Predatory Christianity

[levi501]

I believe it's immoral for any parent to represent something as true/fact when it can't be demonstated as such.
This encompasses representing anything supernatural as more than just a belief.

 

[MoonLancer]

Anyone who exploits someone who is in such a weaker position and forces something on someone like that, is wrong.

if only Christians could have had this kind of stance a long time ago.

 

[lawtonfogle]

It's unfortunate to say, but it seems to be true, that trials and risks are what we must endure in order to pursue opportunity. While it sucks to be brow-beaten and coerced, what was the alternative? Who else would have hosted this student? Maybe no one? Maybe someone who would sexually or physically abuse her?

Here is an interesting question... would it be better to allow the child to die or to be housed with someone who may physically/sexually abuse them, but not kill them?

Exactly what is worse than death? A few spankings? Being thrown into a wall repeatedly? Fondling? Full out rape?

But really the one solid question that can be distilled past all this subjectivity: what right do I have as an individual to try to change someone else's world view?

Many victims of sexual abuse do not think they are being abused. They think that it is there father (normally, sometimes may be another relative) showing them love, and by taking them away, you destroy the only 'love' they ever get. What right do you have to do that? My emotions say I have as much right to remove them as anyone ever could. My logic says... well this is one case where my emotions are too loud to hear logic, and that scares me more than what the answer may be.

As an ignostic, I don't feel like I have any right of force to coerce anyone else's world view, be it towards or away from god. I try to discuss it openly and honestly and without selfish motivation, because I have no external justification to tell someone things that can't be proven. The only way I can positively sway someone in sincerity is to model my beliefs through my actions. But, as soon as I ascribe some greatness of action to some belief, I have sold a bill of goods.

I highly doubt you are fully a relativist. Of course, saying 'God is real' and saying 'murder is wrong' are on different levels... but don't you feel that you should convince others that murder is wrong?

I am a strong believer that one's world view is a product of their internal character, not the other way around. Necessity will dictate how the world view changes, what ideas and ideologies are accepted, which religion is good and which is bad, etc. And it all balances on personal experience.

I would think that an oversimplified model.

This seems a loaded question. Is it right for anyone to prey on vulnerable children? No. Is it right to spread whatever beliefs you like to children? No. Are there beliefs that are worth impressing on children for their actual good? Probably. Is their a single belief that every human across the globe can agree should be impressed upon children? Probably not.

Well of course everyone will not agree, we have insane and evil people. But if we take all the well meaning sane people, do you think you would find any who advocate things like teaching a child to believe they should be raped? I would hope not... though my faith in humanity is not strong enough for me to really doubt it... but can we really call those people 'well meaning' and/or 'sane'... and is not calling them such 'begging the question'?

Atheist is not a type of person. I often say that atheism is one fruit on the end of one branch of a tree whos roots are (hopefully) skepticism and rigorous intellectual honesty. Sometimes atheism is rows of thorns on a cactus in which evangelistic birds would otherwise peck and roost.


When I was a teenager, a gay youth minister had sex with a 17 year old. Its no more to the point that he was a minister than that he was gay. Predators will pursue opportunities regardless of their apparent affiliation. You can't really judge someones character by the label they claim.

Was it rape? Because 17 year olds are within a year of being legal, and that year is more arbitrary than meaningful.

Of course, regardless, the point he is gay is no more/less important than he is a minister.

 

[EvangelicalChristian]

if only Christians could have had this kind of stance a long time ago.

Or Muslims, or Hindu's, or ..... It's not a quality of Christianity, it's a quality of humanity.

 

[Isambard]

Or Muslims, or Hindu's, or ..... It's not a quality of Christianity, it's a quality of humanity.

I dunno, buddhists seem to have had this quality .

 

[flicka]

A little off topic but along the same lines; When I was in high school back in the 70's I had a friend who desperately wanted to go to Mexico as an exchange student, and was selected based on an essay contest. Her parents wouldn't let her because the organization couldn't guarantee she would be placed in a Baptist home.

 

[MoonLancer]

With that said any child living in my home will obey my rules, which would in this case include mandatory Church attendance, participation in Bible Study and Prayer.

or else? yowza!

 

[MoonLancer]

Anyone who exploits someone who is in such a weaker position and forces something on someone like that, is wrong.

if only Christians could have had this kind of stance a long time ago.

Or Muslims, or Hindu's, or ..... It's not a quality of Christianity, it's a quality of humanity.

damn straight its not a quality of christianity. secular reason for the win.

 

[Verv]

if only Christians could have had this kind of stance a long time ago.

If Christians could be perfect in their faith to Christ, and proper in all of their actions, it would be... Really astounding.

 

[flicka]

One question. Did the girl have the ability to return home whenever she so chose? With that said any child living in my home will obey my rules, which would in this case include mandatory Church attendance, participation in Bible Study and Prayer.

I would surely hope you let any child know that before they got there.

PS. You don't force someone to pray to something they don't believe it. Even God doesn't like that.

 

[JGG]

In response to the OP: I have an aunt who writes me two or three times a year, essentially begging me to convert to Christianity. She goes on about how it "pains her soul" and how it injures her to see me and my son "spiritually corrupted." She describes her weeping, and sorrow and great length, and even sent me a vial of holy water (I assume from Peter Popoff) once.

Truth be told, I never really cared for this aunt very much, and stopped replying about 4 years ago. I did my best to explain why it was likely never going to happen, and how she was not exactly pushing me in her desired direction. I still get letters every few months though, all with the same tearful theme.

 

[StarCannon]

So I ask you, is it right for Christians to prey upon vulnerable children to spread their beliefs?

No. Children should not be forced into doctrines that destroy the soul.

Is it right for anyone to prey on vulnerable children to spread their beliefs?

No. Does that really require an explanation? Forcing these religions onto children produces terrible human beings.

Do you think Atheists prey upon children?

Not really. They pretty just explain the world as they see it, which isn't so far off.

Do you think Gays prey upon children?

... Yes? No? As much as other humans do, yes. Loaded question there.

 

[Inviolable]

Thank you for your response, would you mind answering the other questions as well?

Yes I would.
How about you address the post I made and I'll think about answering those questions when I see that you're capable of a rational OP.

 

[marksman007]

The original question is irrelevant for the simple reason that it is implying because this family put pressure on this girl, that it is happening all the time. It is just an attempt at christian bashing to satisfy a damaged ego.

Until you can provide evidence of wholesale abuse by christians in this way, your credibility is nil.

Secondly, your biase is evident by the fact that you say atheists don't prey on children. Of course they do in the classroom inasmuch only evolution a theory that has not been proven is forced down children's throats as if it is fact.

Their abuse is even more evident when teachers are not allowed to let children make up their own mind by presenting evolution and creation science. This is dangerous for some children as there is anecdotal evidence that it causes suicide. If you have no beginning and no end the bit in between is a bit of a waste of time. So fragile children see no point in continuing to live when the pressure is too much for them. When life is depressing and pointless, suicide is the logical outcome because death brings relief according to atheistic evolution.

Christian young people rarely suicide because they know their origins, they know they have a purpose for living and they know that when they die, it is only the beginning of eternity.

Third, your claim that homos don't pray on children is complete rubbish as all you have presented as evidence is yourself and a few friends. Well, I will wipe out your contention by saying that I HEARD a homosexual, William Allen say in a forum that he had sex with over 2,000 boys.

Obviously someone reported him to the police as he was arrested a few days later and committed suicide before he came to trial. Your claim is cancelled out by my claim.

 

[JGG]

The original question is irrelevant for the simple reason that it is implying because this family put pressure on this girl, that it is happening all the time. It is just an attempt at christian bashing to satisfy a damaged ego.

Until you can provide evidence of wholesale abuse by christians in this way, your credibility is nil.

Secondly, your biase is evident by the fact that you say atheists don't prey on children. Of course they do in the classroom inasmuch only evolution a theory that has not been proven is forced down children's throats as if it is fact.

Their abuse is even more evident when teachers are not allowed to let children make up their own mind by presenting evolution and creation science. This is dangerous for some children as there is anecdotal evidence that it causes suicide. If you have no beginning and no end the bit in between is a bit of a waste of time. So fragile children see no point in continuing to live when the pressure is too much for them. When life is depressing and pointless, suicide is the logical outcome because death brings relief according to atheistic evolution.

Christian young people rarely suicide because they know their origins, they know they have a purpose for living and they know that when they die, it is only the beginning of eternity.

Third, your claim that homos don't pray on children is complete rubbish as all you have presented as evidence is yourself and a few friends. Well, I will wipe out your contention by saying that I HEARD a homosexual, William Allen say in a forum that he had sex with over 2,000 boys.

Obviously someone reported him to the police as he was arrested a few days later and committed suicide before he came to trial. Your claim is cancelled out by my claim.

Thanks for that. I can't be bothered to reply to it, but it was fun.

 

[Risen Tree]

Christian young people rarely suicide because they know their origins, they know they have a purpose for living and they know that when they die, it is only the beginning of eternity.

Post proof or retract.

 

[Risen Tree]

One question. Did the girl have the ability to return home whenever she so chose? With that said any child living in my home will obey my rules, which would in this case include mandatory Church attendance, participation in Bible Study and Prayer.

Comments such as these are evidence that parenthood should be a privilege, not a right.

 

[marksman007]

Post proof or retract.

56 years as a a member of the church and as a church historian.

 

[marksman007]

Comments such as these are evidence that parenthood should be a privilege, not a right.

Post proof or retract.

 

[seashale76]

Comments such as these are evidence that parenthood should be a privilege, not a right.

I see your point, but comments such as yours are a dangerous slope.

In my house (I do go to church frequently) any minor under my care that needs direct adult supervision (depends on the age and maturity of said minor) may have to go to church with me when I go (not to indoctrinate them but so as I wouldn't be liable should they do something idiotic or get hurt in my absence). I certainly wouldn't force any bible studies or prayers on anyone though. If they didn't like to go to church, I'd try to arrange something else for them to do that was supervised during that time. ETA- I would differentiate between my own children and other people's children who are in my care. I'd be a bit more- when you're old enough you can do what you like, but for now you're doing things my way- with my own children.

I don't know that I'd ever want an exchange student anyway. I knew a family who had an exchange student from South Korea once. They caught him making long distance phone calls to a porn producer at two in the morning. The boy was trying to sell a porn script. He also had attempted to steal one of their credit cards and had stashed some of their things with his luggage. BTW, they were church goers and didn't make him go to church- they let him do his thing- until his thing clashed big time with their rules, their hospitality, and the rules of the exchange program. Then, they sent him back.