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3rd April 2003 at 03:23 AM rnmomof7 said this in Post #139
The blood of Christ was sufficent for all but effective only for the elect..
bird we have met before have we not?
3rd April 2003 at 03:46 AM CCWoody said this in Post #142
bird, it is my understanding that this portion of the forum is for Christians only. Just for your FYI....
Your friendly neighborhood Cordial Calvinist
Woody.
2nd April 2003 at 10:46 PM bird said this in Post #141
dear momof7,
help me understand what you mean when you say "sufficient for all, but effective only for the elect." it kind of sounds like jesus has the means to save all, but chooses not to.
i don't think so.
bird
What religion are you bird?2nd April 2003 at 11:54 PM bird said this in Post #143
dear woody,
that was my understanding as well. it was also my understanding that this was the soteriology forum where we could discuss the study of salvation....was i mistaken?
bird
3rd April 2003 at 05:03 AM rnmomof7 said this in Post #144
Correct..He saved all those that were given to Him by the Father..not one more or one less..
spiderrr, woody,
thank you for your responses....would i be correct in assuming that your answers are in agreement? and if so, am i to conclude that adam's sin is more far reaching, pervasive and effective than the saving power of the incarnate son?
bird
1st on another thread someone typed out the word and it was not edited..seems it only edits biblical d*amnation:>)3rd April 2003 at 10:43 AM nikolai_42 said this in Post #148
Some good questions bird! I was just browsing and had a couple of thoughts for you, rnmomof7 and CCWoody. More of a summing up, really.
If I understand rnmom and CC correctly, there is a group of people (called the elect) that God already knows - even if they don't know Him yet. They will be saved and only they. But where I have questions is where God Himself (through inspired men) says that He desires all men to be saved. Which would seem to me to mean a part of His desires going eternally unsatisfied. Now, maybe that's a misrepresentation - His desire really isn't for all men to be saved. If that's the case, then I can fully see God choosing to save some and not others. Otherwise, it seems God ends up being satisfied with being unsatisfied - because of man's free will. Unless of course those who are eternally ****** are ****** because God predestined them to be that way.
Just some observations. Comments on this? Where is my understanding faulty?
There are many biblical examples of the word being used to delinate a sub group ..like some of each kind.
The example I uses is that I have 7 adult children. Only 3 live in my area. So when I say to my mother that "all " the kids are coming tomorrow, she understands I do not really mean ALL I meant the local all a subset of the greater all.
PAS
1) individually
a) each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything
2) collectively
a) some of all types
++++
... "the whole world has gone after him" Did all the world go after Christ? "then went all Judea, and were baptized of him in Jordan." Was all Judea, or all Jerusalem, baptized in Jordan? "Ye are of God, little children", and the whole world lieth in the wicked one". Does the whole world there mean everybody? The words "world" and "all" are used in some seven or eight senses in Scripture, and it is very rarely the "all" means all persons, taken individually. The words are generally used to signify that Christ has redeemed some of all sorts -- some Jews, some Gentiles, some rich, some poor, and has not restricted His redemption to either Jew or Gentile ...
C.H. Spurgeon from a sermon on Particular Redemption
3rd April 2003 at 11:09 AM nikolai_42 said this in Post #153
So, rnmomof7, are you saying that you don't believe God does desire every single man to be saved? Not talking hard results here, but God's desire.
3rd April 2003 at 10:05 PM rnmomof7 said this in Post #157
Don't mean to stick your wings together..just wondered the denomination?? Methodist, presbyterian,Wesleyan?
2nd April 2003 at 10:31 AM rnmomof7 said this in Post #131
Do you believe that God is a liar? Would he send into the flames of hell men that the blood of Christ washed clean? Does God demand double payment from some men?
2nd April 2003 at 10:23 AM rnmomof7 said this in Post #130
I changed nothing that was a paste from the KJV
Rom 5:15__ But not as the offence, so also [is] the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, [which is] by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. KJV
Rom 5:15 But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many. NAS
Rom 5:15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift in the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.RSV
Rom 5:15 But, not as the offence so also [is] the free gift; for if by the offence of the one the many did die, much more did the grace of God, and the free gift in grace of the one man Jesus Christ, abound to the many; Youngs literal translation
As you see MANY is the operative word Rag man. Many will be dead because of the sin of Adam..but not all, many will be savbed by the propitiation of Chrsit
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