Hi, I was wondering why prayer doesn't work in some cases. For instance if you prayed for someone to not lose their life if they were sick or had some curable disease but lost their life why would god allow that? The person prayed and asked for help yet the person died. Also a question if god is loving and merciful why does he allow death pain suffering in the world when people who are WITH god PRAY to not suffer still suffer. Also a question if a person is praying for someone to die and that person who might die is praying not to die what does god do? I don't understand the way he thinks he lets horrible horrible horrible horrible things go on. He makes me question my faith. What a great guy.
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Prayer.
- Thread starter AguywithQuestions
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If a person, including yourself at this time, is in a middle of a tragedy it is not the right time to be philosophical about tragedies, since Loving, serving, helping listening and spending time with the person is what’s needed.
Do not read further if this is the case and lets us work in Love on getting you through this tragedy.
We all look forward to being in heaven where there is no needy people, no sorrow, no death, and no sin.
This earth is not to be heaven, if we did not need this earth to be the way it is, we could all start out in heaven.
I have experienced the loss of a baby, but I will not say I know what other parent went through.
Is death bad in and of itself?
The same situation which strengths a person faith, will harden another person’s heart, so should God stop providing the message and/or the situation which will soften the accepting heart?
This world is full of tragedies, which can also be viewed as opportunities to help humans fulfill their earthly objective.
We have an earthly objective.
You do ask a good question that everyone asks sometime in their life, so God addresses this question first off with the story of Adam and Eve the third chapter of the book. Adam and Eve had the world you might think you want.
The story of Adam and Eve (Gen 3)(you do not have to believe it is true to get the message) is told very early, because all individuals ask the question: “Why would a truly Loving God not put us all in a Garden type situation?” The story of A&E explains why we are in our situation:
In John 9: 1-7 you have a tragedy (the apostles are asking about a specific tragedy, but they do not know this individual and are thinking in general terms [you need to get into their head]).
Jesus does not say: “this tragedy was caused by: Adam/Eve sinning, Satan, sin, bad luck, God or evil in the world (those have been our answers).”
Jesus does not say: “It was because of the bad that happened”, but does say: “This is for the good that can (and in this case will) happen.”
If you have lived for very long, you have seen good come from some tragedies, but why not all tragedies?
Is someone keeping good from coming from every tragedy?
Everything that is happening in the world right now (disease, natural disasters, and tragedies of all kinds) are not the result of the bad that has happened, but is the result of the GOOD that can happen!
God is quenching His desire to have us all in a Garden type situation to help us fulfill our objective.
Everything starts and ends with the objective;
The objective of humans is to: “Love God (and secondly others) with all your heart, soul, mind, and energy and Love others.” The definition of “Love” is key for it is not instinctive or just emotional but it is Love of your enemies, described by Jesus’ life and Paul in 1 Cor. 13 and by John. It requires a free will moral decision to Love over likely alternatives (the perceived pleasures of sin for a season). The fall was tragic and not God’s desire, but may have been both inevitable and necessary. For all humans since the fall that have come to Love God started out by accepting God’s Love in the form of forgiveness.
Needy people create opportunities to experience, see, accept, express and receive Godly type Love. Everyone needs the full opportunity to accept Godly type Love which may have to be done when the person reaches the bottom like the prodigal son.
The innocent that died as the result of God’s action may not really suffer as far as we know.
There would have to be some benefit for humans to have faith that would help them fulfill their objective, over not needing faith, so what is the benefit:
1. We either have faith in self or we put our trust in God. Self-reliance has to do with our money, country, insurance, family, friends, achievements and pride, while reliance on God is just the opposite and requires putting self aside; going from being perceived independent to being dependent on God.
2. Faith in God is a humbling experience, because it is something that the lowliest person can do and actually maybe more likely to do. You are no better than the lowliest believing person when it comes to faith.
3. Believing God/trusting God comes out of an admitted need for help. We all need help all the time, but might not feel or admit that need strongly until in a tragedy and if we live long enough we will all experience tragedies. Turning to God is an easy act of humility (made easy by tragedies), and we need humility to accept charity. God’s forgiveness of our sins is an act of charity (grace/mercy/Love). “…he that is forgiven much will Love much…” and thus fulfill our earthly objective by just accepting charity.
4. Faith can produce humility, and humility allows one to accept charity, and forgiveness is Charity and forgiveness produces Love.
Did Adam and Eve have faith? Did the Jews that crossed the Red Sea have faith? Is faith needed in heaven? Is our faith the determining factor to our salvation?
Do not read further if this is the case and lets us work in Love on getting you through this tragedy.
We all look forward to being in heaven where there is no needy people, no sorrow, no death, and no sin.
This earth is not to be heaven, if we did not need this earth to be the way it is, we could all start out in heaven.
I have experienced the loss of a baby, but I will not say I know what other parent went through.
Is death bad in and of itself?
The same situation which strengths a person faith, will harden another person’s heart, so should God stop providing the message and/or the situation which will soften the accepting heart?
This world is full of tragedies, which can also be viewed as opportunities to help humans fulfill their earthly objective.
We have an earthly objective.
You do ask a good question that everyone asks sometime in their life, so God addresses this question first off with the story of Adam and Eve the third chapter of the book. Adam and Eve had the world you might think you want.
The story of Adam and Eve (Gen 3)(you do not have to believe it is true to get the message) is told very early, because all individuals ask the question: “Why would a truly Loving God not put us all in a Garden type situation?” The story of A&E explains why we are in our situation:
- God desires that we all be in a Garden type situation, but God quenches His own desire to provide a better situation for us to fulfill our earthly objective.
- Our earthly object is not to “worship God”, “to never/ever sin”, run around free, just don’t sin, or be good. God does not need anything from us, but is just trying to give something to us. God is trying to give us the greatest power in all universes; the power that compels God to do all He does, but that power cannot be forced on us (take it or I torture you) or can it be instinctive to man (robotically programmed in humans). It is a gift from God that is totally undeserved and unconditional (so it is Charity), but man has to accept the gift as it was given. Humans, instinctive to survival, (which is good for man to have) does not help an individual to want to take charity especially if it comes at a huge cost to the giver.
- The gift is Godly type Love which is best defined by Christ’s words and deeds. God will do all he can to help those that are willing to accept His help, fulfill their earthly objective of accepting His Love and growing that Love. Included in “all that God will do and allow to happen” are: Christ going to the cross, satan roaming the earth, sin, hell and tragedies of all kinds.
- First off; death is the way good people get to go home and the way bad people stop doing bad stuff, so death is not “bad” in and of itself.
- It is truly unfortunate and not God’s desire that tragedies have to occur. God has to quench His desire to allow tragedies, for man’s sake to help humans accept Love. People have to see, experience, witness, receive and even give Godly type Love, before they will even understand and desire such a Love. Some even after receiving Godly type Love from an individual just like themselves will not want it or explain it away (justifying in their own mind: the person is just trying to gain respect or earn their way to heaven or they are making up for the bad they have done).
- Everyone on earth is needy, because everyone has hurt others (sinned) and should feel the burden of the sin at least for a while. Their creator is trying to give them Love in the form of forgiveness so they will Love ( the Bible and life teach us: “…he that is forgiven much will Love much…”) If we realize and except forgiveness of an unbelievable huge debt created by our sins, we will automatically receive an unbelievable huge Love (Godly type Love) that is truly ours.
- There are a huge amount of sever tragedies in this world, but they are really opportunities for good people to show, give, experience, grow and witness Godly type Love. With all those tragedies some good people are still not responding, so are more needed? It is not our job to provide tragedies, but to solve, reduce, eliminate all we can, by allowing the Spirit to work through us.
- Scripture tells us the needy will be with us always on this earth. Christ did not “heal” all those that were sick, but used those tragedies around Him to express Godly Love and show us how we are to handle tragedies (serve others with Love). Healing everyone without the witness of Godly type Love being seen in serving individual like any other person would not get other people to accept God’s Love in faith and humility, but we could grow from the experience.
- This world is not our Home and our rest comes later. It is both a privilege and Honor to allow the Holy Spirit to work through us in serving others in this world to best help everyone around us to accept God’s Love (fulfill their objective).
- If you had to find the most Christ Like person in the world today, where would you look?
In John 9: 1-7 you have a tragedy (the apostles are asking about a specific tragedy, but they do not know this individual and are thinking in general terms [you need to get into their head]).
Jesus does not say: “this tragedy was caused by: Adam/Eve sinning, Satan, sin, bad luck, God or evil in the world (those have been our answers).”
Jesus does not say: “It was because of the bad that happened”, but does say: “This is for the good that can (and in this case will) happen.”
If you have lived for very long, you have seen good come from some tragedies, but why not all tragedies?
Is someone keeping good from coming from every tragedy?
Everything that is happening in the world right now (disease, natural disasters, and tragedies of all kinds) are not the result of the bad that has happened, but is the result of the GOOD that can happen!
God is quenching His desire to have us all in a Garden type situation to help us fulfill our objective.
Everything starts and ends with the objective;
The objective of humans is to: “Love God (and secondly others) with all your heart, soul, mind, and energy and Love others.” The definition of “Love” is key for it is not instinctive or just emotional but it is Love of your enemies, described by Jesus’ life and Paul in 1 Cor. 13 and by John. It requires a free will moral decision to Love over likely alternatives (the perceived pleasures of sin for a season). The fall was tragic and not God’s desire, but may have been both inevitable and necessary. For all humans since the fall that have come to Love God started out by accepting God’s Love in the form of forgiveness.
Needy people create opportunities to experience, see, accept, express and receive Godly type Love. Everyone needs the full opportunity to accept Godly type Love which may have to be done when the person reaches the bottom like the prodigal son.
The innocent that died as the result of God’s action may not really suffer as far as we know.
There would have to be some benefit for humans to have faith that would help them fulfill their objective, over not needing faith, so what is the benefit:
1. We either have faith in self or we put our trust in God. Self-reliance has to do with our money, country, insurance, family, friends, achievements and pride, while reliance on God is just the opposite and requires putting self aside; going from being perceived independent to being dependent on God.
2. Faith in God is a humbling experience, because it is something that the lowliest person can do and actually maybe more likely to do. You are no better than the lowliest believing person when it comes to faith.
3. Believing God/trusting God comes out of an admitted need for help. We all need help all the time, but might not feel or admit that need strongly until in a tragedy and if we live long enough we will all experience tragedies. Turning to God is an easy act of humility (made easy by tragedies), and we need humility to accept charity. God’s forgiveness of our sins is an act of charity (grace/mercy/Love). “…he that is forgiven much will Love much…” and thus fulfill our earthly objective by just accepting charity.
4. Faith can produce humility, and humility allows one to accept charity, and forgiveness is Charity and forgiveness produces Love.
Did Adam and Eve have faith? Did the Jews that crossed the Red Sea have faith? Is faith needed in heaven? Is our faith the determining factor to our salvation?
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Disciple of Jesus
I don’t know why some people are allowed to die, but I know that Bible says:
Whoever seeks to save his life loses it, but whoever loses his life preserves it.
Luke 17:33
For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, and whoever will lose his life for my sake will find it. For what will it profit a man, if he gains the whole world, and forfeits his life? Or what will a man give in exchange for his life?
Matt. 16:25-26
…fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. …
Matt. 10:28-31
This life is not meant to last forever. This is just like a lesson where we can learn what good and evil means. Perhaps those who die have learned enough and are ready to graduate to place for righteous, or to place for unrighteous.
It would be good to keep focus on higher matters than earthly matters.
Don't lay up treasures for yourselves on the earth, where moth and rust consume, and where thieves break through and steal; but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust consume, and where thieves don't break through and steal; for where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
Matt. 6:19-21
Even if I don’t believe why God allows something, I believe He is good and whatever He decides is also good, even if I don’t yet know why.
Jesus prayed that he would not have to suffer on the cross. Yet it had to go that way. One reason why I believe it happened was that disciples would know that death is not the end and that they would get the courage to continue preaching the Gospel of Kingdom.
Perhaps there is similar reason in some other sufferings.
However it is also possible that person has really rejected God and is not really with God and then suffering may be because of that.
Actually I believe God doesn’t answer all prayers, just those who are from righteous. And I don’t think righteous person would pray someone to die. But if he would, I believe the righteous prayer would be answered.
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