Praying in Tongues

Biblicist · May 14, 2017

ByTheSpirit said:
That is rapidly changing brother. There are ever growing numbers of people who not only are filled with the Spirit but are walking in step with him daily.

That's certainly true but my point was being directed to the lack of experience that many had during the Dark period of the Church and by many even centuries into the Reformation.

When we couple this with the often atrocious lack of teaching on the Person and Ministry of the Holy Spirit within the older denominations, we can then begin to understand why so many have been kept from embracing not only the Son but the fullness of the Holy Spirit over the centuries; we should not be surprised that so many still lack a solid understanding of what it means to walk the Christian walk, where many are still running around in circles chasing their own tales, or maybe the tails that follow their denominations and sects.

ByTheSpirit · May 14, 2017

The point of the matter is this, and without any "mudslinging". Scripture makes it VERY clear that praying in Tongues is unfruitful to the mind, no one can understand what is being said without a Spirit Interpretation to go with it.

1 Corinthians 14:2
1 Corinthians 14:9-11
1 Corinthians 14:13-14
1 Corinthians 14:16
1 Corinthians 14:23

Each one of those is a direct reference about speaking in Tongues and shows that speaking in Tongues is an unknown language to even the speaker.

The point is we can learn French, Greek, Latin, Yiddish, Chinese, or however many languages out there and pray in them. It is a neat thing and thank God for the ability to learn a foreign language but that disqualify a such from being a tongue in the biblical sense because...

Drum roll

You know what you are praying.

Scripture is very clear praying in Tongues is to pray in mysteries. So when people say it is just gibberish they are absolutely correct and I am so happy that I can speak gibberish to my Father in heaven through the Spirit on his prompting.

So it is neat that some can pray in a foreign language, but praying in a LEARNED foreign language is not speaking in Tongues.

Biblicist · May 14, 2017

ByTheSpirit said:
Scripture is very clear praying in Tongues is to pray in mysteries. So when people say it is just gibberish they are absolutely correct and I am so happy that I can speak gibberish to my Father in heaven through the Spirit on his prompting.

For those of us who have understood and have chosen to be able to pray in the Spirit (tongues), it can probably be an easy thing to take such an empowerment almost for granted, where we can sometimes forget that this Eschatological foretaste of the future Kingdom of God has tangibly placed us in the Heavenly realms, where as we wait for our future release as the Sons of God, we are at the same time presently sharing in our future Kingdom experience.

Of all the writings that I have come across over the years, the following description by Peter Althouse is still my favourite:

The Pentecost narrative of Acts 2 is an eschatological event, in which the coming of the resurrection Spirit renews the covenantal community in anticipation of the parousia, and tongues is a theophanic sign of divine self-disclosure like that of the burning bush in the calling of Moses and the giving of the Law. As an eschatological foretaste, speaking in tongues is a cry for liberation, a ‘cry of abandonment; which symbolizes the liberating force of the Spirit in breaking down racial, gender and class barriers. Glossolalia embodies an equalizing impulse in leveling all languages and human strivings, pointing to the inauguration of divine justice and mercy in its ''groaning" for the suffering of creation yearning for liberation.

Peter Althouse, Perspectives in Pentecostal Eschatologies (2010)

Edit: Typo

JESUS=G.O.A.T · May 14, 2017

In the end every denomination has its faults. In mine for example apostolic/pentocostol in some churches in this denomination self righteousness is a problem. I beliebe people can be saved in any faith cause I've seen it, and I beliebe too much of an emphasis is placed on denominations. I always tell people look I'm apostolic but my church home just sees apostolic as going by apostles doctrine and the word of god. We should all view our walk in such a way as people did long ago, a relationship with god. Also praying in a language that's learned is great I would do that as well if I knew another one there's no problem with it but of course it's not the same as the biblical speaking in tounques . And again for clarification on tounques there's the gift of tounques that needs an interpreter because it's a message from god for the body, and there's the sign or evidence which is seen by many after getting the Holy Spirit. And continuously see by those when they pray to god or worship him. The reason why none can understand it unless they know the language is because the sign is just communication between the person and god essentially.

Biblicist · May 14, 2017

JESUS=G.O.A.T said:
In the end every denomination has its faults. In mine for example apostolic/pentecostal in some churches in this denomination self righteousness is a problem. I believe people can be saved in any faith cause I've seen it, and I believe too much of an emphasis is placed on denominations. . .

Amen and Amen!
One of the joys of our joint fellowship in Christ through the indwelling presence of the Eschatological Holy Spirit, is that we have not only been made into New Creatures, but as we also share in the Holy Spirit, this makes us each brothers and sisters in Christ.

ByTheSpirit · May 14, 2017

JESUS=G.O.A.T said:
In the end every denomination has its faults. In mine for example apostolic/pentocostol in some churches in this denomination self righteousness is a problem. I beliebe people can be saved in any faith cause I've seen it, and I beliebe too much of an emphasis is placed on denominations.

This is true unfortunately. I grew up in such a church. I will not name the denomination, but it rhythms with taptist, they preached fervently that only those of their opinion would enter Heaven. They went so far as to say scripture such as "be ye not unequally yoked together" literally meant even cross denomination. So as a (fill in the blank) I was not allowed to date a girl from
another Christian denomination because she was not of mine. That is the very definition of a cult. A very well polished one but a cult none the less and it is unfortunate.

Among other beliefs was:

KJV only, they actually preached all other translations were demon inspired and led to damnation for not being the "true word of God".

All spiritual gifts had ceased and those who claimed them were possessed with evil. This was a head scratcher as they didn't believe demon possession existed any longer but Charismatics were demon possessed.

Anyways, yes, denominations can be evil to the core and I truly believe they break Jesus heart, at least the ones that are so stringent to their manmade doctrine that they refuse to accept other view points.

But now that I have the ability to "pray in the Spirit" I do greatly appreciate the ability and try harder and harder to use it often, so I don't lose it per se.

ByTheSpirit · May 14, 2017

So my experience receiving the gift of Tongues is pretty cool and I would like to share it here.

For starters and clarification I do not hold to the idea that Tongues is the only gift that we manifest when receiving the Holy Spirit. I believe it can be any outward manifestation, but Tongues is the norm I do admit.

So I was healed dramatically from depression some 7 years ago in a gas station by none other than Jesus himself and at that instant I received the Holy Spirit. No Tongues were spoken no prophecies given but I was healed and that I believe was the manifestation. Just as was Paul in Acts 9.

So I first attended this Pentecostal church and they convinced me, or tried to anyway, that I did not receive because I didn't speak in Tongues. Two older gentlemen tried pretty forcefully to force Tongues on me, one of which went as far as to say when I didn't manifest that I was stubbornly refusing God's work because of unbelief.

I left that church and went to an Assemblies of God church that I felt led by the Spirit to join. It was here I really began to grow in my faith and experience. The preacher was a very humble man who did the best he could, and he told me that even though the denomination had Tongues as one of the 4 cardinal doctrines, he didn't necessarily agree with it and also agreed with me that I had received the Spirit at my healing. But he encouraged me greatly to seek Tongues as a means of personal edification. He explained it as if we have ate dinner, don't you want desert to go along with dinner? Tongues are the desert. They make the Christian life so much sweeter and pleasant.

So I prayed about it. I prayed hard about it and honestly no matter how hard I tried I could not even fake speaking in Tongues. It was getting pretty frustrating but I didn't give up.

Finally one day in prayer over the topic the Spirit told me:

You will receive what you seek in 7 weeks

I didn't really think about it at the time but Easter had just passed and so all I was left with was this promise and hope. Hope that I held on to but I kept praying.

Now just 2 days before Pentecost Sunday I was alone in my prayer area when all of the sudden the Spirit said now pray. I was kind of taken back by this as I was already praying but suddenly out of no where I just began speaking in Tongues. It was AMAZING! Just as he promised.

It did sound rather gibberish at first and I will confess I failed to appreciate the gift at first for what it truly is, but now there is not a person that can stop me from it nor convince me it is just gibberish nonsense.

As I already stated, I love when people say that because they testify unknowingly of scriptures accuracy.

Biblicist · May 14, 2017

ByTheSpirit said:
So my experience receiving the gift of Tongues is pretty cool and I would like to share it here.

For starters and clarification I do not hold to the idea that Tongues is the only gift that we manifest when receiving the Holy Spirit. I believe it can be any outward manifestation, but Tongues is the norm I do admit.

So I was healed dramatically from depression some 7 years ago in a gas station by none other than Jesus himself and at that instant I received the Holy Spirit. No Tongues were spoken no prophecies given but I was healed and that I believe was the manifestation. Just as was Paul in Acts 9.

So I first attended this Pentecostal church and they convinced me, or tried to anyway, that I did not receive because I didn't speak in Tongues. Two older gentlemen tried pretty forcefully to force Tongues on me, one of which went as far as to say when I didn't manifest that I was stubbornly refusing God's work because of unbelief.

I left that church and went to an Assemblies of God church that I felt led by the Spirit to join. It was here I really began to grow in my faith and experience. The preacher was a very humble man who did the best he could, and he told me that even though the denomination had Tongues as one of the 4 cardinal doctrines, he didn't necessarily agree with it and also agreed with me that I had received the Spirit at my healing. But he encouraged me greatly to seek Tongues as a means of personal edification. He explained it as if we have ate dinner, don't you want desert to go along with dinner? Tongues are the desert. They make the Christian life so much sweeter and pleasant.

So I prayed about it. I prayed hard about it and honestly no matter how hard I tried I could not even fake speaking in Tongues. It was getting pretty frustrating but I didn't give up.

Finally one day in prayer over the topic the Spirit told me:

You will receive what you seek in 7 weeks

I didn't really think about it at the time but Easter had just passed and so all I was left with was this promise and hope. Hope that I held on to but I kept praying.

Now just 2 days before Pentecost Sunday I was alone in my prayer area when all of the sudden the Spirit said now pray. I was kind of taken back by this as I was already praying but suddenly out of no where I just began speaking in Tongues. It was AMAZING! Just as he promised.

It did sound rather gibberish at first and I will confess I failed to appreciate the gift at first for what it truly is, but now there is not a person that can stop me from it nor convince me it is just gibberish nonsense.

As I already stated, I love when people say that because they testify unknowingly of scriptures accuracy.

That's a great testimony.

Alithis · May 14, 2017

ByTheSpirit said:
The point of the matter is this, and without any "mudslinging". Scripture makes it VERY clear that praying in Tongues is unfruitful to the mind, no one can understand what is being said without a Spirit Interpretation to go with it.

1 Corinthians 14:2
1 Corinthians 14:9-11
1 Corinthians 14:13-14
1 Corinthians 14:16
1 Corinthians 14:23

Each one of those is a direct reference about speaking in Tongues and shows that speaking in Tongues is an unknown language to even the speaker.

The point is we can learn French, Greek, Latin, Yiddish, Chinese, or however many languages out there and pray in them. It is a neat thing and thank God for the ability to learn a foreign language but that disqualify a such from being a tongue in the biblical sense because...

Drum roll

You know what you are praying.

Scripture is very clear praying in Tongues is to pray in mysteries. So when people say it is just gibberish they are absolutely correct and I am so happy that I can speak gibberish to my Father in heaven through the Spirit on his prompting.

So it is neat that some can pray in a foreign language, but praying in a LEARNED foreign language is not speaking in Tongues.

Well said

Alithis · May 14, 2017

ByTheSpirit said:
So my experience receiving the gift of Tongues is pretty cool and I would like to share it here.

For starters and clarification I do not hold to the idea that Tongues is the only gift that we manifest when receiving the Holy Spirit. I believe it can be any outward manifestation, but Tongues is the norm I do admit.

So I was healed dramatically from depression some 7 years ago in a gas station by none other than Jesus himself and at that instant I received the Holy Spirit. No Tongues were spoken no prophecies given but I was healed and that I believe was the manifestation. Just as was Paul in Acts 9.

So I first attended this Pentecostal church and they convinced me, or tried to anyway, that I did not receive because I didn't speak in Tongues. Two older gentlemen tried pretty forcefully to force Tongues on me, one of which went as far as to say when I didn't manifest that I was stubbornly refusing God's work because of unbelief.

I left that church and went to an Assemblies of God church that I felt led by the Spirit to join. It was here I really began to grow in my faith and experience. The preacher was a very humble man who did the best he could, and he told me that even though the denomination had Tongues as one of the 4 cardinal doctrines, he didn't necessarily agree with it and also agreed with me that I had received the Spirit at my healing. But he encouraged me greatly to seek Tongues as a means of personal edification. He explained it as if we have ate dinner, don't you want desert to go along with dinner? Tongues are the desert. They make the Christian life so much sweeter and pleasant.

So I prayed about it. I prayed hard about it and honestly no matter how hard I tried I could not even fake speaking in Tongues. It was getting pretty frustrating but I didn't give up.

Finally one day in prayer over the topic the Spirit told me:

You will receive what you seek in 7 weeks

I didn't really think about it at the time but Easter had just passed and so all I was left with was this promise and hope. Hope that I held on to but I kept praying.

Now just 2 days before Pentecost Sunday I was alone in my prayer area when all of the sudden the Spirit said now pray. I was kind of taken back by this as I was already praying but suddenly out of no where I just began speaking in Tongues. It was AMAZING! Just as he promised.

It did sound rather gibberish at first and I will confess I failed to appreciate the gift at first for what it truly is, but now there is not a person that can stop me from it nor convince me it is just gibberish nonsense.

As I already stated, I love when people say that because they testify unknowingly of scriptures accuracy.

Great testimony
The thing about people speaking in tongues is ..it is the Evidence ... That they are filled with the holy Spirit.
But evidence to whom ...
?
Themselves? ..I think not..but to Others.
And I agree that all who truly have the holyspirit can do so.
I have seen mindsets renewed and tongue s flow.
Demons cast out (of believers)and then..tongues flowed.
Misconceptions corrected and then tongues flowed.
Unforgivness repented of..and then tongues flowed.
The testimonies are endless in both variation and sameness.

And because it's fresh and exciting..last night at a mini kickstart seminar here in the Philippines (it's an equipping seminar) a guy who has never prayed for the baptismof the holy spirit ,for another ,did so to a 13 yr old girl who asked.she immediately shook and filled and spoke strongly in tongues.
15 mins later she prayed for another of her own age and that girl also began to speak in tongues...people also manifested demons as these 13 to 15yr olds laid hands on and prayed as an action of faith.and people were set free and healed and we filled a rubber pool and 3 were baptized in water.and at every step it is the New people being trained to do this So they are equipped in HOW..

FreeinChrist · May 15, 2017

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ByTheSpirit · Jun 2, 2017

Wow that is a lot to digest. I have a feeling you are here only to debate your view on the matter so allow me to give a rebuttal and then I will ask you to honor the forum rules.

First off let's see what the scripture has to say about this and discuss what is "speaking in Tongues.

First off it is a multifaceted gift.

A) It is a personal gift for each believer (prayer language).

Romans 8:26-27
Jude 1:20
1 Corinthians 14:2

B) It is a gift for the whole church (corporate use)

1 Corinthians 14:5-19

So what else does scripture teach about the gift of tongues?

A) That we should not forbid its use!
1 Corinthians 14:39

B) That we can all operate in it in a corporate setting, in an appropriate manner.
1 Corinthians 14:5
1 Corinthians 14:40
1 Corinthians 14:26-28

C) That believers will speak in new tongues!
Mark 16:17

D) Tongues is the evidence of receiving the Holy Spirit.
Acts 10:44-46
Acts 19:6

Now to get to your grievances.
1-Those gifts were all given to build up the church and will continue until "the perfect comes". That Tongues is listed last makes it no less significant or necessary than the others. Using this logic, Pastors/Teachers are least important in the church from Ephesians 4:11 1 Corinthians 13:10

2-God rewards those who diligently seek him!
Hebrews 11:6
Psalms 105:4

3- There can be some deception amongst churches in the practice sure. I am not here to defend every church that preaches their version of the gift, just as I am sure you have no interest defending some variation of the truth either. But the truth still exists.

Romans 5:5 The Spirit is poured out into our hearts
Matthew 12:34 Out of our heart, the mouth speaks

4- Jesus said if we ask God for something good we will NEVER get something bad
Luke 11:9-13

5- Tongues are a sign yes, a sign of receiving the Holy Spirit Acts 10:44-46

6- Not true, the gifts will all continue until the Day Jesus returns to earth
1 Corinthians 1:7

7- Let's stick to what God says about the gift(s) not what some slanted view on history does.

8- Timing of the rapture is irrelevant to this case. God gives all gifts to build up the church until the day of Christ's return.
1 Corinthians 1:7
1 Corinthians 14:26-28

9- "because we cannot separate members of the Godhead." yet this was a scriptural experience. Read Acts 8 how the Samaritans believed and were baptized yet had not received the Holy Spirit.

10- 1 Corinthians 14:5

11- Acts 10:46 Acts 2:1-11

12-16 I agree with you

17- Already answered this one in another response. Gifts are for building up the church.
1 Corinthians 14:4-5
1 Corinthians 14:12
1 Corinthians 14:26-28
Ephesians 4:11-12

18- Ummm you cannot be a Christian without surrendering your will to Jesus...

19- Yes, the last days will be marked with deception. But you have not proven Tongues are deceptful. God never gives his children a bad gift if they ask for something good.
Luke 11:9-13

20- The Baptism of the Holy Spirit is separate from salvation Acts 8:14-17

21- Um I have not met any Charismatic who "embraces" Catholic doctrine. It is wise to not paint all members of a belief group into one corner based on the actions of a few. Should I label all Baptist as hateful because of Westboro Baptist Church? No, that is not Christlike at all.

22- Stick with scripture, not personal feelings

23- Already answered this.

24- Revelations should be tested against scripture.

25- There are a lot of things that can damage or destroy a local church. Hint, most have exactly ZERO Charismatics in them.

26&27- personal interjecture and completely irrelevant for disproving tongues.

It's been fun. @Kiwi Christian @Biblicist @Alithis

ByTheSpirit · Jun 2, 2017

Duplicate sorry

Reminder you must obey forum rules and not debate doctrine if you are not of that faith group.

Biblicist · Jun 2, 2017

ByTheSpirit said:
Wow that is a lot to digest. I have a feeling you are here only to debate your view on the matter so allow me to give a rebuttal and then I will ask you to honor the forum rules.

First off let's see what the scripture has to say about this and discuss what is "speaking in Tongues.

First off it is a multifaceted gift.

A) It is a personal gift for each believer (prayer language).

Romans 8:26-27
Jude 1:20
1 Corinthians 14:2

B) It is a gift for the whole church (corporate use)

1 Corinthians 14:5-19

So what else does scripture teach about the gift of tongues?

A) That we should not forbid its use!
1 Corinthians 14:39

B) That we can all operate in it in a corporate setting, in an appropriate manner.
1 Corinthians 14:5
1 Corinthians 14:40
1 Corinthians 14:26-28

C) That believers will speak in new tongues!
Mark 16:17

D) Tongues is the evidence of receiving the Holy Spirit.
Acts 10:44-46
Acts 19:6

Now to get to your grievances.
1-Those gifts were all given to build up the church and will continue until "the perfect comes". That Tongues is listed last makes it no less significant or necessary than the others. Using this logic, Pastors/Teachers are least important in the church from Ephesians 4:11 1 Corinthians 13:10

2-God rewards those who diligently seek him!
Hebrews 11:6
Psalms 105:4

3- There can be some deception amongst churches in the practice sure. I am not here to defend every church that preaches their version of the gift, just as I am sure you have no interest defending some variation of the truth either. But the truth still exists.

Romans 5:5 The Spirit is poured out into our hearts
Matthew 12:34 Out of our heart, the mouth speaks

4- Jesus said if we ask God for something good we will NEVER get something bad
Luke 11:9-13

5- Tongues are a sign yes, a sign of receiving the Holy Spirit Acts 10:44-46

6- Not true, the gifts will all continue until the Day Jesus returns to earth
1 Corinthians 1:7

7- Let's stick to what God says about the gift(s) not what some slanted view on history does.

8- Timing of the rapture is irrelevant to this case. God gives all gifts to build up the church until the day of Christ's return.
1 Corinthians 1:7
1 Corinthians 14:26-28

9- "because we cannot separate members of the Godhead." yet this was a scriptural experience. Read Acts 8 how the Samaritans believed and were baptized yet had not received the Holy Spirit.

10- 1 Corinthians 14:5

11- Acts 10:46 Acts 2:1-11

12-16 I agree with you

17- Already answered this one in another response. Gifts are for building up the church.
1 Corinthians 14:4-5
1 Corinthians 14:12
1 Corinthians 14:26-28
Ephesians 4:11-12

18- Ummm you cannot be a Christian without surrendering your will to Jesus...

19- Yes, the last days will be marked with deception. But you have not proven Tongues are deceptful. God never gives his children a bad gift if they ask for something good.
Luke 11:9-13

20- The Baptism of the Holy Spirit is separate from salvation Acts 8:14-17

21- Um I have not met any Charismatic who "embraces" Catholic doctrine. It is wise to not paint all members of a belief group into one corner based on the actions of a few. Should I label all Baptist as hateful because of Westboro Baptist Church? No, that is not Christlike at all.

22- Stick with scripture, not personal feelings

23- Already answered this.

24- Revelations should be tested against scripture.

25- There are a lot of things that can damage or destroy a local church. Hint, most have exactly ZERO Charismatics in them.

26&27- personal interjecture and completely irrelevant for disproving tongues.

It's been fun. @Kiwi Christian @Biblicist @Alithis

Hey, I'm impressed, so someone actually took the time to reply to what was little more than an old rehash of views that most thoughtful cessationists dumped way back in the 1970's.

ByTheSpirit · Jun 2, 2017

Biblicist said:
Hey, I'm impressed, so someone actually took the time to reply to what was little more than an old rehash of views that most thoughtful cessationists dumped way back in the 1970's.

I played along, which I don't think they thought I would. As soon as I saw the post I told my wife I had a feeling this individual was a new member of CF. I hope they learned something

jiminpa · Jun 2, 2017

ByTheSpirit said:
I played along, which I don't think they thought I would. As soon as I saw the post I told my wife I had a feeling this individual was a new member of CF. I hope they learned something

People like that are unwilling to learn, don't care what the Bible actually says, and I'm not so nice to these posers, (you can guess from my history here what I think he is posing as since I can't actually post it).

ByTheSpirit · Jun 2, 2017

jiminpa said:
People like that are unwilling to learn, don't care what the Bible actually says, and I'm not so nice to these posers, (you can guess from my history here what I think he is posing as since I can't actually post it).

It is sad really. People can be so blinded by their doctrine and theology that they completely miss the move of God around them. I hate saying it because here in the CFverse the phrase gets thrown around like water in a bottle, but it really is like the Jews of Jesus time.

They were so certain that they knew the scriptures and understood them. Yet they were so lost that when Jesus became flesh they hadn't the slightest idea who he was. They missed God in the flesh because they loved their doctrine more and were unwilling to even consider they had it wrong.

Truthfrees · Jun 2, 2017

MOD HAT

Posts have been removed for teaching against SF/C beliefs.

Biblicist · Jun 2, 2017

ByTheSpirit said:
It is sad really. People can be so blinded by their doctrine and theology that they completely miss the move of God around them. I hate saying it because here in the CFverse the phrase gets thrown around like water in a bottle, but it really is like the Jews of Jesus time.

They were so certain that they knew the scriptures and understood them. Yet they were so lost that when Jesus became flesh they hadn't the slightest idea who he was. They missed God in the flesh because they loved their doctrine more and were unwilling to even consider they had it wrong.

As much as some of us who are on this forum have for a time experienced the world of the cessationist mindset first hand, where we can at times even understand some of their concerns, I am of the strong opinion that any Believer who has a heart for the Lord will eventually be enabled to break through the shackles of this horrid worldview.

This is why I try to carefully differentiate between those who are either cessationist or hard-core cessationists, where the first category are those who are often this way as a result of poor teaching and peer pressure, but for those who fall into the category of being a hard-core cessationist, this is a particular world that I find terrifying as they differ from the unwitting atheist who often stands against the Godhead through ignorance as the hard-core cessationist essentially makes his stand against the Holy Spirit in particular by choice.

ByTheSpirit · Jun 2, 2017

Biblicist said:
As much as some of us who are on this forum have for a time experienced the world of the cessationist mindset first hand, where we can at times even understand some of their concerns, I am of the strong opinion that any Believer who has a heart for the Lord will eventually be enabled to break through the shackles of this horrid worldview.

This is why I try to carefully differentiate between those who are either cessationist or hard-core cessationists, where the first category are those who are often this way as a result of poor teaching and peer pressure, but for those who fall into the category of being a hard-core cessationist, this is a particular world that I find terrifying as they differ from the unwitting atheist who often stands against the Godhead through ignorance as the hard-core cessationist essentially makes his stand against the Holy Spirit in particular by choice.

I was definitely cessationist from ignorance. God was gracious enough to enlighten me. It is parallel to the Jews. They believed they knew the scriptures and that God only operated in a certain way, yet when they saw the truth they were overjoyed! Paul is a brilliant example of this.

Hardcore cessationist have so shut themselves out of the realities of the Spirit that they really have in essence blasphemed the Spirit. Being unreceptive to his work and even denouncing his work as demonic.

What most of us do not know is if such a declaration comes from the heart or mind. If from the mind, then they can be redeemed. If from the heart, they are lost.

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