Praying to Guardian Angels

[christianmomof3]

Psalm 91:11 For He will give His angels charge over you to accompany and defend and preserve you in all your ways.

Matt..18:10 "See that you do not look down on one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven.
​

So is there anything wrong with asking your guardian angel to pray for you, since they are aware of all you do?

YES IT IS VERY VERY WRONG.
For one thing, there is no example anywhere in the Bible of anyone praying to anyone except to God and an example of someone being told not to pray to an idol which was seen as a god, so prayer is only communication with God.
For another thing, the only examples in the Bible of people speaking to angels was when they saw the angels visibly.
For another thing, the angels are servants of the Lord and He commands them and sends them - we do not need to contact them unless they appear visibly before us having been sent by God and the speak to us as seen in the examples given in the Bible. We pray to God - if He wants to send angels to care for us - He will do it. We don't need to try to contact angels ourselves.


Col. 2:18 Let no one defraud you by judging you unworthy of your prize, in self-chosen lowliness and the worship of the angels, dwelling on the things which he has seen, vainly puffed up by his mind set on the flesh,


Hebrews 4:16 Let us therefore come forward with boldness to the throne of grace that we may receive mercy and find grace for timely help.

 

[Thekla]

This prayer is not only asking an angel to forgive sin, but also to protect. First of all, angels can't forgive you of your sins, and second, angels protect you by God's own will, not the angels will. Plus the angels are not protectors of your soul, God is. One should ALWAYS pray to God for forgiveness AND for protection. Give God the glory that is due Him alone!!!!! Does this prayer bother anyone else?

If we sin, and our sin "effects" another, we should not ask for forgiveness ?

The prayer requests forgiveness for offense, just as I ask my husband for forgiveness ...

 

[Joachim]

Yahshua directed us to pray to the Father only. Praying to messengers could lead to messenger worship. Go to your source, the Holy Father.

No one is praying to the messengers. What they are asking for is for the messengers to intercede on their behalf. It is hard to understand because of the dual entendres that exist within English but there actually is a difference between praying to something because it is a deity, and asking something to help intercede with said deity while at no time assigning any value of divinity to the intercessor.

 

[Esta2220]

If we sin, and our sin "effects" another, we should not ask for forgiveness ?

The prayer requests forgiveness for offense, just as I ask my husband for forgiveness ...

Don't you get tired Thekla, of people that keep saying that you and others are worshipping angels or Mary, even after you explain you are only praying (asking) for them to pray to God for you? I sure would if I were you, but you may have more patience than I do.

 

[Esta2220]

On the subject again.

I still don't see it in Scripture, but I see it in the some of the writings of the early church fathers. So it was done in the early church by some anyways.

So I don't know what to think, if they can pray for me or not. I will keep asking God to show me if this is true and keep researching it.
But one thing I am sure of the Orthodoxs and Catholics have a whole lot more truth in there then what I see in the general protestant denominations.

 

[DArceri]

If we sin, and our sin "effects" another, we should not ask for forgiveness ?

The prayer requests forgiveness for offense, just as I ask my husband for forgiveness ...

UGGHHH. Bad analogy again...It doesn't matter if the angel forgives you of your sin. It doesn't affect your relationship with the angel, it only affects your relationship with GOD. If God sends the angel to protect you, you can sin a thousand times and the angel still has to protect you until God withdraws him. God sends the messenger not to forgive sins...But note, it does matter if your husband forgives you of a sin because he has a relationship with you that could go sour. AGAIN, WE ARE NOT SINNING AGAINST THE ANGELS, we are sinning against GOD and your relationship with Him could go sour. This prayer is asking the angel for forgiveness. That's crazy and blasphemous.

 

[Thekla]

UGGHHH. Bad analogy again...It doesn't matter if the angel forgives you of your sin. It doesn't affect your relationship with the angel, it only affects your relationship with GOD. If God sends the angel to protect you, you can sin a thousand times and the angel still has to protect you until God withdraws him. God sends the messenger not to forgive sins...But note, it does matter if your husband forgives you of a sin because he has a relationship with you that could go sour. AGAIN, WE ARE NOT SINNING AGAINST THE ANGELS, we are sinning against GOD and your relationship with Him could go sour. This prayer is asking the angel for forgiveness. That's crazy and blasphemous.

I don't understand ... are you saying I shouldn't ask my husband for forgiveness,

OR

are you claiming that relationship with God excludes all other relationships

OR

do you think that the angels are somehow separated from God and therefore separated from Christ

OR

is it your contention that Christ's "recapitulation" (Paul's term) leaves out heaven, thus we cannot be, though we have relationship with Christ, in relationship with angels

 

[DArceri]

I pray thee good sir, to hearken unto my post.

There are around six different Greek words that are usually translated into English as 'prayer'. These words encompass supplications, interecessions, thanksgiving, etc. Prayer to the saints (and angels) IS NOT WORSHIP! Perhaps this misconception came about from bad translation? At any rate, I Timothy 2:4 upholds the practice of intercession for others, and we are quite cognizant of the fact that Christ's mediation is what makes intercession possible.

HERE'S THE PRAYER IN QUESTION AGAIN:
"O Angel of Christ, holy guardian and protector of my soul and body, forgive me everything wherein I have offended thee every day of my life, and protect me from all influence and temptation of the evil one."

1. The angel is NOT the protector of your soul....That is The Son
2. The angel is not the one being sinned against....That's The Father
3. The angel does not protect you from temptation...That's the Holy Spirit.

Your entire post is a straw man.

NOPE.

BTW, do you pray to the Holy Trinity, or simply in Jesus' name only? Here is a prayer you should look into using. It is a blessing to every Orthodox Christian and is a key part of our daily prayers.

I pray to all three thank you.

 

[DArceri]

I don't understand ... are you saying I shouldn't ask my husband for forgiveness,

OR

are you claiming that relationship with God excludes all other relationships

OR

do you think that the angels are somehow separated from God and therefore separated from Christ

OR

is it your contention that Christ's "recapitulation" (Paul's term) leaves out heaven, thus we cannot be, though we have relationship with Christ, in relationship with angels

Wow...Am I that bad in communicating or are you just writing to argue? Again, your sin against your husband AFFECTS your relationship with him. Thus you need to ask him for foregiveness. NOW, as for sin, your sin affects your relationship with GOD. You need to ask God for forgiveness. The prayer in discussion is asking a guarding angel to forgive you of your sins, any and all temptations, and protection of your soul. THAT'S GOD'S DOMAIN ONLY.

 

[Thekla]

1. The angel is NOT the protector of your soul....That is The Son
2. The angel is not the one being sinned against....That's The Father
3. The angel does not protect you from temptation...That's the Holy Spirit.

All of these things can be done (not in their final sense) by humans as well.

As for angels;

1. when Herod sought the soul of the child Christ, an angel warned Joseph to flee.
2. sin is ultimately against God, but typically involves others as well - there is also the issue of "scandalizing" others; I would be surprised if angels that serve God would not be scandalized by much of the sin that occurs in the world
3. I protect my children from temptation; I can't stop it, but I can try -- and I'm not the Holy Spirit.

 

[Thekla]

Wow...Am I that bad in communicating or are you just writing to argue? Again, your sin against your husband AFFECTS your relationship with him. Thus you need to ask him for foregiveness. NOW, as for sin, your sin affects your relationship with GOD. You need to ask God for forgiveness. The prayer in discussion is asking a guarding angel to forgive you of your sins, any and all temptations, and protection of your soul. THAT'S GOD'S DOMAIN ONLY.

No, I'm not trying to argue -- I'm trying to follow your statements.

As for relationship, can what is holy remain with what is unholy ? Since holy means "set aside", what is holy is dedicated to what is holy - set aside to what is Holy (God) and (as Paul teaches we must be as "agia", set aside) away from what is unholy. An 'oil and water' sort of idea ...
In this sense (though "relationship" is not perhaps like human to human) sin can be understood as "affecting" relationship with what is holy.

 

[DArceri]

All of these things can be done (not in their final sense) by humans as well.

You are not only limited to anything you can do, but are fallible. Something you deem good for a person may actually be harmfull to them. Listen, we can not save anyones soul. Also, your husband may forgive you, but God may not, right? If you have an adulterous afair and your husband forgives you, does that save your soul? Unless God forgives you, your husbands forgiveness is meaningless for your salvation.

As for angels;

1. when Herod sought the soul of the child Christ, an angel warned Joseph to flee.

Because that was what God willed at the time. He could have sent an evil demon into Herod like He did Nebuchannezzar, or struck Herod dead like He did much later.

2. sin is ultimately against God, but typically involves others as well - there is also the issue of "scandalizing" others; I would be surprised if angels that serve God would not be scandalized by much of the sin that occurs in the world.

You are scandalizing God, because He is the one that has made them holy angels, and you spit at the handy work of God.

3. I protect my children from temptation; I can't stop it, but I can try -- and I'm not the Holy Spirit.

Exactly, you cannot protect their souls or even keep them from all temptation. Some parents actually may be the direct cause of their child to rebel against them. You do not have power over their spirit. You can influence it, but that is all. They need God's Spirit to direct them spiritually.

 

[Thekla]

You are not only limited to anything you can do, but are fallible. Something you deem good for a person may actually be harmfull to them. Listen, we can not save anyones soul. Also, your husband may forgive you, but God may not, right? If you have an adulterous afair and your husband forgives you, does that save your soul? Unless God forgives you, your husbands forgiveness is meaningless for your salvation.

I think you might be "reading into" the prayer. No-one that I know of believes that angels can provide salvation. But the angels can "minister to us" as the Lord wills, not unlike Paul ministered to Christians toward the salvation of their souls but could not provide salvation.
God provides help in some instances by angels:
Genesis 24:40 "He replied, 'The LORD, before whom I have walked, will send his angel with you and make your journey a success, so that you can get a wife for my son from my own clan and from my father's family."

Because that was what God willed at the time. He could have sent an evil demon into Herod like He did Nebuchannezzar, or struck Herod dead like He did much later.

An angel "shut the mouth" of the lion to preserve Daniel. Certainly, the Lord commanded this, as He did to the angels who appeared to Lot; Lot did not have to listen. God acts to help as He wills:
Psalm 34:7 "The angel of the LORD encamps around those who fear him,
and he delivers them."
Psalm 91:11 "For he will command his angels concerning you
to guard you in all your ways ..."

You are scandalizing God, because He is the one that has made them holy angels, and you spit at the handy work of God.

Is it scandalizing God to say "thank-you" to those He sends for our assistance ? If Christians said "thank-you" to the apostles, this is scandal ?
If we ask other Christians to pray for us, to help us, this is scandal ?

Exactly, you cannot protect their souls or even keep them from all temptation. Some parents actually may be the direct cause of their child to rebel against them. You do not have power over their spirit. You can influence it, but that is all. They need God's Spirit to direct them spiritually.

Lot did not "have to" listen to the angels; did they force him to flee ? Did the angel force Abraham to not sacrifice Isaac ?

Who does not need the Holy Spirit toward salvation ? Only God can provide salvation, nor has anyone said otherwise. The point is; is acknowledging how God "works", asking forgiveness of and thanking those who do His will for our benefit wrong ? If this is the case, then certainly one should never ask forgiveness of nor thank others, as this will ensure our damnation.

 

[DArceri]

I think you might be "reading into" the prayer. No-one that I know of believes that angels can provide salvation.

It's pretty straightforward. There is nothing to read into. It says what it says.

God provides help in some instances by angels:
Genesis 24:40 "He replied, 'The LORD, before whom I have walked, will send his angel with you and make your journey a success, so that you can get a wife for my son from my own clan and from my father's family."

Yes, the key words are, 'GOD PROVIDES'. Thank God for His gift of security and protection, don't thank the messenger for God's gift to you. Pray to the one who has the ability to give and take away.

An angel "shut the mouth" of the lion to preserve Daniel. Certainly, the Lord commanded this, as He did to the angels who appeared to Lot; Lot did not have to listen. God acts to help as He wills:

Psalm 34:7 "The angel of the LORD encamps around those who fear him,
and he delivers them."

You understand that this is no ordinary angel. The "Angel of the LORD" here is God the Son Himself, the Word of YHWH, the preincarnate Christ.

Psalm 91:11 "For he will command his angels concerning you
to guard you in all your ways ..."

Yes, we all know angels are sent to protect us....But Thekla, notice that if you continue reading further down, it is the LORD who we call out to and ask for shelter, not the angel:

Psm 91:15,16 When he calls to Me, I will answer him, I will be with him in in trouble; I will rescue him and honor him. With long life I will satisfy him and show him my salvation.

Is it scandalizing God to say "thank-you" to those He sends for our assistance ? If Christians said "thank-you" to the apostles, this is scandal ?
If we ask other Christians to pray for us, to help us, this is scandal ?

Strawman...You twisted what I had to say. I said God is the one being scandalized if we blashemphy His holy creatures.

Lot did not "have to" listen to the angels; did they force him to flee ? Did the angel force Abraham to not sacrifice Isaac ?

I have know clue how your question relates to our discussion....But note again, in this instance, the Angel of the LORD here is God Himself directly speaking to Abraham (not an ordinary angel).

Who does not need the Holy Spirit toward salvation ? Only God can provide salvation, nor has anyone said otherwise.

Like I said before, good intentions do not always lead to good results. Uzzah meant well, but what happened to him Thekla? The prayer words in question is filled with problems, even though you continue to rationalize them away. Do you not see it? Why are you so blind to the offensiveness of the wording of that prayer?

 

[MrPolo]

can you even show me one single verse in all of scripture that shows someone praying to an angel? [/COLOR]

The Jews conversed with the angel in Zechariah 1:11-16 for intercession and God provided mercy at the angel's plea. The Psalmist asks them to join him in prayer too (Ps 148:1-2, Ps 103:20-21).

But regardless of that, Paul asked other Christians to pray for him (Rm 15:30, 2 Thes 3:1), and in post #1 I showed that there are angels watching over our every move. So what is wrong with asking our guardian angels to pray for us, just as Paul asked the Romans and Thessalonians to do for him?

 

[Esta2220]

The Jews conversed with the angel in Zechariah 1:11-16 for intercession and God provided mercy at the angel's plea. The Psalmist asks them to join him in prayer too (Ps 148:1-2, Ps 103:20-21).

But regardless of that, Paul asked other Christians to pray for him (Rm 15:30, 2 Thes 3:1), and in post #1 I showed that there are angels watching over our every move. So what is wrong with asking our guardian angels to pray for us, just as Paul asked the Romans and Thessalonians to do for him?

 

[DArceri]

The Jews conversed with the angel in Zechariah 1:11-16 for intercession and God provided mercy at the angel's plea.

Again, be careful not to mix up an ordinary angel messenger with the messenger called the word of the LORD (God the Son). This angel is the Angel of the Lord I spoke of earlier in this thread. He is no ordinary angel. He is the preincarnate Christ manifesting himself to Zechariah like He did to Moses and Abraham. Note, you will find the Angel of the LORD throughout various parts of the entire O.T. and more often than not, He is the Word manefesting Himself as a messenger (angel).

The Psalmist asks them to join him in prayer too (Ps 148:1-2, Ps 103:20-21).

UUUGGGHHHH....THIS is a song of worship TO GOD....BUT, check out context of the whole Psalm.... It is even asking the moon and stars to praise God. Unless you believe that inanimate objects can sing and praise God, you have to agree with me you are reaching big time.
1] Praise the LORD!
Praise the LORD from the heavens,
praise him in the heights!
[2] Praise him, all his angels,
praise him, all his host!
[3] Praise him, sun and moon,
praise him, all you shining stars!
[4] Praise him, you highest heavens,
and you waters above the heavens!
[5] Let them praise the name of the LORD!
For he commanded and they were created.
LISTEN, This is not an intercessary prayer, for how can a tree or a rock pray for me. It's poetry. Psalmists are known for praising God and acknowledging all He is, and we get many of our great song lyrics from psalmists.. NOW,that being said, without reaching again, show me clearly where a specific prayer request to an angel is made for oneself or for another person.

But regardless of that, Paul asked other Christians to pray for him (Rm 15:30, 2 Thes 3:1), and in post #1 I showed that there are angels watching over our every move. So what is wrong with asking our guardian angels to pray for us, just as Paul asked the Romans and Thessalonians to do for him?

We've been over that one already....Paul asked who to pray for him? An angel or heavenly being??? NO!!!!! Again, show me in scripture where this is done. Show me where Paul did this, show me where any Apostle or any O.T./N.T. writer did this. If all you can muster up is verses from the 'word of the LORD' or 'the angel of the LORD', then all you have is God the Son speaking to His prophets and speaking to His Father.

 

[Tu Es Petrus]

There is no evidence that angels can hear our prayers.....

Sure there is. Luke 15:7: "I tell you that in the same way, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance."

Repentance is a matter of the heart. So not only are those in heaven aware of what we are doing, they are also aware of what is in our hearts.

 

[DArceri]

Sure there is. Luke 15:7: "I tell you that in the same way, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance."

Repentance is a matter of the heart. So not only are those in heaven aware of what we are doing, they are also aware of what is in our hearts.

That is not a verse that is evidence that they can hear our prayers. Yes, those in Heaven are made known or 'aware' of what is going on in our heart because it is God that reveals it to them. But they do not have God's attributes, ie. omniscience, omnipresence,....etc. Our spirit is witnessed to by God's Spirit, (not witnessed to by the created heavenly beings spirits). To say angels know what's in our hearts is giving them the attributes of God Himself.

 

[Tu Es Petrus]

That is not a verse that is evidence that they can hear our prayers. Yes, those in Heaven are made known or 'aware' of what is going on in our heart because it is God that reveals it to them.....

..and that is the same reason they hear our prayers: Because God reveals them to them.

Try not to limit God in a box. That is not a good idea.