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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Praying out in the open?
- Thread starter lorali
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lorali said:
The teaching is not on praying where people can see or hear you, but the motivation behind it. All prayer should be to God, but those Jesus was talking about prayed as a show or display, as if they were saying, "See how righteous I am?" He said they aready have their reward because people see them. It was the same for fasting and charitable giving.
If you pray aloud, with no selfish or prideful motivation, there is nothing with leading corporate prayer. Matthew 6:1-18 gives the context for this.
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Nazaroo
Joseph is still alive! (Gen 45.26)
Actually, this problem, like many created by Matthew's expansion of the 'Sermon on the Plain' in Luke, is best frankly faced and explained by recognizing that much of the content in Matthew's 'opus' version of the speech, is inspired by at least three important motives or goals:
(1) Matthew blends the Lukan version with the Letter of James, in an attempt to create an inclusive syncretistic version acceptable to both followers of Paul (Gentile Christians) and followers of James (Hebrew Christians). The result, while achieving a certain unity does so at a cost.
(3) Matthew wants to create a 'Gospel' that can be publicly read in worship services without incurring the wrath of the Roman authorities, or suspicion and criticism of the Jews who actively oppose Christianity. To do this Matthew:
The question of 'prayer in secret', like cautions against 'taking oaths', are best understood as polemics against Jewish practice and criticism of the Jews who were kicked out the synagogues because they were converts to Christianity. As original teachings of Christ they are likely secondarily derived from original sayings and teachings of Jesus in other contexts.
(1) Matthew blends the Lukan version with the Letter of James, in an attempt to create an inclusive syncretistic version acceptable to both followers of Paul (Gentile Christians) and followers of James (Hebrew Christians). The result, while achieving a certain unity does so at a cost.
a) The plain but inconvenient social gospel in Luke is removed entirely, so as not to embarrass the middle-class converts swelling the ranks of Christianity at the time of its early expansion.
b) Jesus comes off strongly in favour of Old Testament Law, a position taken by Jewish Christians but antithetic to the Spirit of Paul's work.
(2) Matthew gathers various sayings of Jesus sprinkled throughout Luke and gathers them into a single large topical sermon. In fact, Matthew creates Five large sermons out of Jesus' sayings, to mimic the Five books of Moses and present Jesus as the New 'Moses'. Unfortunately, those original contexts are often lost, and Jesus comes off rather stern and harsh, compared to His more natural and realistic portrayal in Luke, Mark and John.b) Jesus comes off strongly in favour of Old Testament Law, a position taken by Jewish Christians but antithetic to the Spirit of Paul's work.
(3) Matthew wants to create a 'Gospel' that can be publicly read in worship services without incurring the wrath of the Roman authorities, or suspicion and criticism of the Jews who actively oppose Christianity. To do this Matthew:
a) removes references to the Roman Occupation, like the name of the 'demon' LEGION (Luke 8:26f/Matt.8:27f) and inserts 'anecdotes' about Jesus actually paying taxes (Matt.16:24).
b) engages in polemics and applogetics against Jewish criticisms, and adds comparisons to Jewish practice, as well as toning down nasty 'parable-stories' like the cursing of the 'Fig Tree' (the symbol of the Southern Kingdom of Judah).
When you add up all these editing procedures, the dramatically different tone and content of Matthew is easily accounted for.b) engages in polemics and applogetics against Jewish criticisms, and adds comparisons to Jewish practice, as well as toning down nasty 'parable-stories' like the cursing of the 'Fig Tree' (the symbol of the Southern Kingdom of Judah).
The question of 'prayer in secret', like cautions against 'taking oaths', are best understood as polemics against Jewish practice and criticism of the Jews who were kicked out the synagogues because they were converts to Christianity. As original teachings of Christ they are likely secondarily derived from original sayings and teachings of Jesus in other contexts.
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Their was this feller was just yapping to himself, and mumbling,So I asked him, who are you talking to? he replied, 'My 2,000 year old invisible flying friend.' I told him, as an adult, he really needed to let go of such childish things. Part of being an adult is living in the real world and not clinging to made-up stories and imaginary friends, no matter how comforting. Then, he happened to mention that his friend was called "Jesus." I told him, "Well, why didn't you say so? That's different kettle of fish entirely, my friend!
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graysparrow
My life is for the kids who have it rough
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lorali said:
Well the answer is in the very verse you are posting. What's wrong is not to pray in the open per se (Jesus did that even at the cross) but to pray in the open 'so everyone can see'
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