Praying to Saints

[Longing4Home]

In other words a one time proclamation of Jesus as your Saviour is not enough. You must live a Christian life. There is no "once saved always saved" as the Protestants proclaim.

Really, and what kind of Christian life did the thief/murderer, hung on the cross next to Jesus lead?

Luke 23:39-43 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us. 40But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? 41And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. 42And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. 43And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise

It was his faith, not his works, that saved him. He did what Jesus said to do, confess with your mouth that He is Lord and believe it in your heart.

In Christs service,
Glen

P.S. This also tends to negate the purgatory idea that you have to work off/suffer/ need intersession for/etc. to get out of, because Jesus said "Today shalt thou be with me in paradise" (emphasis mine).

 

[repentant]

Really, and what kind of Christian life did the thief/murderer, hung on the cross next to Jesus lead?

Luke 23:39-43 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us. 40But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? 41And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. 42And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. 43And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise

It was his faith, not his works, that saved him. He did what Jesus said to do, confess with your mouth that He is Lord and believe it in your heart.

In Christs service,
Glen

P.S. This also tends to negate the purgatory idea that you have to work off/suffer/ need intersession for/etc. to get out of, because Jesus said "Today shalt thou be with me in paradise" (emphasis mine).

The thief on the cross, repented, was forgiven by Jesus and then died. He dies immediatley after repenting. Christian life is constant repentence, not just once. He became a Christian once he acknowledge Jesus as teh Savior. He did not have time to lose salvation because he died immediatly after.

If you look at Matthew Jesus that the people on His right will enter eternal life because they fed the poor, clothed the naked, gave water to the thirsty, visited the prisoners etc. And then those on His left, he cast into damnation because they didn't do these things. So obviously works and faith go hand in hand. What it means by you are saved by faith not works, is that works means nothing if you don't have faith in Jesus. If you are atheist but do good deads, the good deads will be to no avail, but with faith, they give you everlasting life.

Also your P.S. has nothing to do with me. The Orthodox Church does not have the doctrine of Purgatory.

 

[repentant]

Each of these verses refers to contacting the dead.



Then why did Jesus continually quote the OT and tell us that not one jot or tittle will fall away?

Exactly contacting the dead through saonces, mediums, sorcery, etc. Not praying to them. Stop taking words for what they are not.


I was making a point that alot of the Laws of the OT, do not apply to Christians. But this is a null point anyway, because the quotes you provided have nothing to do with praying to Saints.

 

[Longing4Home]

So obviously works and faith go hand in hand. What it means by you are saved by faith not works, is that works means nothing if you don't have faith in Jesus. If you are atheist but do good deads, the good deads will be to no avail, but with faith, they give you everlasting life.

What I am saying, and what the bible says, is that works has nothing to do with salvation.


Ephes. 2:8-9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.


Works are a by product of you faith and salvation. For if you are truly saved the works come naturally to one who wishes to be like Christ. They are not required for your salvation.

Also your P.S. has nothing to do with me. The Orthodox Church does not have the doctrine of Purgatory.

This was for my Catholic friends, a thought that I never considered before when making my case against a purgatory.

In Christ,
Glen

 

[repentant]

What I am saying, and what the bible says, is that works has nothing to do with salvation.


Ephes. 2:8-9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.


Works are a by product of you faith and salvation. For if you are truly saved the works come naturally to one who wishes to be like Christ. They are not required for your salvation.




This was for my Catholic friends, a thought that I never considered before when making my case against a purgatory.

In Christ,
Glen

So you say your faith in Jesus, produces works? Maybe, but how are they not required or part of salvation? This statement by Jesus opposes what you say...

Matthew 25:34-46
Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.' "Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?' "The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.' "They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you? "He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

Does it say anywhere that the people who were cast into eternal torment were unbelievers? No it doesn't, notice they call Him Lord.

A one time accepntance of Christ, does not guarantee salvation. You must work for it through Christian acts, lifelong repentance and trying not to sin. It is hard work for the "kingdom of heaven will be taken by force". Not idely sitting by, thinking you are saved. How prideful. You are not saved until Jesus says the words above to you.

Matthew 11:12
"And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force."

Also look at verse 10 from the Ephesians quote you posted..

Ephesians 2: 8, 9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10
"For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

In another words this quote from Paul is saying, that your works are not from you but from God, so you shouldn't boast about it. Please look at more than one sentence, and take the verses in context, then maybe you might actually understand them

 

[Tawny]

I am closing this as it has turned into a debate. The OP has been answered anyway