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Certainly she cooperated in our salvation...though we also cooperate in our salvation. We don't save ourselves, but we do cooperate to provide the personal conditions to allow God's salvation. I don't believe we have the same level of participation, as her participation affected all of mankind. Certainly her role is unique. That said, just as I need redemption, the Theotokos also needed redemption.
@ArmyMatt said this in another thread in response to "do Orthodox believe Mary is co-redemptrix":
So we agree
It turns out that it's not as much about the the term then, but rather about the associations attached to the use of it.
“In three respects—as Daughter, as Mother, and as Spouse of God—the Holy Virgin is exalted to a certain equality with the Father, to a certain superiority over the Son, to a certain nearness to the Holy Spirit” (“ The Immaculate Conception,” Malou, Bishop of Brouges).
I actually meant to ask just exactly what is meant by "co-redemptrix?" When I started investigating more deeply, I never got around to that question.So Mary shouldn't be seen as co-redemrix ?
her cooperation and yes to God was/is vital for the salvation of mankind.
It's from her and her alone Christ has his human DNA or nature if you like.
She suffered so much as part of Christ's crucifixion.
Her womb nurtured him for nine months.
How is she not a co-redemrix ?
All is well.I have been very busy at work, which is why I have not posted much lately.
So we agree
It turns out that it's not as much about the the term then, but rather about the associations attached to the use of it.
But if the Virgin Mary's work is not considered on a level with Christ's, then I don't think "co-" is a good way of expressing it.
After all, there are many "helpers" and participants for most of us in our salvation. And her role is most certainly critical, as the Incarnation was necessary and came through her agreement. But ... Still not on a level with Christ.
"Co" seems like Mary is equally the redeemer. She cooperates with Christ's redemption, but isn't the one who redeems us. Does that make sense?
Which quote?To be honest and completely so I consider the quote to be a grave heresy.
As do I. That's where my concern lies in using the term. Perhaps that is why "Co-redemptress" was not made the 5th Marian dogma of the Catholic Church? I don't believe the term is even in the CCC(?). Yet the description and teachings similar to the quote can easily be found in other writings. As we said earlier...context is key - but wording is also very important.To be honest and completely so I consider the quote to be a grave heresy.
“In three respects—as Daughter, as Mother, and as Spouse of God—the Holy Virgin is exalted to a certain equality with the Father, to a certain superiority over the Son, to a certain nearness to the Holy Spirit” (“ The Immaculate Conception,” Malou, Bishop of Brouges).
I think it makes sense....still processing thoughYes.
I'm making use of the term as a venerable way of referring to her.
She said yes on the behalf of all mankind were Eve said no thank you.
Co-redemrix in the sense I use it is more like a priest who sacrifice a lamb and in this picture I'm painting Christ is the lamb.
It's like every mass needs a priest for it to be a valid mass.
I don't know if I make sense?
All here should be understood in the sense of "the fullness of" or "the totality of" (the sense it has in the Greek). It is not, in other words, referring to placing all hope to the exclusion of others as if one had a limited amount of hope to have, but rather it means that since she gave birth to God in the flesh and continues to supplicate before Him on our behalf to this very day, we place the fullness of our hope (a measure of the greatness of our hope) in her as an intercessor before God. The way that we place our full hope in the Theotokos differs qualitatively from how we place our full hope in God insofar as we hope in the Theotokos as intercessor, but we hope in God alone as the source of our renewed life in Him.
I've been reading a bunch of Orthodox prayers to the Theotokos...akathists, canons, etc. to try to understand better.
While doing that, I came across this explanation of "In thee, O Mother of God, I place all my hope; keep me under thy protection". Would you all concur with this explanation?
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?topic=61232.5;wap2
I concur with that explanation. I will add, however that the language is poetic language (metaphorical and not literal) so as to draw out of us a deep sense of humility and neediness for God's saving grace. For an explanation as to why this is so important in Orthodox spirituality, please see the first chapter in "Unseen Warfare".
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