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Predestination/Election
- Thread starter lands21
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Benedicta00
Well-Known Member
Bulldog said:
And we agree, did we not say that it is God who chooses us? The most we will ever be capable of is a mere response.
There is no where in that bible you will be able to find any support for him not calling all men to himself. There is no where in that bible where it says that he only calls some and those are not in any position to refuse, it just isn't in there.
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Benedicta00
Well-Known Member
Bulldog said:Sorry.What do you believe?
That he chooses us and all we will ever be capable of is a mere response. Response, not choice is our highest expression to God.
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Believes Gods Sovereignity
Disciple
No you are dead wrong. NOWHERE does it say the world was invited on the ark. That is wrong. God went to NOAH and told him for him to build an ark, not for the entire world. Who in the world told you such a lie???Shelb5 said:
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Benedicta00
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Believes Gods Sovereignity said:
I think you need to go back and read the scripture. This is about God preserving that human race for the chosen people to receive the Messiah. It is not about God with holding grace. It is about Him purifying the bloodline.
Noah was found just. He walked with God. That is why he was chosen to preserve the human race for redemption. That would be the redemtion of the human race.
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Deut.10:14 - Deut.10:15 (NKJ)
14 "Indeed heaven and the highest heavens belong to the Lord your God, also the earth with all that is in it.15 "The Lord delighted only in your fathers, to love them; and He chose their descendants after them, you above all peoples, as it is this day.
Matt.24:22 - Matt.24:24 (NKJ)
22 "And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened.23 "Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There!' do not believe it.24 "For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
Matt.24:31 - Matt.24:31 (NKJ)
31 "And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
John.6:37 - John.6:39 (NKJ)
37 "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.38 "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.39 "This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
John.6:65 - John.6:65 (NKJ)65
And He said, "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father."
John.17:9 - John.17:9 (NKJ)
9"I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours.
Rom.8:28 - Rom.8:33 (NKJ)
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things?33 Who shall bring a charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies.
Rom.11:5 - Rom.11:5 (NKJ)
5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
Eph.1:4 - Eph.1:5 (NKJ)
4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
Eph.1:11 - Eph.1:11 (NKJ)
11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,
1Thes.1:4 - 1Thes.1:5 (NKJ)
4 knowing, beloved brethren, your election by God.5 For our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Spirit and in much assurance, as you know what kind of men we were among you for your sake.
1Thes.5:9 - 1Thes.5:9 (NKJ)
9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
2Thes.2:13 - 2Thes.2:13 (NKJ)
13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth,
1Pet.1:1 - 1Pet.1:2 (NKJ)
I Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,2 elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.
1Pet.2:8 - 1Pet.2:9 (NKJ)
8 and "A stone of stumbling And a rock of offense." They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed.9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;
Deut.7:6 - Deut.7:8 (NKJ)
6 "For you are a holy people to the Lord your God; the Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for Himself, a special treasure above all the peoples on the face of the earth.7 "The Lord did not set His love on you nor choose you because you were more in number than any other people, for you were the least of all peoples;8 "but because the Lord loves you, and because He would keep the oath which He swore to your fathers, the Lord has brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you from the house of bondage, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
Rom.9:11 - Rom.9:13 (NKJ)
11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls),12 it was said to her, "The older shall serve the younger."13 As it is written, "Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated."
Rom.9:16 - Rom.9:16 (NKJ)
16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.
1Cor.1:27 - 1Cor.1:29 (NKJ)
27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty;28 and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are,29 that no flesh should glory in His presence.
2Tim.1:9 - 2Tim.1:9 (NKJ)
9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,
Overwhelming, isn't it?
14 "Indeed heaven and the highest heavens belong to the Lord your God, also the earth with all that is in it.15 "The Lord delighted only in your fathers, to love them; and He chose their descendants after them, you above all peoples, as it is this day.
Matt.24:22 - Matt.24:24 (NKJ)
22 "And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened.23 "Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There!' do not believe it.24 "For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
Matt.24:31 - Matt.24:31 (NKJ)
31 "And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
John.6:37 - John.6:39 (NKJ)
37 "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.38 "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.39 "This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
John.6:65 - John.6:65 (NKJ)65
And He said, "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father."
John.17:9 - John.17:9 (NKJ)
9"I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours.
Rom.8:28 - Rom.8:33 (NKJ)
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things?33 Who shall bring a charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies.
Rom.11:5 - Rom.11:5 (NKJ)
5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
Eph.1:4 - Eph.1:5 (NKJ)
4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
Eph.1:11 - Eph.1:11 (NKJ)
11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,
1Thes.1:4 - 1Thes.1:5 (NKJ)
4 knowing, beloved brethren, your election by God.5 For our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Spirit and in much assurance, as you know what kind of men we were among you for your sake.
1Thes.5:9 - 1Thes.5:9 (NKJ)
9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
2Thes.2:13 - 2Thes.2:13 (NKJ)
13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth,
1Pet.1:1 - 1Pet.1:2 (NKJ)
I Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,2 elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.
1Pet.2:8 - 1Pet.2:9 (NKJ)
8 and "A stone of stumbling And a rock of offense." They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed.9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;
Deut.7:6 - Deut.7:8 (NKJ)
6 "For you are a holy people to the Lord your God; the Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for Himself, a special treasure above all the peoples on the face of the earth.7 "The Lord did not set His love on you nor choose you because you were more in number than any other people, for you were the least of all peoples;8 "but because the Lord loves you, and because He would keep the oath which He swore to your fathers, the Lord has brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you from the house of bondage, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
Rom.9:11 - Rom.9:13 (NKJ)
11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls),12 it was said to her, "The older shall serve the younger."13 As it is written, "Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated."
Rom.9:16 - Rom.9:16 (NKJ)
16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.
1Cor.1:27 - 1Cor.1:29 (NKJ)
27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty;28 and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are,29 that no flesh should glory in His presence.
2Tim.1:9 - 2Tim.1:9 (NKJ)
9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,
Overwhelming, isn't it?
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Benedicta00
Well-Known Member
In saying what? That te elect are the ones who are saved? Back up and point out to me where it says hat elect are chosen by God and the reprobates are chosen by God and neither side has any real say in the matter. Show me the verse that specifically teaches irresistible grace, that a person once regenerated will not turn away from God, can you do that?
No one disagrees that these verse refers to the elect who was chosen but nothing in here says that God arbitrary chooses some while not bothering with others. Where is that verse located at?
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I'm new here, but I would like to offer my 2 cents.
We as humans do have a choice. If we didn't, you would not see the verse stating that we can fall away from God's grace. A person would fall away from grace by the choices he/she makes. If we did not have a choice we would all be believers because of the bible. Some people believe it, some don't. There would be no atheists.
We choose whether or not we believe in God. Ultimately it is God's grace and mercy that grants us the key to heaven.
What about the verse that goes something like this:
Faith without works is dead, just as works without faith is dead.
I apologize I don't have my bible close to me.
This to me says that we have to make the choice to provide both in order to be seen as followers of Christ. That would be a choice.
Just a thought, gotta go to bed. Thanks for letting me ramble.
We as humans do have a choice. If we didn't, you would not see the verse stating that we can fall away from God's grace. A person would fall away from grace by the choices he/she makes. If we did not have a choice we would all be believers because of the bible. Some people believe it, some don't. There would be no atheists.
We choose whether or not we believe in God. Ultimately it is God's grace and mercy that grants us the key to heaven.
What about the verse that goes something like this:
Faith without works is dead, just as works without faith is dead.
I apologize I don't have my bible close to me.
This to me says that we have to make the choice to provide both in order to be seen as followers of Christ. That would be a choice.
Just a thought, gotta go to bed. Thanks for letting me ramble.
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