into the traps of the bible only crowd. They have the advantage of fitting the Bible into their personalities, biasnesses etc. rather than attempting to fit their opinion into the Bible, the Verbum Dei.
There are over 33,000 biblical organizations 33,000 interpretations by all sorts of opinionated persons———-
Like the old Senator said—-"Ther's a lottof muddled thinking and baloney goin on outdere."
Caveat,
If some one refers to another's response as "baloney' or "muddled thinking" best thing——avoid any further conversation and simply say your 'ad hominem" remarks do not deserve the dignity of a rely…..many are masters at bible jousting.
AMDG
I think they are perfectly correct in this conversation. Not as far as predestination, but about free-will it is very applicable.Adam and Even are not part of the issue because they were created without sin. That's not the case with the rest of us. And Predestination refers to God choosing his Elect in order to save them from their sins.
"Fear" is usually at the bottom of behavioral objectives in life, but it is a positive force as seen so often in the Old Testament.
The New Testament is based on the highest behavioral objective "love". Deus Est Caritas.
Love of Christ guides one towards salvation——a predestined path if you choose to walk on the path.
Not true. Most of the Bible is fairly agreed upon by the Bible crowd. Now it is when people get into 'tradition' and what they have always done, that is where the other stuff comes in to play.Jan001
As you can see how easy it is to fall into the traps of the bible only crowd. They have the advantage of fitting the Bible into their personalities, biasnesses etc. rather than attempting to fit their opinion into the Bible, the Verbum Dei.
There are over 33,000 biblical organizations 33,000 interpretations by all sorts of opinionated persons———-
Like the old Senator said—-"Ther's a lottof muddled thinking and baloney goin on outdere."
Caveat,
If some one refers to another's response as "baloney' or "muddled thinking" best thing——avoid any further conversation and simply say your 'ad hominem" remarks do not deserve the dignity of a rely…..many are masters at bible jousting.
AMDG
Who said or where did you get the idea that it was 'hard work' for God. Can God not speak things into existance? Who is putting limitations and showing their biases about the power of God and what He can and cannot do.Some questions——why would an infinite God—-as one poster stated—-omniscient, omnipotent, infinite in all HIS attributes, why would God work hard over several days creating a universe, animals and mankind, -
Then they apparently weren't among the Elect, were they?
You see, half the battle in discussing this issue with opponents of predestination comes from them not knowing what predestination means, even though it's been explained repeatedly.
You bet. Being chosen for a certain role is not "predestination." Being chosen to have saving faith IS what it's about.
Yes, to the first; Maybe to the second.
None of us knows. That doesn't change anything.
Yep scripture always wins on truth alone.
Not true. Most of the Bible is fairly agreed upon by the Bible crowd. Now it is when people get into 'tradition' and what they have always done, that is where the other stuff comes in to play.
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