Praying for the Sick

Souldier · Apr 8, 2015

Merlin said:
My bible ( The King James version) says 1Ti 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

Look at the whole sentence. He says to drink a little wine, not a lot, and so we can conclude that he is prescribing it as medicine but not as a replacement for water. Man cannot live on wine alone, he will get liver disease and become drunk often as well.

Merlin · Apr 8, 2015

Souldier said:
Look at the whole sentence. He says to drink a little wine, not a lot, and so we can conclude that he is prescribing it as medicine but not as a replacement for water. Man cannot live on wine alone, he will get liver disease and become drunk often as well.

So, you would rather read between the lines then take the bible at face value, ok

Souldier · Apr 8, 2015

Merlin said:
Of course we do not all need to be healed.
But it is available to all who will accept it.

I don't agree. Again you are putting your faith above others. You are suggesting that those who don't get healed have weak faith because they dont accept it. I think this is a misunderstanding of what we are actually taught in scripture. As i said before, God never premises that we will all be delivered from the sword. Paul was delivered from stoning but Stephan, a spirit filled man, was not delivered. God needed paul to preach, but itt was stephan's time to go i guess. God never promises that we will be delivered by the sword. See Romans 8.

People can kill us in different ways. We dont die by sword alone. We can be fed to lions, killed by sword or gun, and we can die by illness that is caused from our environment too. If a person walks across the street and are struck by a car do they lack faith? No, its just their environment. It was just something that happens in life. We all die sooner or later. Look at illness as a sword, it can be like a weapon. The Japanese died from exposure to radiation after the US dropped a Nuclear bomb on their city. Their descendants suffered those affects as well and it may have shortened their lifespans. We dont know why people get sick and we are not promised to be delivered from the sword, or stonings, or the lions, or sickness either. Read Romans 8 and you will see that we are not promised deliverance from those things. Walking by faith not sight means to look toward heaven. Although our boby is wasting away we walk by faith not sight, we look toward heaven not earth. This does not mean we should not seek healing either through a healer or a doctor but it does mean that if we are not healed then we dont focus on that but instead look toward heaven. The cares of this life can cause us to stumble if we do not look toward heaven instead of earthly things.

I know you mean well, i know you are only following what you think is right. However you are not right. You should not judge those who dont get healed by suggesting that they dont accept healing. Only God knows. And besides that, Frogster already pointed out that sometimes people without faith were healed. So its not a faith thing.

Souldier · Apr 8, 2015

Merlin said:
So, you would rather read between the lines then take the bible at face value, ok

I take the scripture at face value. I understand that walking by faith not sight means exactly what Paul says it means. It doesn't mean more than that. I also look at all scripture, i'm not taking anything out of context and im not failing to observe all scripture. I see Romans 8 and i consider it. I meditate on all that i read and that's why i believe what i do. I don't take one chapter or verse and base understanding on it alone. If i did that then the bible would seem to contradict itself. I however believe the bible is truth, so i look for the answers. I find them too. Rightly dividing the word of truth is difficult sometimes. It takes time, study, prayer and meditation on the things we study. It takes the help of others too who can share their own understanding with us. The truth is there and we can see it if we only believe that its there and if we seek it diligently. We wont see it by listening to some preacher though, because he only has a piece of the puzzle, he can be very helpful but he doesn't know everything, and preachers can be and are wrong at times. If we want to see the complete picture we must seek it for our self. Seek and you will find, that's what the Lord said. Im not always so understanding but i try. We all get things wrong. I do however believe that im right about this healing thing.

Merlin · Apr 8, 2015

Souldier said:
I don't agree. Again you are putting your faith above others. You are suggesting that those who don't get healed have weak faith because they dont accept it. I think this is a misunderstanding of what we are actually taught in scripture. As i said before, God never premises that we will all be delivered from the sword. Paul was delivered from stoning but Stephan, a spirit filled man, was not delivered. God needed paul to preach, but itt was stephan's time to go i guess. God never promises that we will be delivered by the sword. See Romans 8.

People can kill us in different ways. We dont die by sword alone. We can be fed to lions, killed by sword or gun, and we can die by illness that is caused from our environment too. If a person walks across the street and are struck by a car do they lack faith? No, its just their environment. It was just something that happens in life. We all die sooner or later. Look at illness as a sword, it can be like a weapon. The Japanese died from exposure to radiation after the US dropped a Nuclear bomb on their city. Their descendants suffered those affects as well and it may have shortened their lifespans. We dont know why people get sick and we are not promised to be delivered from the sword, or stonings, or the lions, or sickness either. Read Romans 8 and you will see that we are not promised deliverance from those things. Walking by faith not sight means to look toward heaven. Although our boby is wasting away we walk by faith not sight, we look toward heaven not earth. This does not mean we should not seek healing either through a healer or a doctor but it does mean that if we are not healed then we dont focus on that but instead look toward heaven. The cares of this life can cause us to stumble if we do not look toward heaven instead of earthly things.

I know you mean well, i know you are only following what you think is right. However you are not right. You should not judge those who dont get healed by suggesting that they dont accept healing. Only God knows. And besides that, Frogster already pointed out that sometimes people without faith were healed. So its not a faith thing.

I never said your like of healing (if that is an issue) was a faith thing.
I merely pointed out the scriptures that say healing is available.

Souldier · Apr 8, 2015

Messy said:
No you put your focus on Jesus, not on the sickness. You're right, questioning your faith is putting doubt in your mind and it only gets worse. We all received the measure of faith, yet not everyone has learned how to use it. If I focus on what the psychiaters say, what so and so says, I can't do this, I can't do that. my boss says I'm 100% sick. My I might as well quit. But if I focus on what He says about me: by His stripes I am healed, I am set free, I first said that when I felt like crap all the time, I refused to believe this negative stuff, I am happy, hallelujah! Praise God! Now I see it and feel like that. This first worked with a physical thing: my shoulder, so I thought: hey I do that with my soul too.

I dont think thats the case. I think that romans 8 teaches us that we are sheep to the slaughter. We will experience death by the sword. That sword comes in many forms and faith will not deliver us from it. The sword can take the form of an illness. Faith doesnt deliver us but it will get us through it.

Paul was delivered by the stonings he endured but Stephan was not. Stephan was filled with the spirit and had faith. He used that faith to forgive his enemies and look toward heaven. He was walking by faith not sight. Paul didn't get off so easy however. God told paul that he would suffer many things, he said that it was so he could preach the Gospel to the gentiles. We are not promised deliverance from the sword or famine. Read Romans 8 and see what it says about walking in the spirit. See what we are promised and not promised.

Souldier · Apr 8, 2015

Merlin said:
I never said your like of healing (if that is an issue) was a faith thing.
I merely pointed out the scriptures that say healing is available.

Romans 8 teaches otherwise.

Souldier · Apr 8, 2015

Merlin said:
Following the context of what Jesus said

Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Much of that may be symbolic in meaning. It doesn't necessarily mean we can drink poison and not die. However if it is just as it says and not merely symbolic in meaning, then it may also refer to the sings of an apostle which Paul mentioned. Paul teaches us that not all are given the gift of healing or tongues. So we must conclude that we dont quite understand what Jesus is saying in that scripture, however we follow Paul who helps us understand. He teaches that not all have the gift of healing ot tongues. God gives that as he wills and it has nothing to do with how much faith or belief someone has. Its also for the edification of the Church not for ourselves. Again i suggest Romans 8.

Souldier · Apr 8, 2015

Jesus said many things which were symbolic. He said we had to eat his flesh and drink his blood. John said we would be baptized with fire. These are symbolic in meaning.

Merlin · Apr 8, 2015

Souldier said:
I dont think thats the case. I think that romans 8 teaches us that we are sheep to the slaughter. We will experience death by the sword. That sword comes in many forms and faith will not deliver us from it. The sword can take the form of an illness. Faith doesnt deliver us but it will get us through it.

Paul was delivered by the stonings he endured but Stephan was not. Stephan was filled with the spirit and had faith. He used that faith to forgive his enemies and look toward heaven. He was walking by faith not sight. Paul didn't get off so easy however. God told paul that he would suffer many things, he said that it was so he could preach the Gospel to the gentiles. We are not promised deliverance from the sword or famine. Read Romans 8 and see what it says about walking in the spirit. See what we are promised and not promised.

Romans 8 is about the carnal man.
Is that you?

Souldier · Apr 8, 2015

Merlin said:
Romans 8 is about the carnal man.
Is that you?

Its about both carnal and spiritual man. It has alot of spiritual knowledge in it. Its mostly about the spiritual man though

Merlin · Apr 8, 2015

Souldier said:
Much of that may be symbolic in meaning. It doesn't necessarily mean we can drink poison and not die. However if it is just as it says and not merely symbolic in meaning, then it may also refer to the sings of an apostle which Paul mentioned. Paul teaches us that not all are given the gift of healing or tongues. So we must conclude that we dont quite understand what Jesus is saying in that scripture, however we follow Paul who helps us understand. He teaches that not all have the gift of healing ot tongues. God gives that as he wills and it has nothing to do with how much faith or belief someone has. Its also for the edification of the Church not for ourselves. Again i suggest Romans 8.

Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Which are you contending is "symbolic" in meaning?
Verse 16? he that beliveth shall be saved?
or do u believe that the context changes from one verse to the next?
What about psalm 103:3 He healeth all of your diseases?
What about Isaiah 53: 5 By his stripes we are healed?

Merlin · Apr 8, 2015

Souldier said:
Its about both carnal and spiritual man. It has alot of spiritual knowledge in it. Its mostly about the spiritual man though

Yes but not about simply being a mortal man.

Souldier · Apr 8, 2015

Merlin said:
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Which are you contending is "symbolic" in meaning?
Verse 16? he that beliveth shall be saved?
or do u believe that the context changes from one verse to the next?
What about psalm 103:3 He healeth all of your diseases?
What about Isaiah 53: 5 By his stripes we are healed?

How is it that we can drink poison and not die yet we can be killed by the sword in Romans 8, and not to mention many other scriptures refer to faithful followers of Christ getting martyred. Do you think that we can not be martyred by poison? Do think God protects us from poison but not the sword, the lions, stoning and other things? Do you honestly think the scriptures teach us that we cannot be poisoned?

Merlin · Apr 8, 2015

Souldier said:
How is it that we can drink poison and not die yet we can be killed by the sword in Romans 8, and not to mention many other scriptures refer to faithful followers of Christ getting martyred. Do you think that we can not be martyred by poison? Do think God protects us from poison but not the sword, the lions, stoning and other things? Do you honestly think the scriptures teach us that we cannot be poisoned?

So you do believe the context changes from one verse to the next ( reminder that verse numbers are an artificial construct, not in the original writings)

Perhaps it is just that you have not because you ask not?

Souldier · Apr 8, 2015

I don't know if Christ referred only to his apostles or not. Or if this is more symbolic in meaning. But i know that a faithful, spirit filled man can be killed by poison. I dont claim to understand the scripture but i know that i cannot deny the rest of scripture that teaches we are sheep to the slaughter. We will suffer death.

This scripture below may or may not be symbolic of something. This scripture doesn't necessarily teach that the water on earth will become poisoned and kill people. Water is symbolic of something, so perhaps poison is symbolic as well. The 7 headed dragon of Revelation is also symbolic. We probably wont actually see a fiery red dragon with 7 seven heads, or see stars falling from heaven. The beast comes from the sea i think, that's water but that doesn't represent the actual sea.

Revelation 8:11 The name of the star is Wormwood. A third of the waters became wormwood, and many men died from the water, because it was made bitter.

Souldier · Apr 8, 2015

Merlin said:
So you do believe the context changes from one verse to the next ( reminder that verse numbers are an artificial construct, not in the original writings)

Perhaps it is just that you have not because you ask not?

If you think you can survive drinking poison then that's on you. I however think that the scripture is misunderstood. I see no reason to use one of those signs over the other. They are all included together. I cannot pick and choose which signs to believe so i believe them all. I do however know that they may not be understood correctly. So i will not drink poison or tell anyone to drink poison, and i wont tell anyone that if they have faith in Christ that they will be healed or escape death either. I must stick with what is clearly seen and not speculate. Paul teaches us about faith in Romans 8 and i follow that.

Souldier · Apr 8, 2015

Merlin said:
Yes but not about simply being a mortal man.

We are mortal until mortality is swallowed up. Paul teaches us that our bodies are wasting away and we groan wanting to be clothed with immortality. We look toward heaven and not earth. We will die and thats a fact but in heaven we find immortality.

2 Corinthians 5 New King James Version (NKJV)

Assurance of the Resurrection
5 For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, 3 if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. 4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. 5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.

6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. 7 For we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

Souldier · Apr 8, 2015

2 Corinthians 4"6 Therefore we do not lose heart. Even though our outward man is perishing, yet the inward man is being renewed day by day. 17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, is working for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory, 18 while we do not look at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen. For the things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal.

5:6 Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. 18 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

Souldier · Apr 8, 2015

We are new, there is no reason to keep looking at the old.

Praying for the Sick

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