Pre-Trib, Pre-Mil - Satan doesn't know when Christ is returning

[SPF]

This question is for those of you in the camp that believe in a rapture, it can be pre-trib or mid-trib, and that the 1,000 year reign is literal.

Jesus said that nobody knew when He was going to return. So we take that to mean that it could be today, or it could be 20 years from now, or it could still be another 500-2,000 years off, we just don't know.

But what strikes me is that if we don't know, then doesn't that also mean that Satan doesn't know? And if Satan doesn't know when Christ is returning, then that necessarily must mean that Satan doesn't know who the anti-Christ is, right?

I had a professor in college who held an interesting view which I wonder how those of you who hold to rapture would view.

I'm sure you have all memorized II Thessalonians 2 as that is a major passage concerning this. I want to specifically look at verse 7 - For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.

This professor held that the one who restrained the man of lawlessness [the anti-Christ] was actually not the Holy Spirit, nor the Church, which are the standard interpretations - but the angel Michael. We seen in Scripture that Michael is the angel that basically carries out God's will, and Gabriel is more of the messenger.

So the picture he painted looks like this - Satan doesn't know when the end is, he's not privy to that information any more than we are. But his goal is of course the same - keep as many people away from Christ as possible and do as many terrible things as possible.

Thus, Satan influences people, raises people up to do terrible things. So we have a man like Hitler come to power, does bad things, but God looks over at Michael and says, "Not yet", so Michael steps in and the potential anti-Christ is stopped. Someone else comes to power, does terrible things, God looks over at Michael and says "Not yet", and so he is stopped.

But one day, someone will come to power, Michael will glance over at God, and God won't tell Michael to intervene. And viola, you have your anti-Christ.

Thoughts?

 

[Living Soul]

And if Satan doesn't know when Christ is returning, then that necessarily must mean that Christ doesn't know who the anti-Christ is, right?

I'm not sure how you're logically making this jump. Can you explain that little more please?

 

[Dave G.]

Since we are supposing here, we could suppose that since Jesus said even He doesn't know the time or hour but the Father does, that He will always be having angelic intervention till He Himself is told otherwise. Meanwhile, I'd rather not over think things, nor try to rationalize things but just let the spirit world do as they will do anyway.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[SPF]

I'm not sure how you're logically making this jump. Can you explain that little more please?

Meant to say Satan, not Christ.

I'm sure now that Christ is back in Heaven that He most certainly knows when He is returning. It's Satan that doesn't know when Christ is returning, and therefore Satan necessarily cannot know who the anti-Christ is.

 

[Adstar]

This question is for those of you in the camp that believe in a rapture, it can be pre-trib or mid-trib, and that the 1,000 year reign is literal.

Jesus said that nobody knew when He was going to return. So we take that to mean that it could be today, or it could be 20 years from now, or it could still be another 500-2,000 years off, we just don't know.

But what strikes me is that if we don't know, then doesn't that also mean that Satan doesn't know? And if Satan doesn't know when Christ is returning, then that necessarily must mean that Satan doesn't know who the anti-Christ is, right?

I had a professor in college who held an interesting view which I wonder how those of you who hold to rapture would view.

I'm sure you have all memorized II Thessalonians 2 as that is a major passage concerning this. I want to specifically look at verse 7 - For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.

This professor held that the one who restrained the man of lawlessness [the anti-Christ] was actually not the Holy Spirit, nor the Church, which are the standard interpretations - but the angel Michael. We seen in Scripture that Michael is the angel that basically carries out God's will, and Gabriel is more of the messenger.

So the picture he painted looks like this - Satan doesn't know when the end is, he's not privy to that information any more than we are. But his goal is of course the same - keep as many people away from Christ as possible and do as many terrible things as possible.

Thus, Satan influences people, raises people up to do terrible things. So we have a man like Hitler come to power, does bad things, but God looks over at Michael and says, "Not yet", so Michael steps in and the potential anti-Christ is stopped. Someone else comes to power, does terrible things, God looks over at Michael and says "Not yet", and so he is stopped.

But one day, someone will come to power, Michael will glance over at God, and God won't tell Michael to intervene. And viola, you have your anti-Christ.

Thoughts?

I believe in the literal 1000 years reign.. But i do not believe in a Pre-trib or Mid trib Rapture.. I believe in a last trumpet, second coming day Rapture..

The Bible declares that no one knows the our or the day of the return of the LORD Jesus Christ... But the Bible also says that those who are guided by the Holy Spirit in the end days will know the time because Jesus gave us the signs of the times so that we would not be

The passage i quote below shows why verses should not be read in isolation and why doctrines should not be derived from isolated verses.. Reading scripture in context give a much more accurate view of the truth::

1 Thessalonians 5: KJV
1"But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. {2} For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. {3} For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. {4} But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. {5} Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. {6} Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober."

So the above passage says that the Brethern ( Christians ) are not in darkness and the day of the LORD will not overtake ( surprise us ) as a thief.. Meaning that only those in darkness ( false religion ) will be caught unawares and the coming of the LORD will be for them as a thief in the night..

So with the above information you can see that God knowing His time will allow satan to bring about the Anti-Christ in his own time.. For God knows when to allow satan to bring about this final great deception.. ( remove the one who restrains )

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[Living Soul]

Meant to say Satan, not Christ.

I'm sure now that Christ is back in Heaven that He most certainly knows when He is returning. It's Satan that doesn't know when Christ is returning, and therefore Satan necessarily cannot know who the anti-Christ is.

Ah! Now that makes sense, and I absolutely agree with that. Satan teaches his church to rely on their own power and that God does not exist. So everyday there are more and more people falling for Satan's lies and trying to bring themselves up to be the last destroyer of this world.

 

[SPF]

So with the above information you can see that God knowing His time will allow satan to bring about the Anti-Christ in his own time.. For God knows when to allow satan to bring about this final great deception..

So at the very least, Satan doesn't know who the anti-Christ is until it gets really close to the end.

 

[Adstar]

So at the very least, Satan doesn't know who the anti-Christ is until it gets really close to the end.

I would not disagree with that statement...

 

[Sanoy]

Michael does seem to engage in a role that is directly contrasted with earthly kingdoms which we see in Daniel 10:20-21

 

[SeventyOne]

Since he's awaiting to devour the male child in Rev 12, I'd say he does know the time frame, if not the exact time.

 

[SPF]

Since he's awaiting to devour the male child in Rev 12, I'd say he does know the time frame, if not the exact time.

How would he have gotten that knowledge? Did God decide to give him a 15 year range of when it will happen? That seems unlikely.

 

[SeventyOne]

How would he have gotten that knowledge? Did God decide to give him a 15 year range of when it will happen? That seems unlikely.

Because revelation has been given, specifically the book of Revelation, since the time of the resurrection. For people to make the claim that only the Father still knows, is to infer Jesus as a lesser deity than the Father as He would still be in the dark. On the other hand, to claim that Jesus does now know, then it's willful acknowledgement this statement is no longer applicable, "But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father."

 

[SPF]

Because revelation has been given, specifically the book of Revelation, since the time of the resurrection. For people to make the claim that only the Father still knows, is to infer Jesus as a lesser deity than the Father as He would still be in the dark. On the other hand, to claim that Jesus does now know, then it's willful acknowledgement this statement is no longer applicable, "But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father."

obviously Jesus knows, which I even specifically acknowledged earlier. The point of the topic was to discuss whether or not Satan knows who the anti-Christ is. I don't see why he would be able to as I don't see why God would have told Satan when He was planning on returning.

 

[redleghunter]

So the picture he painted looks like this - Satan doesn't know when the end is, he's not privy to that information any more than we are. But his goal is of course the same - keep as many people away from Christ as possible and do as many terrible things as possible.

Thus, Satan influences people, raises people up to do terrible things. So we have a man like Hitler come to power, does bad things, but God looks over at Michael and says, "Not yet", so Michael steps in and the potential anti-Christ is stopped. Someone else comes to power, does terrible things, God looks over at Michael and says "Not yet", and so he is stopped.

But one day, someone will come to power, Michael will glance over at God, and God won't tell Michael to intervene. And viola, you have your anti-Christ.

Thoughts?

I think your professor had a most astute observation. Here's why:

Daniel 10: NASB

"Then behold, a hand touched me and set me trembling on my hands and knees. He said to me, "O Daniel, man of high esteem, understand the words that I am about to tell you and stand upright, for I have now been sent to you." And when he had spoken this word to me, I stood up trembling. Then he said to me, "Do not be afraid, Daniel, for from the first day that you set your heart on understanding this and on humbling yourself before your God, your words were heard, and I have come in response to your words.

Now I have come to give you an understanding of what will happen to your people in the latter days, for the vision pertains to the days yet future. " When he had spoken to me according to these words, I turned my face toward the ground and became speechless. And behold, one who resembled a human being was touching my lips; then I opened my mouth and spoke and said to him who was standing before me, "O my lord, as a result of the vision anguish has come upon me, and I have retained no strength. For how can such a servant of my lord talk with such as my lord? As for me, there remains just now no strength in me, nor has any breath been left in me." Then this one with human appearance touched me again and strengthened me.

He said, "O man of high esteem, do not be afraid. Peace be with you; take courage and be courageous!" Now as soon as he spoke to me, I received strength and said, "May my lord speak, for you have strengthened me." Then he said, "Do you understand why I came to you? But I shall now return to fight against the prince of Persia; so I am going forth, and behold, the prince of Greece is about to come. However, I will tell you what is inscribed in the writing of truth. Yet there is no one who stands firmly with me against these forces except Michael your prince. But the prince of the kingdom of Persia was withstanding me for twenty-one days; then behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left there with the kings of Persia."

Daniel 10 from bible.com

 

[redleghunter]

Since we are supposing here, we could suppose that since Jesus said even He doesn't know the time or hour but the Father does, that He will always be having angelic intervention till He Himself is told otherwise. Meanwhile, I'd rather not over think things, nor try to rationalize things but just let the spirit world do as they will do anyway.

Even though Jesus Christ said this:

Matthew 24:36:
"But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.


I think we should consider the following:

Matthew 28:18:
Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

 

[redleghunter]

So at the very least, Satan doesn't know who the anti-Christ is until it gets really close to the end.

Yes had this in mind when you posted the above:

Revelation 12:12:
Therefore rejoice, you heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has gone down to you! He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short."

 

[Blade]

For me thats speculation.. a huge jump to say its Michael. Whatever who ever.. it has more power then him. And it will be taken out of the way. Then.. what was everywhere.. will be out in the open again.

I agree and duh.. satan has no clue. So with each generation he always has someone in the background waiting.. this in its self is a lol speculation.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm