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<blockquote data-quote="Kalevalatar" data-source="post: 60104415" data-attributes="member: 116770"><p>Only, you don't believe in that eternal bliss either: you are pretty sure that godly or ungodly, we all end up atoms in the eternal cycle -- in a way, immortal, every single one of us.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I agree with every word here. I, too, believe in justice as a means of societal correction. I don't believe in government-sanctioned murder -- executions, assassination -- because to my mind, they fail to bring real closure, as opposed to the power of forgiveness, reconciliation: victim-offender as well as society-wide, such as the post-conflict reconciliation process in Rwanda. By eliminating the wrong-doer, we would also deny the victims the opportunity to be heard, to testify and to tell their stories, which for many is the first step toward healing and perhaps much more important than revenge. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>In that respect, the Bible is no different from the US Constitution. The original intent cannot be discovered from it with 100% certainty, but a reasonable reconstruction can still be obtained trough careful reading and wide consensus (as opposed to individual interpretations). </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>"Divine justice" as in a person's death? Death will befall on all of us totally regardless whether or not we believe it to be "divine justice". </p><p></p><p>I believe most human belief systems aim to control these "wicked" base human emotions and knee-jerk reactions. Both peoples of faith and people of no-faith use their value systems to treat themselves well, treat others well, and thus contribute to the common good and societal order. Whereas some people abuse their value system by using it as an excuse and justification to do bad, give into their vicious human traits. Human beings have the ability to mistreat their neighbours on purpose for their own enjoyment, and peoples of faith, Christians included, are human beings. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Socially acceptable? Not in my corner of the world, and I have never been one of those supposedly "most" CF-Christians here to deny the Christian-leaning of those who clearly self-identify as Christians. In fact, on a couple of occasions, I have put the "Christian" in the sensationalist headline much in the same way that the US-media sees it necessary to mention the "Muslim" whenever a criminal happens to have whatever connection to Islam or Islamic countries.</p><p></p><p>Of course, your perspective is different. From where I sit and look at the world, American Christians represent a minority among the worldwide Christians.</p><p></p><p>Remember the Norwegian response to the Utøya massacre? How they did not go out with baseball bats to attack Christian establishments, masonic lodges, the Knight Templars, but instead came out en masse like this:</p><p></p><p><img src="http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTs0qxra5kOoX9-g4oIdcxue7uPu-1vs5kbJJkZoEBcQ3rJIuEM" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /> </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Exactly. And Christians across the world are not an alien breed apart.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Kalevalatar, post: 60104415, member: 116770"] Only, you don't believe in that eternal bliss either: you are pretty sure that godly or ungodly, we all end up atoms in the eternal cycle -- in a way, immortal, every single one of us. I agree with every word here. I, too, believe in justice as a means of societal correction. I don't believe in government-sanctioned murder -- executions, assassination -- because to my mind, they fail to bring real closure, as opposed to the power of forgiveness, reconciliation: victim-offender as well as society-wide, such as the post-conflict reconciliation process in Rwanda. By eliminating the wrong-doer, we would also deny the victims the opportunity to be heard, to testify and to tell their stories, which for many is the first step toward healing and perhaps much more important than revenge. In that respect, the Bible is no different from the US Constitution. The original intent cannot be discovered from it with 100% certainty, but a reasonable reconstruction can still be obtained trough careful reading and wide consensus (as opposed to individual interpretations). "Divine justice" as in a person's death? Death will befall on all of us totally regardless whether or not we believe it to be "divine justice". I believe most human belief systems aim to control these "wicked" base human emotions and knee-jerk reactions. Both peoples of faith and people of no-faith use their value systems to treat themselves well, treat others well, and thus contribute to the common good and societal order. Whereas some people abuse their value system by using it as an excuse and justification to do bad, give into their vicious human traits. Human beings have the ability to mistreat their neighbours on purpose for their own enjoyment, and peoples of faith, Christians included, are human beings. Socially acceptable? Not in my corner of the world, and I have never been one of those supposedly "most" CF-Christians here to deny the Christian-leaning of those who clearly self-identify as Christians. In fact, on a couple of occasions, I have put the "Christian" in the sensationalist headline much in the same way that the US-media sees it necessary to mention the "Muslim" whenever a criminal happens to have whatever connection to Islam or Islamic countries. Of course, your perspective is different. From where I sit and look at the world, American Christians represent a minority among the worldwide Christians. Remember the Norwegian response to the Utøya massacre? How they did not go out with baseball bats to attack Christian establishments, masonic lodges, the Knight Templars, but instead came out en masse like this: [IMG]http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTs0qxra5kOoX9-g4oIdcxue7uPu-1vs5kbJJkZoEBcQ3rJIuEM[/IMG] Exactly. And Christians across the world are not an alien breed apart. [/QUOTE]
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